Jost Amman
Well-known member
I would change your name to "Customer Service Representative n.4893" if I were you.
It sounds much more professional.
PC Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow
- Thread starter meilodasreh
- Start date
It sounds much more professional.
Roland
Moderator
mstdv inc
New member
I think Pro is a paid subscription..Will you give him a 30-day trial? Trialand before Proland?
Roland
Moderator
Just to dispel ALL ambiguities, @schwanz9000 is Allen on the development team. You should be able to find him in the credits. He has taken over Gazz’s position. Gazz was sharing time with TFP and his other business and needed more time for his other business and TFP needed a full time XML Specialist and so they parted ways awhile ago.
If you didn’t know, Allen is responsible for the wonderful shape menu (among other things) and he used to be a regular forum member a long long time ago.
He is very active in keeping his ear to the ground visiting various message boards and streaming channels and has considered a lot of the feedback and mentions it often in TFP team meetings to make sure customer sentiments are represented.
He is not a casual player of 7 Days to Die and prefers the game to be well balanced but definitely tipped toward the challenging side and so is always pushing to keep things challenging for the players.
Allen is a great guy and definitely a friend to the players! And he controls your loot probabilities so be nice….
Laz Man
Fun Pimps Staff
So, when I'm looking at something like this...
-<lootgroup name="groupJunk01" count="1">
<item loot_prob_template="medLow" group="groupFoodTrash"/>
<item loot_prob_template="med" group="groupScrapCommon"/>
<item loot_prob_template="med" group="groupBuildingCommon"/>
<item loot_prob_template="med" group="groupCraftingCommon"/>
and this...
lootgroup name="groupCraftingCommon" count="1">
<item name="resourceCloth" count="1,5"/>
<item name="resourceMetalPipe" count="1,5"/>
<item name="resourceGlue" count="1,2"/>
<item name="resourceScrapPolymers" count="1,10"/>
<item name="resourceNail" count="1,5"/>
it's going to be .35+.5+.5+.5=1.85 = .18+27+27+27 = 100 So it's a 27% chance of pulling from groupcraftingcommon and then a 20% chance of getting glue so a 5% overall before it's repeated for each of the empty cells in the container.
I'm not exactly sure atm but don't the junk piles have 4 fillable cells?
So, 5% X 4 = 20% for the whole container?
Lasher
New member
Thanks for your reply - I'll do my best to not argue with freinds of yours on a day that you feel like a moderator.He used sarcasm. There is no forum rule against that and you can use that as well. Your reply also had direct insults/ad hominems (genius, raging fanboi) so I actually was thinking about stepping in as moderator.
By the way, I edited my reply to you shortly before I read this new post, and I did give you credit for the second part of your complaint.
As a normal forum user I can side with anyone I want and give my opinion about anything. If I ever act in my capacity as a moderator you will notice the difference.
(Love the veiled threat BTW)
Just to clarify though - seeing as there's no forum rules on sarcasm...
I'll admit that you've got me on the "raging fanboi"...
But "Genius"?
As in I said genius but I meant the opposite...
As in "Sarcasm"....?
No. If a container uses groupJunk01 then he will always have only one stack of items in it. There is no repeat unless explicitely specified in the XML with for example a "count=4" or "count=all". But I would guess many loot container don't use groupJunk01 but instead groupJunk which in turn calls groupJunk01 02 and 03.
Notice the count="all" which means it should pick one item out of 01 and with a lesser probability items out of 02 and 03. At least that is how I assume "force_prob=true" works, i.e. it picks groupJunk02 only with a probability of exactly "low" aka 20% instead of the 100% one would expect from the "count=all".
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That is great. I'm friends with everyone here
"Genius" is irony (fine) and a weak insult. The irony is not the problem. I think you'd agree that insults can be summed up in assessing a post, right? The sum of both insults you used still was below MY threshold to act (can't speak for other moderators).
Note that sarcasm can be used to attack the opinion of a poster or a poster himself. The former is no problem, the latter is again problematic since it is an insult cloaked by sarcasm.
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RipClaw
Well-known member
This is basically the equivalent of rearranging everything in a store. I don't think any customer ever asked for the store to be remodeled. But in the end, everyone gets used to it and in a few years the store is remodeled again.
Lasher
New member
Fair comment.That is great. I'm friends with everyone here
"Genius" is irony (fine) and a weak insult. The irony is not the problem. I think you'd agree that insults can be summed up in assessing a post, right? The sum of both insults you used still was below MY threshold to act (can't speak for other moderators).
Note that sarcasm can be used to attack the opinion of a poster or a poster himself. The former is no problem, the latter is again problematic since it is an insult cloaked by sarcasm.
Just to be clear though as far as I'm aware sarcasm is a directed form of irony which is used as a method of criticism or mockery.
The only reason I mentioned it is that you explained that there are no forum rules against sarcasm.
outhous took a sarcastic tone with me - so I assume it's fine for me to reply in kind.
Lots of definitions to choose from, wikipedia for example says that sarcasm can be without irony, another definition says sarcasm is just "irony to mock" . I would side with wikipedia here since I can easily construct sarcastic comments without irony.
I read it again, and Outhous was clearly mocking your statements and even when he referenced you directly in the second parapgraph and implied that you must be clearvoyant to know this, it was attacking your statement, not attacking you.
And it would be perfectly fine to reply likewise.
Just one caveat: Not sure if it is possible but if someone overdoes the sarcasm he might not be fined for flaming but instead for trolling (see the official forum rules for definitions if you are interested). This is a tier5 forum with lots of trap doors
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Okay, I found the part that you're talking about at <lootgroup name="groupJunk" count="all"> So we stop calculating after 1 cell giving us a probability of glue at 5% but if we're going to work out an average number of glues for a set of containers, we have to then figure stack size into it as well. Not sure where stack size is even represented here or how it's calculated, because from experience I know there is a great deal of variation in the end result. I suspect that since the end result of how many you actually receive is higher than the numbers I would guess to be the limit that something hokey is going on here.
Stack size of an item is done with "count=1,2" , directly in the items line.
"<item name="resourceMetalPipe" count="1,5"/>" would give you a stack of 1 up to 5 metal pipes
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BFT2020
Well-known member
The number of items you receive is based on the count in that subgroup, randomized equally based on the range.
In your example for glue, it is stated as
<item name="resourceGlue" count ="1,2"/>
So you have a 50/50 chance of getting 1 or 2.
As another example, cloth in the same group
<item name="resourceCloth" count ="1,5"/>
You should have a 20% chance of getting 1,2,3,4 or 5 pieces of cloth if that item was picked
But wait, there is more
<!-- cars-->
<lootcontainer id="19" name="cars" count="1,2" size="7,4" sound_open="UseActions/open_vehicle" sound_close="UseActions/close_vehicle" open_time="4" loot_quality_template="qualBaseTemplate">
<item group="groupCars"/>
</lootcontainer>
As you can see, the cars container has a count of "1,2" which means you did have a 50% chance of going through the groupCars twice. That means, if you are lucky, you could get potentially 2 picks of glue meaning your potential glue haul could be 2-4.
There is a mod out there that will generate the percentage chances of loot drops as you play the game
https://www.nexusmods.com/7daystodie/mods/2067
This is from a gamer that goes by @Boidster Boidster seems legit....but it seem like the mod was being pushed pretty hard at the beginning so you might want to be weary of them. Seems awfully helpful which always indicates something is up
That what I thought it was, but I still have a couple problems.
It's easy enough now to take that 50% chance of double loot and integrate it into our original drop chance for a single container to find the average for glue over a series of the same containers of 7.25%, but I don't see the mechanism that increases drop size with loot stage, and we know that it does, and I don't see how it could sometime give more than 2 glue, and I may be remembering from a previous alpha, but I know that I have gotten 4 glue in a drop previously, and from what I see here that shouldn't be possible.
That's also what I thought, and it would explain my experience not matching up with the numbers I was seeing here.
I don't really use mods. I mean, I'll take them for a test run but I inevitably revert to vanilla asap. I know, that's practically blasphemy, but I have very few bugs in vanilla and I'm running on a very low end pc.
BFT2020
Well-known member
Most of the loot is independent of loot stage. The majority of the probability calculations are based on the standard tables
<lootprobtemplate name="veryLow">
<lootprobtemplate name="low">
<lootprobtemplate name="medLow">
<lootprobtemplate name="med">
<lootprobtemplate name="medHigh">
<lootprobtemplate name="high">
<lootprobtemplate name="guaranteed">
These will apply to most. The loot stage probabilities are applied only to equipment that have tiers, like weapons, schematics, armor, tools.
You still use the basic ones to see if that item drops, then the loot stage tables take over to determine what tier level you are getting and what quality level you are getting based on your loot stage.
The ProbT# tables will determine what tier of the equipment you are getting, while QLTemplateT# will determine the quality level of the item given
I got all that. I'm not really explaining myself very well here, but I found the part I was looking for under ammo groups where they've got different count ranges for subset items based on loot tier. Sorry for being obtuse, I just couldn't think of an example at the time, I just vaguely remembered the technique being used somewhere after the one time I lazily skimmed the entirety of this XML since a20 dropped.
And now that I've fumbled around long enough, I've got a good idea how one would go about tying loot quantity to loot stage.
I appreciate the effort and the patience.
BFT2020
Well-known member
I appreciate the effort and the patience.
No worries, I got a crash course in loot tables working on my mod. Most of the information gained was when I made a mistake or two (and helpful advice from other modders)
