PC Alpha 19 Dev Diary

[stallionsden]

Why do they have to be aiming at any type of zombie genre?  It's a survival game not a book or movie.  The same way Minecraft didn't have any lore for years and years until story mode.  And indeed why would they have to choose an existing genre of zombies?  Why couldn't they have their own unique variant of zombies?  You don't need to know their life stories or biologies or anything, build/kill/survive, that's the game.  Until such point they add lore and story anyways.  Also, what you mentioned are settings, not genres.  Sci Fi is the only genre you mentioned, the rest are settings or time periods.

As far as to why limbs don't cause bleeding when blown off?  First you need to explain how a 9mm round can explode an arm like you hit the arm with a small grenade.  Bullets don't work like that.  If we were REALLY concerned about accuracy you wouldn't be able to blow off an arm with anything smaller than a 50 cal.  Similarly clubs, sledgehammers, knives, spear stabs, stun batons, etc would not blow off an arm.   If the bleeding needs to be accurate and we're going to that level of nuance then it needs to be consistent, after all we are complaining about consistency right?

A zombies body decays because of the lifelessness of the body. as only the brain and the stem are still alive so as to be able to move those thru the nerve system in which the brain remembers the least amount of work needed to get to the core need of a zombie... your brains. so the body parts can fall off easily with a dead person as opposed to a alive one.

minecraft isnt beamed as a zombie game, whilest pre alpha 8 7dtd had partial minecraft  resemblence, 7dtd went a different route. anyways content to see what tfp end up with in the final product. and hope more clarity as to the zs they come up with and hopefully all will entwine and these oddities are corrected.

 

[Odetta]

 

[Ralathar44]

A zombies body decays because of the lifelessness of the body. as only the brain and the stem are still alive so as to be able to move those thru the nerve system in which the brain remembers the least amount of work needed to get to the core need of a zombie... your brains. so the body parts can fall off easily with a dead person as opposed to a alive one.

minecraft isnt beamed as a zombie game, whilest pre alpha 8 7dtd had partial minecraft  resemblence, 7dtd went a different route. anyways content to see what tfp end up with in the final product. and hope more clarity as to the zs they come up with and hopefully all will entwine and these oddities are corrected.

Nothing you said makes a 9mm bullet fired from a pistol explode an arm like the bullet was a grenade either, which you need to explain if you want to complain about how an exploded arm doesn't bleed or how bleed damage hurts a zombie.  Even if the arm is rotted it would not make the arm explode off.  It'd just make a bullet more likely to completely penetrate and leave a hole, which would ironically result in LESS damage to the arm than normal.  Bullets are designed to mushroom for this very reason, because by mushrooming it spread out the surface area of the bullet on the target to make a larger hole.  Similarly the arm has to stop the bullet for any transmission of force.  The less resistance the arm provides the less force would be transmitted to the arm.

So if we really want to be accurate then we need to remove decaps of head/limbs from everything that isn't an axe/machete/explosive and maybe shovel.  And that'd be just one of a great deal of changes we'd need to make if we were looking for consistent realism and immersion.

 

[stallionsden]

Nothing you said makes a 9mm bullet fired from a pistol explode an arm like the bullet was a grenade either, which you need to explain if you want to complain about how an exploded arm doesn't bleed or how bleed damage hurts a zombie.  Even if the arm is rotted it would not make the arm explode off.  It'd just make a bullet more likely to completely penetrate and leave a hole, which would ironically result in LESS damage to the arm than normal.  Bullets are designed to mushroom for this very reason, because by mushrooming it spread out the surface area of the bullet on the target to make a larger hole.  Similarly the arm has to stop the bullet for any transmission of force.  The less resistance the arm provides the less force would be transmitted to the arm.

So if we really want to be accurate then we need to remove decaps of head/limbs from everything that isn't an axe/machete/explosive and maybe shovel.  And that'd be just one of a great deal of changes we'd need to make if we were looking for consistent realism and immersion.

Wrong a dead person the  body has decay and rot. A zombie has no blood unless freshly turned. The blood in a dead person  drains out dries up and clots to a solid form. Thus rendering the bullet quite capable to remove the limb from the rest of the body if the bullet hits the joint thus rendering any skin attached to that section null and void as it is rotted decayed and well dead. 

Yes bringing realism into it. But when others want to bring realism in they can to suit their own needs. 

So in using realism depending on decay rate of body and the length a time that corpse has been dead for will also depend on how far away you can be to remove that limb from that joint. 

Ofc for a bullet from a weapon the distance one would come into the equation as well and it would be aporoximate to the weapon used ofc.

 

[xglossy]

this place is really awsome, thank you

 

[Ralathar44]

Wrong a dead person the  body has decay and rot. A zombie has no blood unless freshly turned. The blood in a dead person  drains out dries up and clots to a solid form. Thus rendering the bullet quite capable to remove the limb from the rest of the body if the bullet hits the joint thus rendering any skin attached to that section null and void as it is rotted decayed and well dead.

Tell me, in your bloodless zombie how do the muscles function?  No blood, no air, no way to get nutrients to them.  This goes for the nerves that send them the signals too.  Nutrients have to be delivered to all the various cells for them to function.  Blood is also highly necessary in digestion, which is how we get new energy. 

While a person can survive off the nutrients in their body for some time, that's because they have blood to distribute those nutrients taken from the rest of the body.  With no blood flow the cells quickly lose the ability to function.  Muscle damage occurs within about 6 hours even when only a tourniquet is used and that doesn't even completely stop the flow of blood.

So your bloodless zombie is running off of a magical energy source that is magically delivered to each cell, including the nerves and muscles of course.  If magic is involved then everything makes sense because magic and realism goes right out the window.  Even if we take your comment at face value all you've done is create a new problem.

 

[faatal]

Zombies are not dead, since dead creatures cannot move without some force acting on them. If they are dead, then it must be the hive mind using telekinesis to move them about.

 

[Roland]

What comes first? Lyrics or tune? Do you write the poetry and then find music to fit it or do you compose the tune and then seek words to fit that.

TFP is establishing fun first and then will use their imagination to fit some lore to it that is still loose enough that players can use their imagination to fill in the gaps.

Some of you want the lore first and then fit the fun to that but that is not the only way to do it.

 

[stallionsden]

Tell me, in your bloodless zombie how do the muscles function?  No blood, no air, no way to get nutrients to them.  This goes for the nerves that send them the signals too.  Nutrients have to be delivered to all the various cells for them to function.  Blood is also highly necessary in digestion, which is how we get new energy. 

While a person can survive off the nutrients in their body for some time, that's because they have blood to distribute those nutrients taken from the rest of the body.  With no blood flow the cells quickly lose the ability to function.  Muscle damage occurs within about 6 hours even when only a tourniquet is used and that doesn't even completely stop the flow of blood.

So your bloodless zombie is running off of a magical energy source that is magically delivered to each cell, including the nerves and muscles of course.  If magic is involved then everything makes sense because magic and realism goes right out the window.  Even if we take your comment at face value all you've done is create a new problem.

Well actually its nerves that still function not muscles. Maybe need to research how the body functions. Muscle will turn to fat and fat will disintegrate. 

The brain more so the brain stem since it the only part alive sends impulses thru the nerves which move the body. Your muscles dont actually move body parts.  The only part that does that is the penis.  Which is muscle stimulated via nerves as well. As well as  your tongue which  is pure muscle. 

When a zombie eats it replenishes and diminishes the need so much to feed cause it needs to feed to keep the nerves going and the brain stem going. A zombie that doesnt eat will die eventually from not eating as the nerves and brain stem will die again. 

Same when you die in real life your muscle turns to fat your blood solidifies and dissipates. As well as body rots and decays etc. Eventually your body is just skeleton. Nothing magical about how the body works if ya know what your talking about...

Zombies are not dead, since dead creatures cannot move without some force acting on them. If they are dead, then it must be the hive mind using telekinesis to move them about.

Zombies are dead in every iteration of the zombie genre no matter which you look at they are dead. Regardless which genre. 

Anything that isnt dead is still alive and thus not classified as a zombie. Already explained the workings of the body after "death" and how a zombie would move after "death"

 

[Blake_]

What comes first? Lyrics or tune? Do you write the poetry and then find music to fit it or do you compose the tune and then seek words to fit that.

TFP is establishing fun first and then will use their imagination to fit some lore to it that is still loose enough that players can use their imagination to fill in the gaps.

Some of you want the lore first and then fit the fun to that but that is not the only way to do it.

I am partial to TFP doing whatever the Rekt they want with the lore and/or the gameplay. IMO they end up doing the right thing 90% of the time and if Zds bleed and they won't change it, let 'em bleed goshdarnit.

 

[stallionsden]

I am partial to TFP doing whatever the Rekt they want with the lore and/or the gameplay. IMO they end up doing the right thing 90% of the time and if Zds bleed and they won't change it, let 'em bleed goshdarnit.

The bleed thing isnt the issue.  Its you can cut a limb or slice and dice a limb and the z bleeds out. But when you blow off a limb they dont bleed out. Conflicting results 

 

[Blake_]

The bleed thing isnt the issue.  Its you can cut a limb or slice and dice a limb and the z bleeds out. But when you blow off a limb they dont bleed out. Conflicting results 

I also agree with that statement. Making them not bleed would only enrich the gameplay when human npcs are in. The thing is, why all the fuss? when we get human npcs they will think about it and put it in or out (not in the Snowdog sense).

 

[Ralathar44]

Well actually its nerves that still function not muscles. Maybe need to research how the body functions. Muscle will turn to fat and fat will disintegrate.  Your muscles dont actually move body parts. 

Guess the astronauts should have just focused on their nerves since muscles are not important.  Alright, this is ridiculous, I'm out.  I concede all points.  Your bloodless zombies with muscles that function forever without outside nutrients/energy but aren't actually needed to move body parts are entirely realistic.

 

[stallionsden]

Guess the astronauts should have just focused on their nerves since muscles are not important.  Alright, this is ridiculous, I'm out.  I concede all points.  Your bloodless zombies with muscles that function forever without outside nutrients/energy but aren't actually needed to move body parts are entirely realistic.

Urgh the muscle decays to fat and the disappears  its nerves i stated over and over its the nerves that move. Thanks i finished ages ago but you kept replying.  

 

[SnowDog1942]

put it in

Mmmmmmmmmm

 

[Ralathar44]

Urgh the muscle decays to fat and the dissappears  its nerves i stated over and over its the nerves that move. Thanks i finished agesbago but you kept replying.  

Yup, that's my bad, I apologize.  You were right about every little aspect.  Nerves move the body, muscles don't at all.  I should have never disagreed with you. It's over.  Ages ago.

 

[Quantum Blue]

Zombies are dead in every iteration of the zombie genre no matter which you look at they are dead. Regardless which genre. 

Anything that isnt dead is still alive and thus not classified as a zombie. Already explained the workings of the body after "death" and how a zombie would move after "death"

That's not completely correct.  There are a few movies (and franchises) in which not dead, but infected, people are referred to as zombies.  The movie 28 Days Later, which MadMole has said 7D2D borrows from, is infected people, which are referred to by a lot of people as zombies.

And, you could state, that some people, including the director himself has said they are not zombies, but many others would say that maybe the word zombie is like the words literally and ironic.  They used to mean one thing, and now they almost mean something very different.  And, maybe unfortuantely, the new definitions are appearing in dictionaries, so...

People change.  Language evolves.  And TFP can call the antogonists anything they want - even if it's a new definition of an existing word.  (Especially if they believe some/any/most people could/would identify with their term and might help sales.)

 

[stallionsden]

That's not completely correct.  There are a few movies (and franchises) in which not dead, but infected, people are referred to as zombies.  The movie 28 Days Later, which MadMole has said 7D2D borrows from, is infected people, which are referred to by a lot of people as zombies.

And, you could state, that some people, including the director himself has said they are not zombies, but many others would say that maybe the word zombie is like the words literally and ironic.  They used to mean one thing, and now they almost mean something very different.  And, maybe unfortuantely, the new definitions are appearing in dictionaries, so...

People change.  Language evolves.  And TFP can call the antogonists anything they want - even if it's a new definition of an existing word.  (Especially if they believe some/any/most people could/would identify with their term and might help sales.)

if the director of a movie states they are not zombies then they are not zombies. what some may put them as is completely wrong and then distracts from what the director was trying to accomplish from the movie. thus brings back to the point they arent zombies as to what the director stated.

 

[Ralathar44]

People change.  Language evolves.  And TFP can call the antogonists anything they want - even if it's a new definition of an existing word.  (Especially if they believe some/any/most people could/would identify with their term and might help sales.)

Walkers, Zeds, Necrophage, the undead, Abominations, the Scourge, Dead Heads, Freakers, Geeks, Ghouls, Infected, Lurkers, Meat Bags, Monsters, Mudo, Noob, Necrotics, Risen, Rotters, Runners, Shufflers, Stiffs, Them, The Living Dead, The Ressurected, The Unconsecrated, The Unmentionables, V-ACT, Whiskey Deltas, Zekes, ZQN.

There are alot of different names for zombies and different ones after have unique characteristics.

 

[Quantum Blue]

if the director of a movie states they are not zombies then they are not zombies. what some may put them as is completely wrong and then distracts from what the director was trying to accomplish from the movie. thus brings back to the point they arent zombies as to what the director stated.

Exactly!  So if MM/TFP wants to call the antagonists Zombies - they can!

From almost any dictionary:

INFORMAL
a person who is or appears lifeless, apathetic, or completely unresponsive to their surroundings.
From yahoo:

The term is now used to describe a fictional being, a reanimated body which has no goal other than the need to eat the flesh of the living.

The term will come to mean whatever a great deal of people want it to mean.

(Just like literally and ironic.)