PC Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow

[Melange]

Small request. Could the 'dropped loot' bag for arrows and bolts be a different colour than brown, so when zombies despawn we can tell they are our ammo.
And, could the despawn timer for the dropped loot bags be longer than 60 secs, 180 would be nice so there's less panic when trying to quickly organise inventory before they despawn (I mean the sack and not the loot container bag)

After eliminating the zombies with archery, we have their loot drop bags (big and in potentially three different colors), and then the little brown bags that each contain either one arrow or one crossbow bolt, unless you are also pelting the zeds with canned foods or whatever. Chances are not much else is going to be in one of those brown bags ( aka generic place holders). The ability to reclaim a bolt/arrow is intended as a bonus feature: Ranger's Guide to Archery Vol 1 gives you the ability to retrieve 20% more arrows (if you act on them soon enough). Suppose one could concentrate on retrieving the brown bags first (or if they were any other color), then loot the zed's drops afterward since loot drops exist for a much longer time.  Loot first, organise inventory afterward.  And sometimes the arrows are just stuck into whatever block they've been shot into and we can retrieve them. 

Now, after all of that diatribe I fail to see what's at issue. Small bag color? It'll contain an arrow or a bolt regardless for pete's sake. Small brown bag despawns too quickly? Write it off. Craft more arrows.  

 

[NekoPawtato]

Small brown bag despawns too quickly? Write it off. Craft more arrows. 

May not necessarily be arrows though. You could be wrenching a car with full inventory and all of a sudden an engine or car battery pops out as a brown bag

Though I wonder if longer despawn time would have an impact on performance, think drop mining for example

 

[Melange]

May not necessarily be arrows though. You could be wrenching a car with full inventory and all of a sudden an engine or car battery pops out as a brown bag

Though I wonder if longer despawn time would have an impact on performance, think drop mining for example

Sure, an engine or battery graphic instead of the generic brown bag would be great. But I would still have to perform a quick 'keep or discard' on my inventory either way. Guess it would save me from having to inspect the little bag to see what it is that I don't have room for. 

I would wager a guess that since the since the bag already exits, allowing it to exist a bit longer would not noticeably affect performance. The devs extended the life span of zombie loot bags already. Earlier Alpha's had them disappear before our eyes. 

Not sure what you mean about drop mining though.

 

[NekoPawtato]

Sure, an engine or battery graphic instead of the generic brown bag would be great. But I would still have to perform a 'keep or discard' on my inventory either way. Guess it would save me from having to inspect the little bag to see what it is that I don't have room for. 

Sorry to clarify, I was mainly referring to the request about increasing the despawn timer of the bags. Meaning more time to play the "keep or discard" game without fear of losing said engine or battery, not about the appearance of the bag.

You had mentioned that it wasn't a big deal if the bags despawn (in the context of arrows) because they can always make more, so I was just saying it may not always be bags of arrows

 

[Melange]

Sorry to clarify, I was mainly referring to the request about increasing the despawn timer of the bags. Meaning more time to play the "keep or discard" game without fear of losing said engine or battery, not about the appearance of the bag.

You had mentioned that it wasn't a big deal if the bags despawn (in the context of arrows) because they can always make more, so I was just saying it may not always be bags of arrows

Its all good. I am so used to the "keep or discard" scenario that it has become second nature in my game play.  Have fun. I'm gonna go make some more arrows - the steel ones. And throw out those feathers that I am not needing anymore 

 

[NekoPawtato]

Not sure what you mean about drop mining though.

Sorry I just saw the edit -- drop mining as in when the player purposefully allows the ground above them to collapse (by not putting supports down) while mining, very easy to collapse in say the desert, it usually results in many many many brown bags of sand. So 180 seconds would mean more time they are around and if the person just keeps drop mining and creating more bags at some point (right before the first bags despawn) you may end up with a sea of bags

 

[FranticDan]

Now, after all of that diatribe I fail to see what's at issue. Small bag color? It'll contain an arrow or a bolt regardless for pete's sake. Small brown bag despawns too quickly? Write it off. Craft more arrows.  

The despawn timer will apply to EVERYTHING, not just arrows/bolts. Everything despawns very quickly (60 seconds) and if your inventory is full (after harvesting an animal for example, or harvesting a car) you gotta act quick. And I've seen people not even notice the dropped items and then the bag is gone in a few seconds after they do notice.

As for the colour, its not as important when compared to a longer despawn timer, but the amount of times I've seen a bag wondering what it is, because I've forgotten about it

 

[Melange]

you may end up with a sea of bags

I understand now. Usually happens when I don't want it to though. Will have to try a controlled collapse once I find the desert in this RWG.  Lag awaits I'm sure 

 

[Melange]

The despawn timer will apply to EVERYTHING, not just arrows/bolts. Everything despawns very quickly (60 seconds) and if your inventory is full (after harvesting an animal for example, or harvesting a car) you gotta act quick. And I've seen people not even notice the dropped items and then the bag is gone in a few seconds after they do notice.

As for the colour, its not as important when compared to a longer despawn timer, but the amount of times I've seen a bag wondering what it is, because I've forgotten about it

Fair enough. The bag color was mentioned first, and the despawn time of the arrow bags I interpreted as a potential after thought. You'd like an increase in brown bag despawn time, that's okay with me. Different color? Why not. Would make my game easier I suppose. Despawn time is your main complaint, not bag color. I get it now. Though that's not quite how the post was initially worded. And I'll leave it at that. Hell, we're not arguing over jars or dew collectors and such.  :ranger:

 

[Neminsis]

No worries, I got a crash course in loot tables working on my mod.  Most of the information gained was when I made a mistake or two (and helpful advice from other modders)

I never really had an interest in modding or looking at the xmls at all. It's always been functional enough for me to develop a general rule through observation of the end product.  It wouldn't really be worth it, for example, to go through every potential loot container to figure out an average drop rate across them and then adjust for the frequency that those containers will spawn within the range of the player, then adjust again for changes in player level. Even on the developer side it makes more sense to collect telemetry and then run the end results through a spreadsheet before tweaking the values as needed. It's just a lot easier to assume at this point that the levels of any given item are 'adequate'. 

The only reason I ever even skimmed the xml was to try and figure out why the particular loot boxes we used in a video seemed to dry up when loot stage got too high, and that's about as far as I got into solving that particular mystery. Since my guy didn't want to do a follow up video, I let it drop.  

If I do however develop an interest, I will be blaming both of you and cursing your names along the way.

 

[Neminsis]

The despawn timer will apply to EVERYTHING, not just arrows/bolts. Everything despawns very quickly (60 seconds) and if your inventory is full (after harvesting an animal for example, or harvesting a car) you gotta act quick. And I've seen people not even notice the dropped items and then the bag is gone in a few seconds after they do notice.

It's just good practice to have as much open inventory space as you might need 'before' harvesting anything that will produce those little brown bags. Those little brown bags are not primary loot containers but a second chance signal that you've failed in the inventory management mini game that's the true core of this game. Zombies...Pffft. Building...Pffft. Survival...Pfft. It's inventory management all the way down.

 

[FranticDan]

It's just good practice to have as much open inventory space as you might need 'before' harvesting anything that will produce those little brown bags. Those little brown bags are not primary loot containers but a second chance signal that you've failed in the inventory management mini game that's the true core of this game. Zombies...Pffft. Building...Pffft. Survival...Pfft. It's inventory management all the way down.

7 seconds to Manage Your Inventory: THE GAME! 

 

[BFT2020]

7 seconds to Manage Your Inventory: THE GAME! 

Just stop hording 

Or if you refuse to do so, always have a secured chest crafted and in your inventory to put down when it gest full 

 

[Pritch]

QUESTION:  Backpack compartment just for ammo.

Would it be possible to have a separate tab in your backpack for just ammo?

Pros:

• Ammo types are great for adapting to the fight you need to have, but there are so many types and variations that it ends up clogging up your backpack space.  A separate tab (compartment) that ammo automatically goes into would make sifting through a cluttered backpack less strenuous and let you focus on the "combat" inventory separate from everything else.
  

Cons:

• Possibly complicate the backpack too much.  Possible unwanted interference with the encumberment system.
  

 

[Syphon583]

QUESTION:  Backpack compartment just for ammo.

Would it be possible to have a separate tab in your backpack for just ammo?

Pros:

• Ammo types are great for adapting to the fight you need to have, but there are so many types and variations that it ends up clogging up your backpack space.  A separate tab (compartment) that ammo automatically goes into would make sifting through a cluttered backpack less strenuous and let you focus on the "combat" inventory separate from everything else.
  

Cons:

• Possibly complicate the backpack too much.  Possible unwanted interference with the encumberment system.
  

This feels more like a discussion that belongs in 'Pimp Dreams' so it might get moved there, but in response there would be a lot of questions to answer:

1. How many slots are in this 'ammo compartment'?
   
2. How does it affect encumbrance?
   
3. Does the amount of slots in the this compartment take away from the available slots in my main compartment?
   
4. What happens if I pick up ammo and all of my ammo slots are full?
   
5. a bunch of other questions that devs would likely think of
   

My point is there would be a lot they would have to think about and change and I'm not sure I see the benefit in implementing something like this. Ultimately it sounds like what the issue is inventory management. What would REALLY help is if they implemented a way to lock inventory slots. There are mods that already allow you to lock slots, I just wish this was available in vanilla (possible they add it before gold, but not a high priority right now).

 

[Viktoriusiii]

Question:
This whole new "learning by looting" sounds nice... I mean it is just a learning by doing with extra steps, but worse... but I take what I can get...

The question:
What do ppl do that don't go looting?

Farmers, miners, builders, and so on?
Are they just... @%$#ed until their mates bring them back the books they need?
 

 

[Jost Amman]

Question:
This whole new "learning by looting" sounds nice... I mean it is just a learning by doing with extra steps, but worse... but I take what I can get...

The question:
What do ppl do that don't go looting?

Farmers, miners, builders, and so on?
Are they just... @%$#ed until their mates bring them back the books they need?
 

This has already been answered several times... basically, looting and exploring is an integral (core) part of the game.

If someone wants to play by staying in one location all the time while at the same time they want to earn everything the game has to offer, well, this is not the "right game".

I don't mean to be rude or attack your question, mind you, but it's just like someone playing a First-Person Shooter asking: "And what happens to the people who don't want to use weapons?" ... Well, they die!  hwell:

 

[Uncle Al]

Apologies - double posted in error.

 

[Uncle Al]

Question:
This whole new "learning by looting" sounds nice... I mean it is just a learning by doing with extra steps, but worse... but I take what I can get...

The question:
What do ppl do that don't go looting?

Farmers, miners, builders, and so on?
Are they just... @%$#ed until their mates bring them back the books they need?
 

It's not really a massive change.  In A20 in order to craft anything beyond iron tier tools and melee weapons you need parts, and for anything beyond basic weapons you need schematics.  To get both of those things you need to loot or buy them or be given them by other players.  In A21 you need magazines and parts to craft.  If you don't loot you'll need to buy them or be given them by other players.

 

[Viktoriusiii]

This has already been answered several times... basically, looting and exploring is an integral (core) part of the game.

If someone wants to play by staying in one location all the time while at the same time they want to earn everything the game has to offer, well, this is not the "right game".

I don't mean to be rude or attack your question, mind you, but it's just like someone playing a First-Person Shooter asking: "And what happens to the people who don't want to use weapons?" ... Well, they die!  hwell:

Oh I'm not the target... I'm just thinking alienating like... at least 20% of your players is a bit rough


And it is not about "getting everything" just the stuff you do.
You know... back in my time we had a system...
 

Spoiler

longwinded LBD explanation

... and it worked perfectly before the FunPimps attacked! Only THE Viktorius, master of defending all things LBD could stop them.
But when A17 released and the playerbase needed him most... he vanished.
3 Alphas have past and the forum has become a echochamber of FunPimp fans, herolding their every word!
And that is, why he stays away, to protect his sanity

So now you can not do mining only because oyu only get better by looting?
(and no you could still buy parts at the trader, which you could finance by getting gems and other ressources out of the earth. Surely ineffective, but absolutely doable.
If you can buy those skillbooks at a vendor for a reasonable price, this would be fine... but the way I know TFPs they want players to play their way... the exploring way!
*sigh* But who knows... maybe I will be proven wrong... for once...