NBornkilla
New member
fun pimp dont listen to this guy nuf said.
PC Traders and Loot need a serious nerf.
- Thread starter Slingblade2040
- Start date
OgreSlayeR
New member
I do think traders need a nerf, but I wouldn't say you shouldn't be able to buy good weapons from them. I would think a better change for them is to limit trader rewards to weapon and tool parts and being able to buy Q5 Steel stuff at a much later game stage. I definitely think you shouldn't have Steel stuff in week 2 for example. Maybe around week 3-4 imo.
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Old Crow
Well-known member
AtomicUs5000
New member
I'm not sure the global achievements show that players are or are not capable of something more difficult. You see the same range of percentages for just about any game on Steam, even if it's an easy and short 20 hour or less game. I'm pretty sure that most developers adding achievements to their games try to make sure that some are easy, some are not, some come early, some come very late. The achievements also do not reflect the retention of players. Plenty of players play for a little bit, then go play something else, then return later. There are a lot of other things to play, let alone real life responsibilities.
Making the game great in the beginning should be of focus since most customers don't put in extreme number of hours. They will get their first impressions and pass on their recommendations. Making the game great beyond that should also be of focus since a large number of these players with extreme hours invested are the streamers and content providers. Their extended gameplay passes on the recommendations repeatedly to a great number (and often growing) of potential customers. Stifling the opinions of one player type to give more attention to the other has its consequences either way.
Making the game great in the beginning should be of focus since most customers don't put in extreme number of hours. They will get their first impressions and pass on their recommendations. Making the game great beyond that should also be of focus since a large number of these players with extreme hours invested are the streamers and content providers. Their extended gameplay passes on the recommendations repeatedly to a great number (and often growing) of potential customers. Stifling the opinions of one player type to give more attention to the other has its consequences either way.
Zerginfestor
New member
You're getting that via quests, right? I didn't speedrun it, managed to get up to T2 before the trader decided to drop through the floorboards and that was that.
pApA^LeGBa
Well-known member
Without even playing further once? How would they know that this part is the most interesting for them if they haven´t even seen a T5 POI from inside or experienced a demolisher on horde night.
I mean you try to tell us here that they know everything about the game, otherwise they wouldn´t know what´s most interesting for them, without playing it properly.
That´s the most riddiculous example of sugarcoating i have ever seen tbh.
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Roland
Moderator
Oh excuse me. Let me rephrase for you.
I think it shows that they restart the game and replay what they think is the most interesting part of the game.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to give affront to your favorite T5 POIs by making an absolute statement about what is actually most interesting….
Not really. I mean, I do quests, but the drop rate for crafting mag bundles on quests is terrible. I think I may have gotten 2 from Tier 1 and Tier 2 quests. Mostly, I loot every single thing I see that may have a book. I prioritize POIs I know have lots of books. I've done this since A17, since the only thing that's really valuable (to me) loot-wise is books.
I also put all my points into Strength and Miner 69'er until I have it maxed out before moving on to other skills/perks, because having good tools is the most important thing in the game for me (because I spend a ton of time mining and building.)
Zerginfestor
New member
Then the difference here is literally just me not getting enough books, because I had maxed out Miner 69'er, but only barely reached Iron tools.
Yep. I run around town looting everyone mailbox I see. Then, when the trader sends me to a new town, I run around that town looting every mailbox I see. Repeat every time I encounter a new town. I often in A20 would have the spear, archery, and clothing book series maxed out on day 1. I consider books to basically be the only worthwhile loot in the game, everything else is incidental, so I go out of my way to get every chance to get a book.
Khalagar
Active member
The more I think on it, the more I do think traders shouldn't be able to give over a t4 version of an item just to make sure you absolutely *can't* power creep and totally ruin a magazine line by getting a t6 steel spear or something when you only halfway through the magazine line, and some of the extra rewards could be more focused on things like resources instead.
My friend that hate mining and grinding resources loved the t1 rewards like 1500 wood etc, but those disappeared and all we get now are t2 iron gloves and such as a reward. I feel like they could even increase crafting costs, but have traders give stuff to help offset the raised costs, like making it take a lot more parts to craft high tier stuff but have traders give parts bundles. Or have traders give duct tape etc.
I also do think the traders should give low tier upgrades as high tier reward. Like if you do a t5 infested to get a big reward, it should offer something like farming or gun bundles etc
My friend that hate mining and grinding resources loved the t1 rewards like 1500 wood etc, but those disappeared and all we get now are t2 iron gloves and such as a reward. I feel like they could even increase crafting costs, but have traders give stuff to help offset the raised costs, like making it take a lot more parts to craft high tier stuff but have traders give parts bundles. Or have traders give duct tape etc.
I also do think the traders should give low tier upgrades as high tier reward. Like if you do a t5 infested to get a big reward, it should offer something like farming or gun bundles etc
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Traders and loot in general do need a review and overhaul/nerf. maybe this is just good RNG but in my current game I'm running a spears build and my very first trader (jen) had 5 spear books for sale so I buy all 5, on day 4 she restocks 5 more spear books so I buy those, on day 7 she restocks with 5 more spear books I'm starting to see a trend here. So on day 7 before my first horde night between jen mailboxes and random quest looting and magazine bundle rewards with 2/5 in the spears skill I have enough books and spear parts to make a tier 3 steel spear, and with the tier 2 25 steel quest rewards I have enough steel to make it as well. Which I do and it makes day 7 horde a non issue even at 32 zombie horde nights, by day 10 with a game stage of like 62 I max out the spear magazines and make a tier 5 steel spear. Oh and I had 7/7 spear books by day 8 so all I do is repeatedly power attack and if I kill just 1 zombie in a grp my stamina is refilled.
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pApA^LeGBa
Well-known member
You just have to defend no matter how valid a point is, right? Having to get personal sounds like desperation tbh.
Who plays games like that? No one. If people play a game more than a few hours they at least take a look at all that it has to offer and THEN maybe deceide to replay what they like most.
99% of the people who didn´t make it to gamestage 50, tried the game and never touched it again. And don´t forget the 500 zombies achievement. Even if you play only the early game over and over again, you will have killed 500 zombies at one point.
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Great idea, but than tell me, why should ppl invest a lot and I mean A LOT of time to run tier 4 and 5 poi's and get the same reward, as running a tier 3 or 4 poi? Money?
I am at day 5 and sitting on over 16.000 dukes because there is nothing wort buying on the item side. XP? I get the same or more XP if I run 2-3 tier 3 poi's instead of one tier 5. Nerving the rewards is the best way to ruin the endgame. Hey lets restart the game, maybe there are mods out there, where I can have fun.
BFT2020
Well-known member
There is a lot you can do. I removed quest rewards and left those as just dukes. I also removed lower quality gear (so only Q6) and boosted the price. But my thought process was that they are in business so why would they be giving away gear for free?
Khalagar
Active member
Better rewards. Would be pretty straight forward to just make it so tier 1 quests only give primitive items of low qulity, tier 2 give better quality, teir 3 give iron items of low quality, tier 4 give better iron, tier 5 give low quality steel etc
They could also have it offer resources instead of dukes or weapons. If a Tier 1 fetch gives you 100 cobble stone that's nice but not that big of a deal for late game. Where as a tier 4 might give you a thousand cobble or 350 cement or something that you actually consider. Worthwhile. A lot of players just don't like grinding resources so if the trader offered up 750 gunpowder as a quest reward sometimes, a lot of people would pick that over a t3 steel sledge
I also personally think bundles are fun just because of the loot box aspect. I think there should be more of those in the offering like a "parts bundle" and "food bundle" etc
Zerginfestor
New member
That's why I did the mathematics based on the players who actually crafted the bedroll and whatnot as the bare minimum, which does alter the % of the other achievements, like 30%-->41% but it's not a huge amount. Would be a good idea though to finally get a strong foundation of what's considered the main playerbase and not a % of people that said "aight, I'm out" the moment they took one look at the game after downloading it.
As I said previously, the steam achievements aren't necessarily indicative of anything players have done. I have almost 2k hours in game, and I don't have the achievement for crafting a bedroll (and I craft 2 at the start of every game.) I have none of the achievements, not even a single point of progress for them. I have no real idea why, and I don't care, I just thought I'd point out that seemingly the tie between what players have actually done and the achievements isn't necessarily that strong.
Edit: I got distracted and forgot to say what I actually came here to post. I feel like trader stock needs to be more tied to trader stage (or whatever it's called.) I haven't done a single quest for Jen, but she sold me a q5 sniper rifle. I feel like that shouldn't be possible.
I'd like to see it such that you much improve a trader's tier before they'll sell you better stuff. And there should be some highly desirable high end things that are exclusive to each particular trader. Give me a reason to do quests for other traders than the one in my starting city. As it is, I have zero incentive to do quests for multiple traders, as not only do I have to start over at tier 1, but dealing with bringing back the loot from a faraway city is such a pain (I think it would be kind of neat if the traders offered a shipping service, i.e., you pay them X amount of dukes, they give you temporary access to a box you can put stuff in, and when you go to any other trader, you can pull that stuff out of the box) that it's just not worth it to spend any extended period of time in a city you don't have a base in.
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Riamus
Well-known member
Trying to look at Steam achievements and determine how many people do something is not going to get you very far. A lot of people buy a game and never open it, potentially for years. This is why your easiest achievements are often around 70-80%. Many others who do start the game will play for an hour or two and then shelf the game because it either isn't what they like or they have other things they want to play and just wanted to take a peek at the game, which is why most games have an even lower percent of people who have completed the first area/chapter/zone, etc. of the game and it steadily goes down from there. None of these players would be active players and so really don't count when trying to debate what active players are doing or not doing in the game. You can probably estimate most achievements at 2-3x what they are to get a good idea of active players, though that's nothing more than a general estimate you can make it basically any Steam game and may not be very accurate.
Regarding the traders, if you don't use Daring Adventurer, I think the traders are fine for what they sell and when they sell it. Of course, I rarely buy anything from traders except what I can't find or craft (e.g. solar). If you put points into DA, you need to accept that they'll sell stuff that will often be better than you can craft. If you don't like that, don't use DA. Quest rewards should relate to the tier of quest you are doing and so a high tier quest should give good quest rewards. I think the rewards in A20 were generally fine. And once the bug is fixed in A21, I think they'll be fine there as well. If you are rushing quests, you're in the same boat as DA... you're going to get better stuff than you can craft. If you're more casual in how you play, you'll be relatively even. That being said, I do think the magazine nerf slowed crafting down way too much to stay even with questing and should be bumped up again. That, or they should just adjust the number of magazines needed to craft things rather than changing the number of magazines you find. You can have magazine numbers be lower without killing crafting by just lowering the number needed to craft things, achieving a balance without needing a ton of magazines. To me, a balance is where you can craft pretty much the same things you find in loot if you quest around 50-70% of your day. If you are pushing quests more than that, then you should expect crafting to be behind and if you're doing less questing, you should expect crafting to be ahead. Those numbers could be adjusted some to fit what others might like but it would still be somewhere around there in order so most people are going to craft at about the same rate they loot.
The one change I'd make to traders is the quantities in their quest rewards. 1500 wood? 800 coal? 10 boiled water? This is too high. Most (not all) resource rewards are too high by 50-75%.
Regarding the traders, if you don't use Daring Adventurer, I think the traders are fine for what they sell and when they sell it. Of course, I rarely buy anything from traders except what I can't find or craft (e.g. solar). If you put points into DA, you need to accept that they'll sell stuff that will often be better than you can craft. If you don't like that, don't use DA. Quest rewards should relate to the tier of quest you are doing and so a high tier quest should give good quest rewards. I think the rewards in A20 were generally fine. And once the bug is fixed in A21, I think they'll be fine there as well. If you are rushing quests, you're in the same boat as DA... you're going to get better stuff than you can craft. If you're more casual in how you play, you'll be relatively even. That being said, I do think the magazine nerf slowed crafting down way too much to stay even with questing and should be bumped up again. That, or they should just adjust the number of magazines needed to craft things rather than changing the number of magazines you find. You can have magazine numbers be lower without killing crafting by just lowering the number needed to craft things, achieving a balance without needing a ton of magazines. To me, a balance is where you can craft pretty much the same things you find in loot if you quest around 50-70% of your day. If you are pushing quests more than that, then you should expect crafting to be behind and if you're doing less questing, you should expect crafting to be ahead. Those numbers could be adjusted some to fit what others might like but it would still be somewhere around there in order so most people are going to craft at about the same rate they loot.
The one change I'd make to traders is the quantities in their quest rewards. 1500 wood? 800 coal? 10 boiled water? This is too high. Most (not all) resource rewards are too high by 50-75%.