PC Please stop trying to tell us how to play

[SylenThunder]

By the way, not everyone reads the forum. Most players only see what was released and sometimes they don't even read the release notes.

That's entirely on you. SO basically you are making the assumption for your failed argument only because you don't actually pay attention to what the developers are discussing.

Seen from the outside, if you had paid any attention these changes would have been no surprise, and you would have known about them occurring long before they happened. I don't have much extra inside knowledge. I'm basing my argument entirely on the information that is publicly available and presented to you the player.

So again, the only reason they seem like "quick fixes" is because you can't be bothered to actually pay attention to a game you claim to care so much about.

 

[Roland]

Well everyone has an opinion I guess.  The game is in alpha, players should point out what's wrong with the current system (again, opinions), your advice in essence goes against the very nature of a game in alpha to suit what is your apparent preference for play style.

I don't mind that I don't find a beaker in the first chem lab I hit, I mind that I hit hospitals, chem labs, drug labs, basement meth labs, corporate pharmacy pois and can't find a beaker. You don't care, but a lot of people think this is silly.

My advice is simply a workaround for those interested in getting a solution now while the game is in development. It was not meant as a conversation ender. You can still push for changes you want and while waiting for those changes to occur you can use workarounds like my suggestion or mods to tailor the game to how you like. It’s not an either or scenario to modify how you play and also give feedback for changes you want. As I said, everyone has fun differently and if getting a beaker is critical to having fun for someone it is entirely okay to get one using the creative menu. 

 

[Maharin]

I sense a disturbance in the force.  It's as if a million opinions were suddenly trying to become facts.

I guess that also includes the real world and is probably also an opinion.  If you don't believe in the real world, my apologies, and carry on.

 

[Roland]

That's really the most tiresome argument I hear around here to shut down people's opinions.  First of all the game was released nearly TEN years ago so instead of "we are going to completely scrap an entire system and redo it" you would think it would be all about refinement and balance at this point.

Second, since the game is in alpha players should be encouraged to speak their minds about changes and purposed changes, not shut down.

You are trying to push a false narrative which is why you feel shut down when the truth is posted and contradicts your narrative. 
 

You say that it has been 10 years in alpha  and so a mistake to completely overhaul a system at such a late stage. However the truth is that we just completed year 8 in August and when the changes that you reference were made it was at about year 6. Why not represent the timeline accurately? Because you have an agenda that the game has been too long in alpha and you’re willing to fudge the numbers to bolster your agenda and that drives your opinion. 
 

Players opinions are welcome as long as they have a basis in the true context. As an insider I am going to give a correct accounting of what is going on to diminish the false conjecture and speculation made by those on the outside. Why would anyone want to have their opinion have a basis in false speculations rather than fact?

First of all you, are a moderator. So you get a view behind the curtain that a normal player don't get. We only get the outside perspective.

So you want us to be silent when we know that a particular post is a faulty guess at developer motives?  Why would you want false information to continue and gain traction?

Should we just all agree that LBD was changed suddenly at the 10 year development anniversary since it was an outside view and nobody should be shut down?

 

[Darthjake]

I sense a disturbance in the force.  It's as if a million opinions were suddenly trying to become facts.

I guess that also includes the real world and is probably also an opinion.  If you don't believe in the real world, my apologies, and carry on.

The real world is just a crutch for those that can't handle fantasy and science fiction.

 

[RipClaw]

That's entirely on you. SO basically you are making the assumption for your failed argument only because you don't actually pay attention to what the developers are discussing.

Seen from the outside, if you had paid any attention these changes would have been no surprise, and you would have known about them occurring long before they happened. I don't have much extra inside knowledge. I'm basing my argument entirely on the information that is publicly available and presented to you the player.

So again, the only reason they seem like "quick fixes" is because you can't be bothered to actually pay attention to a game you claim to care so much about.

Funny that you accuse me of not paying attention to things. @Marinxar has written that with the quick-fix. That was not me.

I was just trying to explain how these things look from the perspective of an ordinary player.

 

[wicketness]

Just eat Pretzels.

Shut Up and wait another 10 years like the rest of us.

I got 1000's of hours in game i am 10's of thousands invested in hosting from my first day back in Nov. 2014.

In 7 years i learned you can post it but not gonna happen anytime soon.

TFP creates the game we play it. Nice and Simple.

This is for the OP.
 

That's my Nickle.

 

[Roland]

First of all you, are a moderator. So you get a view behind the curtain that a normal player don't get. We only get the outside perspective.

So should we be silent when we know that a particular post is a faulty guess at developer motives?  Why would we want false information to continue and gain traction?

Should we just all agree that LBD was changed suddenly at the 10 year development anniversary since it was an outside view and nobody should be shut down?

I think most users are grateful to read insider insights and observations because most users just want the truth. They don’t want to push a narrative that the game has been in development for decades or that the player progression change was done as a sloppy last minute patch on a problem the devs were too incompetent to properly fix and due to them caving in to a small but loud faction of the player base. These are myths that angry players rely upon to bolster their arguments but the context is contrived and fabricated. 
 

 

[Maharin]

These are myths that angry players rely upon to bolster their arguments but the context is contrived and fabricated.

So... angrily extruded?  Like constipation?

 

[Roland]

So... angrily extruded?  Like constipation?

I’m an information laxative. 

 

[RipClaw]

So you want us to be silent when we know that a particular post is a faulty guess at developer motives?  Why would you want false information to continue and gain traction?

No, but you shouldn't assume that the players have the same knowledge base as you moderators.

Maybe you should explain to people in more detail what the reasoning behind the changes was and what kind of consideration process preceded it.

Should we just all agree that LBD was changed suddenly at the 10 year development anniversary since it was an outside view and nobody should be shut down?

For you it was a 10 year development and I am sure that about every week someone in the development team mentioned something about this. But for a player that played A16 just a week before A17 release, it was just a week between LDB and the current progress system. Even longtime players probably never realized that LBD was about to be removed. They just saw it changing.

I have experienced similar problems with our customers. When big changes are coming, they will always come as a surprise.

I don't blame them, though, because they probably have better things to do than constantly test their systems for compatibility with the latest software versions or to keep up with all the IT news.

I think most users are grateful to read insider insights and observations because most users just want the truth.

That's great but it's hard to keep up if you don't read the developer diary every day. You don't look at it for a week and a few hundred posts have been added.

 

[Viktoriusiii]

Maybe you should explain to people in more detail what the reasoning behind the changes was and what kind of consideration process preceded it.

@Rolandbasicially every alpha game has a steam update that explains why something was changed.

For 7d2d the changelog is massive, but loads of it is just new additions. But gameplay changes should be explained. 

More community interaction would be nice... buuuut I am already glad it is not A11-13 bad xD

Where there were no Moderators and players had to run the support channels  ahhh good old times

 

[Roland]

No, but you shouldn't assume that the players have the same knowledge base as you moderators.

Maybe you should explain to people in more detail what the reasoning behind the changes was and what kind of consideration process preceded it.

Well I do explain it over and over again. I’ve explained that we just finished 8 years of development and we still get people saying 10+ years because it fits better with their complaint that development has been too long. 
 

When I explain early access and alpha and why changes are made, these people don’t thank me for the insider communication. They declare that I’m trying to shut down their opinion. 
 

So if my tone seems like I’m not taking into consideration the perspective of players not in the know, please forgive me. It gets old. I’m not perfect and probably need to reset my patience setting. Tbh, though, it doesn’t really seem to matter to some people. They want to believe that changing LBD was a half-assed lazy and arbitrary change and they are not willing to let go of that belief regardless of evidence or insider insights or anything. 
 

I’ve never told anyone they should just shut up about LBD but I have corrected people on their wrong speculations about why it was changed and how it was changed. Me clarifying the actual history of development is not a judgement statement about LBD itself and whether it should or should not return. 
 

I’ve probably explained why and how farming was changed a dozen times recently and yet it is ignored— often by the same person I explained it to. They will start up another thread spouting the same exact misconceptions that I already cleared up as though I had never posted. 
 

For you it was a 10 year development

LOL… no it wasn’t. That was a joke because it won’t be ten years until August of 2023. 
 

The LBD change was released over 2 years ago which was year 6 of development. Now we have someone arguing against the LBD change because 10 years in is just too late to make sweeping changes. 
 

If I correct the time line I get accused of stifling conversation. Even you latched onto the 10 year comment even thou we are still more than a year and a half from 10 years. 
 

It’s not really that big of a deal to me whether a feature was changed in year 6 or year 10 or year 15. It’s the fudging to cast a more negative light to bolster an argument falsely that I don’t like.

 

[Viktoriusiii]

I’ve explained that we just finished 8 years of development and we still get people saying 10+ years because it fits better with their complaint that development has been too long. 

It was released in late 2013 as Alpha 8.
So if that game wasn't pumped out in under a year, I think 10 years are a fair estimate... or did I miss something? Pls correct me if so

 

[Roland]

It was released in late 2013 as Alpha 8.
So if that game wasn't pumped out in under a year, I think 10 years are a fair estimate... or did I miss something? Pls correct me if so

Sure. Late 2013 + 10 = late 2023

We just started 2022 so 10 years is still about 1.5 - 2 years in the future. 
 

No need for estimates Vic. Just add 10 to late 2013 and you’ll quickly surmise we aren’t there yet 

But that wasn’t even the crazy part of his post. He said it has been ten years and that is way too long for sweeping changes like LBD. So he was lumping in the LBD change from over 2 years ago with a ten year anniversary that won’t happen for almost 2 years from now. 
 

I call that bad estimating. Show me where I’m wrong. 
 

If he had said “We’re a little over 8 years in development which I believe is too long. When the LBD change was made 2 years ago at the 6 year mark, I believe that was too far in development for such a sweeping change”

I would have had nothing to correct him about. He is completely entitled to his opinion about how long dev time should be and that the LBD change should not have happened. I’ve got no problem with that opinion. 
 

BTW, I fully expect you guys to call it 15 years by time we get to the end of 2023…

 

[Roland]

It was released in late 2013 as Alpha 8.

Also…

It was added to Steam Early Access in December of 2013 as Alpha 5. It had previously been available to play from when the Kickstarter ended— August, I believe, by downloading it direct from The Fun Pimps using the Kickstarter code. So some people actually played Alphas 1-4 before it went to Steam. It updated to Alpha 6 before the end of December and then Alphas 7 and 8 were about a month apart in early 2014. From Alpha 9 onward the update cycles grew longer. Alpha 9 is the earliest one still available in the beta opt-in list. 

 

[SylenThunder]

Alpha 9 is the earliest one still available in the beta opt-in list. 

Correction. 8.8 is still in the list.  

 

[Roland]

Correction. 8.8 is still in the list.  

Stop shutting me down!!

 

[Matt115]

Well I do explain it over and over again. I’ve explained that we just finished 8 years of development and we still get people saying 10+ years because it fits better with their complaint that development has been too long. 
 

When I explain early access and alpha and why changes are made, these people don’t thank me for the insider communication. They declare that I’m trying to shut down their opinion. 
 

So if my tone seems like I’m not taking into consideration the perspective of players not in the know, please forgive me. It gets old. I’m not perfect and probably need to reset my patience setting. Tbh, though, it doesn’t really seem to matter to some people. They want to believe that changing LBD was a half-assed lazy and arbitrary change and they are not willing to let go of that belief regardless of evidence or insider insights or anything. 
 

I’ve never told anyone they should just shut up about LBD but I have corrected people on their wrong speculations about why it was changed and how it was changed. Me clarifying the actual history of development is not a judgement statement about LBD itself and whether it should or should not return. 
 

I’ve probably explained why and how farming was changed a dozen times recently and yet it is ignored— often by the same person I explained it to. They will start up another thread spouting the same exact misconceptions that I already cleared up as though I had never posted. 
 

LOL… no it wasn’t. That was a joke because it won’t be ten years until August of 2023. 
 

The LBD change was released over 2 years ago which was year 6 of development. Now we have someone arguing against the LBD change because 10 years in is just too late to make sweeping changes. 
 

If I correct the time line I get accused of stifling conversation. Even you latched onto the 10 year comment even thou we are still more than a year and a half from 10 years. 
 

It’s not really that big of a deal to me whether a feature was changed in year 6 or year 10 or year 15. It’s the fudging to cast a more negative light to bolster an argument falsely that I don’t like.

Sure. Late 2013 + 10 = late 2023

We just started 2022 so 10 years is still about 1.5 - 2 years in the future. 
 

No need for estimates Vic. Just add 10 to late 2013 and you’ll quickly surmise we aren’t there yet 

But that wasn’t even the crazy part of his post. He said it has been ten years and that is way too long for sweeping changes like LBD. So he was lumping in the LBD change from over 2 years ago with a ten year anniversary that won’t happen for almost 2 years from now. 
 

I call that bad estimating. Show me where I’m wrong. 
 

If he had said “We’re a little over 8 years in development which I believe is too long. When the LBD change was made 2 years ago at the 6 year mark, I believe that was too far in development for such a sweeping change”

I would have had nothing to correct him about. He is completely entitled to his opinion about how long dev time should be and that the LBD change should not have happened. I’ve got no problem with that opinion. 
 

BTW, I fully expect you guys to call it 15 years by time we get to the end of 2023…

Well What mean LBD?

Well i don't  shocked why people complaing.

Correct me if i  make timeline mistake okay?

in 2016 we get A16. And if i good remember bandits were added too ( as test enemies) so..... 7dtd was almost completed in 2016. 

If they added them to A17 or a 18 we could say everything is completed ( traders quests are some type of story right?)

And now we have 2022 a lot of changes happend since 2016 and...  i feel cheated.  This video "say" what i mean- this looks like horror game in ps1 or 2 style. and i expected something similiar in future- survival sandbox horror game.  now we get... mad max with zombies. Ofc we have better graphic but still - this could be done in l4d2 ( let's say a18 in 2018 was break point), metal gear survival or the last of us style. i have bad feeling when we get turrets but i was thinking it was done in this way to make crafting more logical - msg usemg as turret gun  mobile dead trigger have something similar too. But after that we have more and more mad max vibes. And now look at A11 screens,  forum background and life action trailer- how it's looks?  like something in walking dead and days gone stle. now looks on new guns models, outfits concept arts - what we get? something between  mad max and fallout 3. i feel cheated and dissapointed. Can i change past? no. But at least i can proof that in 2016 7dtd was almost done   

Btw sorry for grammar mistakes, i'm tired XD

 

[Maharin]

I’m an information laxative. 

Oral laxative or... nevermind.