PC Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow

Adam the Waster said:
So far i like the look for the new crafting system.  

just kinda sad when they showed the Intellect gear, there is no new baton...  oof
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Well probably they want too keep this same number of weapon in this same category 

PS : IDK HOW TO DELETE EMPTY QUOTE xd  anyone know how?

 
On the topic of obscene magazine collection, are we going to get a collection bonus like the ability to craft a standard level 6 (pink) item within the completed series?

I think that would be a nice work-towards, and with item randomisation and later loot stage offering of highest quality weapons and armour that is just found whilst looting anyway, crafting high level stuff wouldn't have any real negative impact.

Finding a better item in loot would still mean we'd switch to it.

If there are no highest level stuff craftable on completion of book series, then other than an artificial slow down of weapon and item progress, what's the point of having this new system?

I ask that sincerely because slowing down progression and necessitating looting seem to be the only functions from implementing it.

 
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Telly G said:
Actually you could do these random encounter escort missions you'll start seeing about say 50-60% of the way through the game to fully restore every weapon in your inventory's repair slots in the first game. 
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The blue escort missions.

 
Guppycur said:
So as you know, Valheim is a fantastic game, and has many many features I'd love to see in 7days.  I've been slowly modding features in, but I was wondering about fast travel/portals?

Have y'all considered introducing them?

On one hand, it doesn't really fit thematically with the current stage of the game, but on the other, if earned or as a quest reward or as a jump start to a quest itself, it could be an amazing add.

Something I hope you guys consider.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgCDX7NioZE

Another thing I'm wholly interested in is upgrading workbenches by placing bench addon's nearby; I know we used to be able to upgrade workbenches by adding things like a crucible and whatnot, have y'all put any consideration into workbench upgrades by proximity?
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I doubt they'd go for that, even if tech-wise it could be made to "make sense", but regarding Valheim, one thing that game has that I would LOVE to have in 7D2D would be the cartographer table, where you can share what parts of the map you've uncovered and update your own map to see what others have uncovered.  Useless for single player, but that hasn't stopped things before (iirc Charismatic Nature only applies to other people).

Of course I won't be holding my breath on that cartographer table idea making it's way here, but hey, I'm all for being surprised in that regard.

 
KhaineGB said:
Regarding the UI, it's the bit in red i've included on this edited screenshot madmole posted earlier.

View attachment 25004

I'm working off the assumption that the crafting section may be using a different UI controller to perks.

If we could use THAT bit in perks (just from a modding standpoint, not expecting TFP to use it), that would honestly be amazing. Like, the grid up top to show what items get unlocked, then the name/perk description/etc like it currently is, for example. :)

Also, build 69... nice ;)
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It just dawned upon me @madmole I really enjoy using custom perk systems but if you add your new system the game will simply crash If I use the 2 I use now because you have harmony locked the perk system page UI could your team consider adding a page system to the perk trees themselves for spill and overflow? (I have tried in the past unsuccessfully because I can't code for shi**ft.) This would help modders who want more than the additional hardlocked perk trees. 

I included an Ideal location for spill over page selector. I also included what I was talking about about perk tree to ui limitations. You can only have one more without issues because anything past that point won't render with the current configuration. (Causing windows_xml errors)

Screenshot 2022-05-29 074456.png

The max before crashes and error screen of death is 8 perk trees you are adding 1 more so now modders can in the games current configuration add 1.

Currently the pack I created uses 2 extra perk trees but lets say I add 1 more and make it 9 even if that perk tree has no perks just calling the UI will crash the game causing infinite errors. (Does this make sense @Roland am I explaining this clearly?)
 

Screenshot 2022-05-29 075727.png max perks is 8.png

The new update without the proper updates to the ui actually damages the ability for modders to add more than 1 perk tree that means AIOs that add a perk tree effectively will be unable to mod in a way which uses customs trees beyond one. So even though a perk tree adds something that does not conflict simply due to UI hard limits in the base game would be unable to. Ultimately users could be forced to us SMXui but SMXui often has its own sets of issues and it is not practical or even desired in all situations.

Also the vanilla UI should support bleed over by nature. I hope you really try and understand what I am saying. (Sorry if I rambled I am getting tired.) 

As always hope this helps. 

 
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You can just add more columns to the window for the perk icons to stop the crash. Doesn't need harmony. It's a simple XML edit.

HOWEVER, you may also need to make the icons smaller (like I do in DF), which is another XML edit.

 
KhaineGB said:
You can just add more columns to the window for the perk icons to stop the crash. Doesn't need harmony. It's a simple XML edit.

HOWEVER, you may also need to make the icons smaller (like I do in DF), which is another XML edit.
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This solution sucks. Smaller is worse for a number of reasons.

One I have bad Eye sight so now the ability to have more perks is limited to eye sight as well.

Two this is a very dirty solution that also involves making things harder to navigate.

Three XML will only take you so far.

Four this is a very easily fixed arbitrary limitation from the Developers end.

 
I am not sure if this is a proper place to ask, but i had been watching JaWoodle's "city" challenge. And so would like to ask, if there will be plans to add a "One type" world option without going into the XML files so that traders can spawn with the map. basically checking the type you want the whole world to be. If nothing else, hope this gets thought of for a later Alpha.

 
Zeal said:
I am not sure if this is a proper place to ask, but i had been watching JaWoodle's "city" challenge. And so would like to ask, if there will be plans to add a "One type" world option without going into the XML files so that traders can spawn with the map. basically checking the type you want the whole world to be. If nothing else, hope this gets thought of for a later Alpha.
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In A21, when you generate a world, you can set one biome to 100% and the the others to 0% to achieve this. 

 
P3rf3ctVZer0 said:
This solution sucks. Smaller is worse for a number of reasons.

One I have bad Eye sight so now the ability to have more perks is limited to eye sight as well.

Two this is a very dirty solution that also involves making things harder to navigate.

Three XML will only take you so far.

Four this is a very easily fixed arbitrary limitation from the Developers end.
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Yeah, it's very easily fixed.

With XML.

Like I said. You don't need to mess with C# or anything like that. If you don't want smaller icons, then move the window to the left and make it bigger so you don't need to mess with the icons. You can do ALL of this with XML.

I'm not being funny, but stop inventing issues that can be easily fixed by you. 

 
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Not sure if this is the place for suggestions, or if it's been made, but small request on the new crafting XP setup:

Basic:

- When scrapping a weapon, provide a small amount of crafting XP to that tree

Ideal: (probably not as easy to implement to existing system)

- Very low XP (or none?) given to lower-level items (ranked lower than highest crafting level for that weapon), large XP given for dismantling items higher than maximum crafting level --- alternatively, dismantled items would only provide XP to various stages of the crafting XP... ie: pipe weapons would provide XP until maximum crafting level for Pipe weapons s unlocked, then provide none.

- No XP given for dismantling items that are crafted (like Pipe weapons - maybe an internal flag on all items that have bene player crafted) to prevent 'XP grinding by crafting', still keeping "XP by Loot" as the goal.

- Intellect Perk tree could provide bonus % XP to dismantling items (could synergize well with Loot+ skills for interesting character builds) -- "would level faster, and be a 'jack of all trades' when crafting, compared to others in becoming the 'blacksmith' for the camp"

- Magazine system would still provide the most (and guaranteed at ANY crafting level) XP to each tree.... meaning to get 100/100 crafting, you almost certainly need to find those magazines, but early on, you can find a bit more abundance of low-tier loot to help tide you along until the loot-find bonuses kick in significantly for each tree.

Reason:

ie: instead of just getting some scrap metal by dismantling those lvl 1 pistols you loot around but will never use, you can at least 'gain some knowledge' by picking them apart with keen interest.

 
Kiernan531 said:
It overall feels like a completely different, and ultimately better, game.
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For you, sure. That is exactly the role of mods and especially overhaul mods. They change the experience, and anyone whose way of having fun meshes well with the changes, will feel like they are playing the best version of the game. We are very pleased that people are modding the game and others are enjoying those mods and getting an experience that matches up better with their desires. It is exactly why we have always encouraged modding.

Since you love Darkness Falls so much I'm not really certain why you care whether the crafting system for the vanilla game goes under another iteration. You obviously don't play the vanilla version any longer so is it just that you don't like seeing others playing those changes as you watch from afar?

As to your concerns, I can assure you that the perks are being changed to allow for the loss of crafting from their benefits. They will not remain the same as they have been but just minus the crafting recipes. As for the time and the journey of developing your character and learning the recipes, the pace of that process is going to appeal differently to everyone. Some people really enjoy a slow progression where you start out with primitive materials and build primitive bases making do with what you have until sometime later in the game the best materials are available and you have all the best tools. This change will be great for them because they will just play the game and over the course of game weeks will get better and better and be able to do more and more. Others like a faster pace and want to get started on their final mega-base as soon as possible and feel like they can't really get started until they have the best equipment and are max perked in the right categories.

So, yes, it is going to take a lot of time and a lot of magazines to completely max out and if you are the type that doesn't like to start playing until after you've maxed yourself out, then either simply use the creative menu to get yourself all the mags you need to enjoy the game or play a mod that increases the pacing and method of getting kitted out quickly so you can start your mega base sooner.

Since you love mods anyway and aren't shy about using them, whatever the vanilla game does or does not do really has very little effect on you. Peace. Play Darkness Falls and ignore the change.

 
Uncle Al said:
Very interested to see how Madmole has developed the initial ideas he bandied around, so thanks for the heads up.

I am concerned that it's almost impossible to get a decent crafting system without revisiting other systems.  Tools is the most glaring example.  Madmole stated he wanted to, quite logically, have a system where the skill required to craft a Q4 stone axe would let you craft a Q2 iron axe, and so on.

This is great were it not for the fact that, because block hp are standard and block damage has no randomisation, iron tools are almost always a bad choice anyway.  If you have to drop a couple of quality levels in the process there will never be a reason to make them.

Shovels showcase this the best - once your shovel plus mods plus miner 69 skill have you doing 100 points of damage to soil, there is no reason to change to a slower swinging, stamina draining iron shovel unless that pushes your damage to 200, because the important thing is swings per block destroyed, not raw dps.  I don't even think hitting 200 damage a swing is possible with iron, so you ignore iron and go straight from stone to steel.  There is an edge case for moving up to 125 damage if you're clearing a lot of topsoil, but it's pretty niche.

There's some other changes that I think have to happen, but they're mostly within crafting itself (like being able to craft top quality because then finding parts gives you a slow second route into finding Q6 items with better random stats that your current one and makes mid-endgame crafting actually useful) but as they're all actually crafting related I'll wait to see what the actual proposal is on those.
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Yeah, I never liked the negatives associated with using more efficient tools.  There should be no downside from going from stone tools to iron or steel.

The stamina usage (per unit of resource) should always be lower when using more efficient tools.  I can see some minimum strength level for the metal pickaxe however.

 
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