PC v1.x Developer Diary

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Jost Amman said:
And here we go again with this false assumptions... I'm not a programmer, but even I, after all these years, know that the guys working on graphics are not the same ones that are working on AI. Look, I too am eager to see everything come to fruition, but the reasons this is taking this long are probably not what you're un-educately guessing.

Why are you so inquisitive... were you planning on giving negative comments?  :heh:
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The irony of talking about false assumptions and then calling me uneducated on my area of work lol.

I know they are not the same ones working on AI, you should probably read what I said more carefully. My point is, have you seen any attempts at bandits for over 21 alphas? No, you havent. Instead, you saw systems being reworked countless times, pretty assets being made to blind the actual "uneducated" people of significant work being done and mediocre quest and enemy variants with very few significant things inbetween that don't justify how long each alpha takes to make. I would accept arguments of budget and team size many years ago, but they gained literal many many dozens of millions of dollars since it first appeared on steam.

They became greedy, made greedy choices and lost the love for the game they once cared for. Which I understand the last part, its been too long working on this game that it probably feels like you're moving on ice, no wonder they announced a new project a while back.

Again I don't expect much from a user that defends this game tooth and nail any time criticism surfaces (As if I hate the game lol). This is my take, this is what I see, and there's plenty of evidence around. Sorry to burst your bubble.

 
Riamus said:
No.  By jumping into full release before the game is ready, it just puts a bad taste in my mouth.  I don't like games being released before they are ready. And clearly this game still has things that should be finished before gold.

Also, making/versioning is important.  If they released alpha 1 as gold and said, "Don't worry, we plan to release a lot of updates and new content over then next decade.", do you think that would be just as good as calling them alphas, which they clearly were?  It is one thing to release patches and DLC after gold.  But the game itself should be finished before gold.
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I suppose. It's just I'm used to game devs playing fast and loose with terms like alpha, beta, and live, that I don't put much faith in game versioning. Of course in other sectors there are clearer requirements for versioning software, especially enterprise software, but there's too much salesmanship and too many semi-amateurs in the games sector, and no outside body or customers with fixed expectations. Some players would have been happy to see A16 called 1.0, others like yourself feel it's not done yet, and neither opinion is wrong per se.

I just focus on the content and functionality. Does the game work as advertised? How likely are promised future updates? What's the studio's track record, etc. Versioning doesn't reliably correspond with any of that from game studio to game studio, at least not in my experience.

 
Doomofman said:
"additional zombie stages" So like Feral and Radiated. Maybe mutated? Enraged? I dunno
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Maybe it's talking about adding even lower tiers, like "concerned" (has hand on chin, brow furrowed) or "whimsical" (forward moonwalks at you)  :)

personally "mutated" would be my hope, with another layer of "unique attacks/mutations" vs "a different color than green ferals, has more health obvs". Another thing i was hoping to see some day was "spawn in with missing arm(s)" or gooey holes/parts (like get shot in midsection with shotgun is guys hanging out...or just spawn with guts out, spawn with no eyes, etc.

 
I think the only things on the roadmap itself I dislike are the dlc stuff, and the events. I assume events are like, random events. I personally don't like scripted stuff like that. I assume its like, a zombie horde spawns at this time, or when you go to this location, or simillar, also sounds like bandit groundwork. I hope we go further away from stuff like triggers and untoggleable switches, not lean more into them, but thats just my take.😅

I'm kind of suprised they disabled the comments on the original video. Since they promoted in on social media, it could have been a good place to look for all kinds of different perspectives on the announcement.

 
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Riamus said:
This sounds so much like Microsoft or Sony are forcing them to have a 1.0 release to go along with console release.
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Honestly, I would not be surprised if this were the case. I know from work experience that mobile app marketplaces (like Google and Apple) do that, specifically because versions must be stable enough to support specific hardware.

I'm not sure "forcing" is the right word though. Probably more like "pushing them to do what they were going to do anyway, just sooner."

Even if true, I think it's good news. If nothing else, having a major, stable, non-alpha version is going to make modding the game much simpler. The only real drawback is the price increase to match consoles.

On that note, everyone should tell folks to buy the game next week when it's on sale for dirt cheap.

 
RhinoW said:
The irony of talking about false assumptions and then calling me uneducated on my area of work lol.

I know they are not the same ones working on AI, you should probably read what I said more carefully. My point is, have you seen any attempts at bandits for over 21 alphas? No, you havent. Instead, you saw systems being reworked countless times, pretty assets being made to blind the actual "uneducated" people of significant work being done and mediocre quest and enemy variants with very few significant things inbetween that don't justify how long each alpha takes to make. I would accept arguments of budget and team size many years ago, but they gained literal many many dozens of millions of dollars since it first appeared on steam.

They became greedy, made greedy choices and lost the love for the game they once cared for. Which I understand the last part, its been too long working on this game that it probably feels like you're moving on ice, no wonder they announced a new project a while back.

Again I don't expect much from a user that defends this game tooth and nail any time criticism surfaces (As if I hate the game lol). This is my take, this is what I see, and there's plenty of evidence around. Sorry to burst your bubble.
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No bandits in 21 Alphas?  If I remember correctly the first iteration of bandits were what the modders first used for their modded bandits.

There was also a new version of bandits in testing / development prior to the release of A21.

On the level design side, we talk about their implementation in levels all the time.  I know it sucks having to wait, but can assure you progress is being made.

 
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Laz Man said:
No bandits in 21 Alphas?  If I remember correctly the first iteration of bandits were what the modders first used for their modded bandits.

There was also a new version of bandits in testing / development prior to the release of A21.

On the level design side, we talk about their implementation in levels all the time.  I know it sucks having to wait, but can assure you progress is being made.
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faatal also posted on this forum over a year ago some of the AI work specifically for bandits he was working on such as retreating, taking cover, and flanking. 
 

In addition, perceptive people will see how the outfits and 3rd person view animations for characters are also groundwork for adding bandits. 
 

We’ve also seen bandit models posted on social media. 
 

it’s pretty silly to claim that they haven’t been working on bandits or that they are only going to start work after 1.0. 
 

RhinoW said:
there's plenty of evidence around.
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Exactly. 

 
Laz Man said:
No bandits in 21 Alphas?  If I remember correctly the first iteration of bandits were what the modders first used for their modded bandits.

There was also a new version of bandits in testing / development prior to the release of A21.

On the level design side, we talk about their implementation in levels all the time.  I know it sucks having to wait, but can assure you progress is being made.
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You're talking about game files and dev-only stuff then, unless there have been bandits in the game before A12, I don't recall any update mentioning the addition of bandits. When I said attempts I meant attempts in an update release, similar to sleepers, we all remember how those started out and how they got adjusted over time. It's an alpha, alpha is to build the skeleton of the game.

Skills have been redone countless times, that's what alphas are for, testing and trying out stuff. No one would bat an eye if bandits were just simple ranged targets with a zombie cop behavior and got improved over time, it's part of the iteration process.

People play with janky bandit mods because they just like the idea of enemies besides animals and humans zombies*, even with all the jank and lack of proper support.

 
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I recall, probably a19 or a20 where they said bandits MAY be in by a21 or a22 but then weren't sure if they would be in until gold.  I'm fine with that.  I'd rather have it right than broken and needs fixin'. 

Personally, I'd rather they fix the stupid annoying drone than include bandits.  But, that's just me.  :)

 
RhinoW said:
My point is, have you seen any attempts at bandits for over 21 alphas? No, you havent. Instead, you saw systems being reworked countless times, pretty assets being made to blind the actual "uneducated" people of significant work being done and mediocre quest and enemy variants with very few significant things inbetween that don't justify how long each alpha takes to make.
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RhinoW said:
Skills have been redone countless times, that's what alphas are for, testing and trying out stuff. No one would bat an eye if bandits were just simple ranged targets with a zombie cop behavior and got improved over time, it's part of the iteration process.
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In the first statement you seem to be really dismissive of reworking systems iteratively as distractions from not doing any real work. 
 

In your next post you argue that alpha is precisely for redoing systems and they should have added bandits and redone them many times as needed and nobody would blink an eye. 
 

So which is it?  You criticize them for redoing systems but then state that’s what alphas are for and so they should have added bandits. 
 

For what it’s worth “bandits” aren’t even a system. They are just new enemy types. The systems for bandits would be AI, animations, spawning, reputation, etc which are all systems TFP has been working on. A22 will introduce the animations that you view in other characters such as being able to see them load a gun when they load a gun, move in a crouched position or flat out run among other things. For now these animations will make playing with friends better but it will also make bandits move and animate realistically. 
 

For the record, I also wish bandits had made it in for 1.0.  But I don’t see them as a critical piece of a zombie survival game.  The game has zombies to fight for 1.0 and as long as the quality of that is up to 1.0 standards I think it’s fine to add a new enemy type beyond zombies after 1.0. 

 
Was curious if the new character models would be dropping with 1.0/A22.  That was a little unclear for me since the Wardrobe system was called out for the Q4/Storm's Brewing drop and there is no mention of character overhaul in 1.0.

Thanks!!
Eko

 
RhinoW said:
You're talking about game files and dev-only stuff then, unless there have been bandits in the game before A12, I don't recall any update mentioning the addition of bandits. When I said attempts I meant attempts in an update release, similar to sleepers, we all remember how those started out and how they got adjusted over time. It's an alpha, alpha is to build the skeleton of the game.

Skills have been redone countless times, that's what alphas are for, testing and trying out stuff. No one would bat an eye if bandits were just simple ranged targets with a zombie cop behavior and got improved over time, it's part of the iteration process.

People play with janky bandit mods because they just like the idea of enemies besides animals and humans zombies*, even with all the jank and lack of proper support.
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A16 had bandits

In vanilla tho removed shortly after as their ai were bad and in which tfp have improved for when bandits do make it  

Does some calculating yes a16 is def after a12

 
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so, no bandits for another year.. Q2 2025.... 

not too bothered myself, could take them or leave them. will have to see how deeply they are integrated into the story.... BTW was there a time scale for when the story gets padded out?

 
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