PC Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow

[Roland]

Probably because in every game there are those who consider themselves completionists and MUST have all the recipes, skills, etc. themselves.  It's also nice not having to wait until someone in your group logs on to make something if you die and lose it  or to make it for you in the first place.  People have lives that don't revolve around games so the one person who can make that best item might not be on for a couple days.

Well the good news is that you will still find mags of the type that you’ve already completed so you can still gift them and sell them. The bonus drops off but that doesn’t mean you won’t still find them as often as any other title. 
 

As for having to wait for someone to make something you can’t for you, what do people do now? Do people use up skill points to duplicate what teammates have already done just to not have to wait for them to be online?  In our group the high level crafter makes a bunch and sticks them in a chest. 

I do think that the amount of food and drink needed in the game is excessive... especially food.

The problem here is that nobody disclosed how long they’ve modified their days to be. Personally, I think the rate of hunger and dehydration fit best with 40 minute days but are not particularly unbalanced with the default 60 minute days. 
 

Anyone who complains about how much food and water they have to consume daily while playing 120 or longer days isn’t being mindful of how ridiculously easy the game would become if hunger and thirst were dilated to match the time dilation while the player’s ability to move and act and get things done all remains the same. 

 

[Riamus]

Well the good news is that you will still find mags of the type that you’ve already completed so you can still gift them and sell them. The bonus drops off but that doesn’t mean you won’t still find them as often as any other title. 
 

As for having to wait for someone to make something you can’t for you, what do people do now? Do people use up skill points to duplicate what teammates have already done just to not have to wait for them to be online?  In our group the high level crafter makes a bunch and sticks them in a chest. 

The problem here is that nobody disclosed how long they’ve modified their days to be. Personally, I think the rate of hunger and dehydration fit best with 40 minute days but are not particularly unbalanced with the default 60 minute days. 
 

Anyone who complains about how much food and water they have to consume daily while playing 120 or longer days isn’t being mindful of how ridiculously easy the game would become if hunger and thirst were dilated to match the time dilation while the player’s ability to move and act and get things done all remains the same. 

I am not disputing what you say regarding gameplay. As I mentioned, I understand it from a gameplay perspective.  But regardless of the game speed, a day is still 24 hours and people typically aren't eating 10,000 calories a day.  Even in the game, once you start eating even mid level cooked food (50+ food value), you are eating a more realistic amount.  It is only in the early game where it is a crazy amount.

Although I don't suggest making this change, it would have made more sense to have all food, cooked or not, have a realistic or semi realistic food value such that eating a can of salmon would fill you up for at least 6-8 hours and the same for eating spaghetti.  Then you could have the better cooked food offer benefits uncooked food does not - healing, stamina, etc.  Again, I am not suggesting changing this.  It's just a comment on how it would make more sense.  I'm fine with it as is. I just think it's a crazy amount of food early game.

 

[Roland]

It is only in the early game where it is a crazy amount.

You're assuming that all the meat that went into the cook pot came out of the cook pot. I always felt like the early game food preparation (including harvesting) abstracts a lot of waste and plenty of charring that must be scraped off using rudimentary tools and having rudimentary experience with cooking.

eating a can of salmon would fill you up for at least 6-8 hours

As I mentioned, it does fill you up for at least 6-8 hours of game time if you play on the 40-minute days setting. The longer day settings are going to make it feel less true to life because hydration and fullness are on realtime timers so that with 40-minute days you get a meal lasting most of your game day whereas with 120 minute days you'll need as many meals as a hobbit.

 

[Blake_]

Well the good news is that you will still find mags of the type that you’ve already completed so you can still gift them and sell them. The bonus drops off but that doesn’t mean you won’t still find them as often as any other title. 
 

As for having to wait for someone to make something you can’t for you, what do people do now? Do people use up skill points to duplicate what teammates have already done just to not have to wait for them to be online?  In our group the high level crafter makes a bunch and sticks them in a chest. 

The problem here is that nobody disclosed how long they’ve modified their days to be. Personally, I think the rate of hunger and dehydration fit best with 40 minute days but are not particularly unbalanced with the default 60 minute days. 
 

Anyone who complains about how much food and water they have to consume daily while playing 120 or longer days isn’t being mindful of how ridiculously easy the game would become if hunger and thirst were dilated to match the time dilation while the player’s ability to move and act and get things done all remains the same. 

I play with 120 min days, as nights are long and full of terrors, just as I love them. The hunger and thirst rates are nice. Realistic? well.... I eat 3 times a day to the fullest, 4 or 5 with a full workload and not usually walking except for strategic reasons. The trick I use is always staying hungry and thirsty right until the hp-losing threshold, then I eat a bit, which gives me time to find food, and as for water I did always have it full in a20....I gather that will be trickier now in a21, which I LOVE.

I'm an extreme advocate for 240 and 480 min days. Some players can extend their gameplays for thousands of days and a 2 hour horde night is just... yeah, hardcore.

 

[Callum123456789]

I play with 120 min days, as nights are long and full of terrors, just as I love them. The hunger and thirst rates are nice. Realistic? well.... I eat 3 times a day to the fullest, 4 or 5 with a full workload and not usually walking except for strategic reasons. The trick I use is always staying hungry and thirsty right until the hp-losing threshold, then I eat a bit, which gives me time to find food, and as for water I did always have it full in a20....I gather that will be trickier now in a21, which I LOVE.

I'm an extreme advocate for 240 and 480 min days. Some players can extend their gameplays for thousands of days and a 2 hour horde night is just... yeah, hardcore.

if you modify one of the user options settings i forgot where they are but you can have any custom day intervals you like 

 

[Jugom]

Anyone who complains about how much food and water they have to consume daily while playing 120 or longer days isn’t being mindful of how ridiculously easy the game would become if hunger and thirst were dilated to match the time dilation while the player’s ability to move and act and get things done all remains the same.

which is why I still think the dew collectors should produce water based on a fixed irl time (like crops) and not based on game day duration.

 

[Roland]

which is why I still think the dew collectors should produce water based on a fixed irl time (like crops) and not based on game day duration.

What gave you the impression that they don’t? I’m pretty sure every timer in the game is real time based and not game time based. At least I can’t think of one that isn’t. Without looking at the dew collector code I’m 99% certain it is on a real-time timer rather than the water appearing at say 10pm every day.

I remember from one of the recent dev diaries there were talks of a dynamic encounter system is this still planned for sometime?

As far as I know. It is basically the twitch integration system that allows viewers to cause encounters to happen to the streamer. They just need to write a manager that will be able to randomly trigger those events during the game.  Hopefully none of the silly twitch events though…

Of course, this all depends on whether they have time to do it. It is also very possible this game only gets the twitch integration and the next game ends up with the random encounter manager….

 

[Roland]

The trick I use is always staying hungry and thirsty right until the hp-losing threshold, then I eat a bit, which gives me time to find food, and as for water I did always have it full in a20..

This brings up a good point. Some players let their meters fall to the point where they first get penalized and then eat/drink to fill up and they don’t feel like they are having to eat/drink all the time. Others can’t stand to see anything less than a full meter so they are constantly eating to maintain meters at 100%. This is also something people don’t usually disclose when they complain about how often the game requires them to eat and drink. 

I'm an extreme advocate for 240 and 480 min days. Some players can extend their gameplays for thousands of days and a 2 hour horde night is just... yeah, hardcore.

I’m not an extreme advocate for shorter days but I do enjoy doing a playthrough from time to time at 30 or 40 minute days. I love the time pressure and the more realistic representation of how much work I would be able to get done in an actual day. Fewer daily quests are possible and often you get caught in the middle of one at day’s end which makes for a spicy ending and return trip. For that reason I never play at settings longer than the default because of how cheesy it feels to me having so much time to prepare for horde night. 
 

Sure, horde night itself is shorter but in my experience most base designs by experienced players can easily repell a horde whether it last 30 minutes or 2 hours  or 4 hours.  This is especially true if you have given yourself soooooo much extra time to be able to over design your base for the first horde. My horde nights are shorter, true, but I’m also not gorging myself on XP and loot bags like someone who is playing a two hour horde night is. I get fewer rewards and less time to repair and prepare for the next one. 
 

My horde nights are shorter but still exciting and just as it starts to feel a bit monotonous the sun comes up and it ends. 
 

Hmmm…..maybe I am a strong advocate for shorter days.

 

[Callum123456789]

Delete

 

[Jugom]

does this mean people playing 5 minute days will have a lot of water and those playing longer days will have a harder time collecting them?

@Roland if you roll back to when I first asked, schwanz said so. 
maybe it was changed since then?

 

[Gamida]

This brings up a good point. Some players let their meters fall to the point where they first get penalized and then eat/drink to fill up and they don’t feel like they are having to eat/drink [SIZE=14.6px]all the time. Others can’t stand to see anything less than a full meter so they are constantly eating to maintain meters at 100%. This is also something people don’t usually disclose when they complain about how often the game requires them to eat and drink. [/SIZE]

I am one of those who likes to have a full meter as from what I am told stamina is connected to food and water levels and I run alot so like to have my stamina up.

That said I just started on a server to pass some time and my food bar has been low enough (that means at 0 lol )that I have lost health. I don't find it that bad as I can usually find a can of food here and there to get the bar to show again so nothing life threatening.

It is just different.

 

[Lycaon]

I just saw a video about what changes are made in A21:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuTvWxt4hGM

And I have to say: I don't like it at all, waiting for things to actually get better or make any sense. After nearly 10 years you clearly have no idea where you want to go with this game, making weird changes just for the sake of changing anything. I just signed up to tell you this.

 

[RipClaw]

This brings up a good point. Some players let their meters fall to the point where they first get penalized and then eat/drink to fill up and they don’t feel like they are having to eat/drink all the time. Others can’t stand to see anything less than a full meter so they are constantly eating to maintain meters at 100%.

And then there are those who eat only when their stamina is decreased, but they don't fill up, they only eat enough to get rid of the debuff. They also don't take advantage of the fact that they can overeat.
 

 

[Roland]

And then there are those who eat only when their stamina is decreased, but they don't fill up, they only eat enough to get rid of the debuff. They also don't take advantage of the fact that they can overeat.
 

Yes, this too. Any time you are trying to hover the status bar at one point you are going to have to constantly maintain that hover.

@Roland if you roll back to when I first asked, schwanz said so. 
maybe it was changed since then?

hmmm...maybe I better look at the code or test 5 minute days.

 

[zztong]

Others can’t stand to see anything less than a full meter so they are constantly eating to maintain meters at 100%. This is also something people don’t usually disclose when they complain about how often the game requires them to eat and drink.

This suggests to me that some don't understand the meter and/or the meter's UI isn't clear. I know I'd like to see the numbers on the meter.

I have always loaded up on Healing Factor, but several months back I read a number of people saying that makes you hungry faster. I tried to find that in game documentation, but didn't see it as a direct effect.

 

[Riamus]

You're assuming that all the meat that went into the cook pot came out of the cook pot. I always felt like the early game food preparation (including harvesting) abstracts a lot of waste and plenty of charring that must be scraped off using rudimentary tools and having rudimentary experience with cooking.

Yeah, but charred meat, boiled meat and grilled meat all have the same food value IIRC.  Charred, I can see your point. Boiled or grilled? Not really.  And the idea with charred is that the hydration penalty seems to suggest you're eating even the worst of the char, though that's just how I look at it.  Either way, it is a gameplay reason and I'm fine with it. My only reason for commenting on it was to say that it wasn't realistic in the early game compared to the later game.

This brings up a good point. Some players let their meters fall to the point where they first get penalized and then eat/drink to fill up and they don’t feel like they are having to eat/drink all the time. Others can’t stand to see anything less than a full meter so they are constantly eating to maintain meters at 100%. This is also something people don’t usually disclose when they complain about how often the game requires them to eat and drink. 

That brings up another point.  It wasn't until I was probably 40-60 real time into the game when I first noticed the food and drink bars.  Being 1 pixel high at the bottom of the screen the same width of the quick slot bar attached to it makes it very unnoticeable.  It would be helpful to make it 2-3 pixels or so high so it is more easily noticed by new players and easier to see for everyone.  Or make a change to the UI placement similar to a screenshot I saw of a mod that put it at the left near the health and stamina, though that does take up too much screen space, imo.

 

[Roland]

@Roland if you roll back to when I first asked, schwanz said so. 
maybe it was changed since then?

Well I asked and you are 100% right and I was completely wrong. I have to say I am shocked. All of you 120 minute day players are going to have sloooooooooow collectors…lol.

 

[Prydonian]

And then there are those who eat only when their stamina is decreased, but they don't fill up, they only eat enough to get rid of the debuff. They also don't take advantage of the fact that they can overeat.
 

You can overeat?  What effect does that have?

 

[Riamus]

Another thing I was thinking about...

What is the purpose of changing day speed?  Faster days are generally more challenging and longer days are generally easier.  So you change based on difficulty preferences for the most part.  But the food and drink on a real life timer is backwards in terms of this difficulty change.  If you shorten days to have a faster horde schedule and limited time each day to do things, you have an easier time with food and drink. If you lengthen days to give you more time to do things and slower for the horde nights, you have a more difficult time with food and drink.  It works out backwards.  Not that it is ever really difficult.

There are of course other ways to change difficulty and I'm sure people change day length for other reasons, but it's still interesting.

 

[Roland]

Another thing I was thinking about...

What is the purpose of changing day speed?  Faster days are generally more challenging and longer days are generally easier.  So you change based on difficulty preferences for the most part.  But the food and drink on a real life timer is backwards in terms of this difficulty change.  If you shorten days to have a faster horde schedule and limited time each day to do things, you have an easier time with food and drink. If you lengthen days to give you more time to do things and slower for the horde nights, you have a more difficult time with food and drink.  It works out backwards.  Not that it is ever really difficult.

There are of course other ways to change difficulty and I'm sure people change day length for other reasons, but it's still interesting.

I could be wrong again but I think hunger and thirst are not connected to game time. So you have to eat and drink just as often no matter what setting you choose. Of course that is modified by whether you are burning stamina or suffering from a cold climate but the unmodified rate is the same.

You can overeat?  What effect does that have?

Your fullness and hydration bars stick at 100% while a timer counts down from whatever value over 100 your food or drink raised your fullness or hydration. It means that you don't have to wait to eat a stew because you're afraid you'll lose the extra. Just eat it and you get credit for the extra.