PC You can't say that this not purposefully punative.

Depends on the player. Some will love the surprise deaths, others will hate them, and some will be ambivalent about it.
IDK how much this particular person has played A17. Perhaps not much and so he's still relying on A16 'rules' in which bumrushing worked a lot better. Maybe that will work to A17's benefit with new players because they won't have old habits to unlearn.
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The guy in the video said he's been playing since pre-alpha.

Either way I hope they can find a way to make it well-received for both new and HC players. TFP need to get paid for their work, and they won't get paid if new players are driven away, and if they don't get paid then we all stop getting updates.

 
Hey, if the devs cheese things, you go ahead a cheese away too! :)

It can be as simple as 200% loot and daily airdrops (together, its actually a pretty big deal)

-or-

You can go so far as mod the xml files. In one game I turned my humble stone axe into Mjolnir. It was a fun game for a while.

 
Very little POI looting is needed that early in the game. He should have been looting the easy loot and working on his base while building up his character before going into the dungeon POIs. Play smarter not harder.

 
Those are sleeper positions which I feel should be moved, into a place where it makes sense. In closets I'm ok, maybe they are avoiding sunlight. But up in locations a zombie can't actually get to? That makes no sense :)
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How about this?

After a brush with a zombie and unknowingly already infected, they took refuge in a nearby home, removed the false ceiling, crawled up there to hide and replaced the ceiling panel behind them.

Maybe a stretch but still plausible?

 
By D8 he should have learned that much of what the video shows is NOT going to work.

1. ALWAYS have the cheap bandages on your hotbar, they're practically free to make so no excuse not to.

2. ALWAYS carry food with you to heal, if you can't then you should be working on that problem and not out looting POIs.

3. When you have low stamina do not use a high stam use tool as a weapon. He had 3 guns he could have used when running out to not have the no stamina problem.

4. NEVER go thru a POI and leave unopened/uncleared areas behind you. Clear as you go so you have an exit. This is A17. You most likely WILL NEED an exit when looting most POIs.

5. Do not leave your base with NOTHING to go try and retrieve your bag. Have at least a good backup club and some bandages in a quick grab chest. He was just asking for a death spiral.

6. He admits in the video that he should have prepared with stamina drinks as soon as he saw and recognized that it was a Dungeon POI. So he KNEW going in it was going to be a hard one and did NONE of the simple things to prepare himself. (bandages on hotbar etc)

7. Reenters said POI after death with a half drained stam bar AND half drained HP bar. What did he expect to happen other than what did?

This really all boils down to one simple thing. THIS IS NOT A16 where you can just yolo on in and expect to clean house. You have to play smart. Or die like an idiot time after time. We can see which he chose in the video.

 
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How about this?
After a brush with a zombie and unknowingly already infected, they took refuge in a nearby home, removed the false ceiling, crawled up there to hide and replaced the ceiling panel behind them.

Maybe a stretch but still plausible?
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The Duke's men took five infected prisoners, slit their throats, and stashed them up there as a trap for unsuspecting survivors not part of their faction.

 
Ktr:Yes. YOU as a player expect it, either because you have played this or similar games a lot or you are generally more cautious...
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Probably a bit of all of the above. My first survival horror games were RE1 and RE2 where the character moved like a tank and you weren't allowed to see around corners without exposing yourself completely to whatever was right around the corner. That said, I was much less cautious in A16 because about the only thing that frustrated me were the irradiated cops. Everything else I could either outmaneuver and/or soak the damage (I meleed a lot in A16). I took a couple of hard knocks in A17 that shook me back to being cautious real fast.

But there is no in-game reason for loot to attract zombies.They are no predator!

They should be where:

They lived/died, there is food/smell, or on the move looking for pray.

Remember that old poi, that one with the small barricaded settlement in it?

That is the best poi (worldbuilding wise) in the entire game.

There are loads of zombies (they tried to hide in there before getting infected) the loot is good, because they stached it and even the landmine makes sense.
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The one with the Food Mart, the Med building with the large water tower in the center? I love that POI. It's still one of my favorites in the game for many of the reasons that you mention. JFR, I don't disagree with you on the general principle - at least not by much. This might just be a case where it doesn't throw me as much out of the world as it does for you. (If you think that summation of your position is a fair assessment.)

If you have played skyrim:You enter a dungeon where everything is blooming with life. Would you expect a bad creature (hargraven, necromancer...) or a lifegiving spriggan in there, even though they are easier to kill?
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I probably have enough hours in Skyrim that I should hang my head in shame! It was my favorite for a long time. And I do get your point. I hope TFPs do noodle around and fine tune the world building more. But I am willing to forgive some dissonance for the fact that we do have a wide variety of POIs now that I think do lend a depth that the world was lacking. All the towns and cities felt exactly the same up through A16. My personal preference would have been less 'dungeons' and more the settlement style where the pathways aren't dictated by difficulty so much as 'what were these people trying to do to protect themselves'. I do see some of that in the POIs though. Rooms and doors barred, hasty escapes cobbled together to make one last failed stand in the attic (or basement) and other such details that I have very much enjoyed.

Not everything has to be about challenging the player. Sometimes, consistent world building is more important.
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Mostly agreed. I love world building. It's my favorite part of video games, books, movies, and more. But, I'm also okay with adding in more challenges that may not fall in line with world building because there are people who really want that kind of push. I definitely don't want to see all POI efforts go into dungeon building either. There are some of the houses, for example, that I wish had just been made regular houses where the residents had lived and died instead of a weird maze twisting through the rooms.

 
There's tons of dangers like this in various POIs. There's no magic barrier, just the sound you make triggers aggro like all sleepers. Get to the door, pop an arrow in one and back up. Kite them out and kill them.

I died a few times early on as I learned to be really, really careful exploring new places. I lost all my stuff twice. It was frustrating but that's the nature of challenges. If I knew I was always going to win and it was designed to always be something I could easily handle I would get bored and play something else. Given that my AI is more adaptable than the games zombie AI the developers have to use dirty tricks, just like I do, to keep the risk there.

Every player has a stck of dirty, bordering on exploitive tricks they use to kill zombies. That's totally okay. If th developers similarly use brutal tricks to get the player that's not okay?

I learned to be super cautious and am eay less likely to get caught in spots like this. If you can't handle groups of tough zombies, at any day, you're playing the game wrong.

 
The Duke's men took five infected prisoners, slit their throats, and stashed them up there as a trap for unsuspecting survivors not part of their faction.
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I like this variation. It was either a trap all along or a truly diabolical way of keeping supplies safe. Kind of like the Wolves or Whisperers in TWD.

 
The Dukes men could have easily used the teleport machine the player uses when they "die" and the zombies "eat their guts". The aliens obviously forgot to retreave their machine once they teleported the zombie virus into 51% of humanity. (The warranty had expired no doubt).

 
Thanks krt.

And yeah I totally understand if someone doesn't mind it that much. We all enjoy other things.

But most people just say "oh its just not A16 get gud" and don't even care that I'm not arguing difficulty because I've played on insane since forever and felt its too easy.

They think because they like it or don't mind it as much, that makes it good/acceptable.

But I want this game to be great.

And it had so much promise in A16 that they just threw away to make it a bit harder.

THIS is why I try and argue with people, even though they don't want to listen.

Because I know I could make this game OBJECTIVELY better. But oh whatever... I'm just a hater who can't adapt, even though I already played A17 on insane and survived my first hordenight without dying, no matter how broken spawning and zombie damage is.

Hater out.

 
I love how everyone is trying to find flaws in his playstyle.
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Well the OP kind of set himself up for it with his combative attitude. I agree there is still some balancing to be done still. TFP has already make some tweeks in the last updates we have and i'm sure more are coming.

Still The OP's obsessive instance that his pick axe was the best weapon he had despite having some firearms leads me to believe he needs to adjust his playstyle and it's not so much the game.

Hit for Hit a Pick might do more than a gun. In a tight situation a gun allows you to:

Fire rapidly, possibly doing more dps than the pick over time.

Allow you to dps at range avoiding hits.

Not deplete your precious stamina.

You can't run in all whack a mole and expect to succeed.

 
this thread is a great read while sitting at work lmao, guy comes in with his temper flaring, community say his friend play stupidly...

I wish my work had popcorn haha

 
All I saw out of the video was someone setting themselves up for failure. What's with all of these "This sucks and you CANT say anything different!" statements? lol

 
Not watching the video so I don't know if he was on a quest or just busted into a random POI, but aside from his own obvious bad play(and yes, for an experienced player doing all the things he did simultaneously is obvious badplay) I do think it is a bit crazy to run into ferals on T1 quests, which has happened to me repeatedly - but again my deaths there would have been avoidable (probably, I kinda struggle with ferals in general lol), but like many experienced players here I still have unlearning to do for A17. An excellent point brought up earlier in the thread, as a noob he had nothing to unlearn.

this thread is a great read while sitting at work lmao, guy comes in with his temper flaring, community say his friend play stupidly...
I wish my work had popcorn haha
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Was thinking exactly the same thing. Have some popcorn.

 
Saw where he died. Dude is a freaken idiot and the comment section on his own channel is also tearing him apart for playing like a moron. Dude drank beer and ran into a room power swinging a pick axe that killed his stamina. He had guns but didn't use them, no way to heal a bleeding effect like others have said. He could have easily survived if he wasn't playing so terribly. Don't blame someone who is obviously playing bad on a game. Is this alpha 17 experimental perfect no, but don't blame his death on anything else besides his terrible gameplay.

 
Yeah, this was just poor planning by the player. I wouldnt dare loot a place with the potential of having running enemies without both bandages & stamina drinks on my hotbar. That small strategy alone would have let him survive this situation. I've been saying it since the A12 days... always have those stamina drinks on your belt. If you cant beat em, you can at least be guaranteed to run away from em.

 
the difference between me and him is that I was prepared to fight anything or find an exit immediately. If you aren't a problem solver and jump to complain at any sort of difficulty, maybe video games aren't for you.
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I'm proud that you would have done things differently. I totally agree that video games aren't for this guy who runs a gaming channel with 800,000+ subscribers. What is he thinking trying to play 7D2D?

 
I see a lot of people criticizing his game play but a lot of people really did not listen to his explanation.

* His guns are useless. Almost no ammo! As stated by him. Almost every person here that commented did not bother to finish the video it seems. Also his guns are useless as he was unable to get back to his backpack easily on first dead. And the "experts" here know that firing those guns in a closed building, will have been a even bigger dead sentence with Zombie cells triggering all around.

* Bandages are useless in his situation as they only restore the HP bar, not health. His mistake for not having any to stop bleeding damage, yes but with him getting 2 shot by the feral, no bandage is going to save you anyway.

* Yes, he made a mistake running in the room but having feral's on Day 8 showing up is unreasonable. Too many POIs have ferals from the start. He learns from this mistake but that did not diminish his issues with the game.

* No food to heal. He had almost no food ( 9 meat at home, that was it. That is one grilled meat at best ). People think because they had a good game with lots of food, that everybody their start is as easy.

* Zombies in hidden spots is breaking the whole "people died and becomes zombies" meta.

- Zombies in hidden roof spots

- Zombies in beer vats ( 8! ) that only get triggered when you run close by.

- Zombies in cabinets

- Zombies behind fake walls.

Its all too much designed to create a "horror" effect but it breaks in my eyes the feeling of the world. The idea that the "Duke" is going to let valuable loot laying around but places infected prisoners everywhere in hidden spots is ridiculous. Let alone that some of those turn out into green feral! By that logic, the Duke is a idiot because he leaves real loot around, when he can just leave a empty container + hidden zombies. Voila, just broke the whole "The Duke did it" meta.

* People complaining about his play style but totally ignoring the points he made. Steal is broken and triggers zombies way to easily on every bump.

* He is not a new player ( he played 18 alphas if you count pre alpha ). He made a few mistakes but a lot of people seem to think they are so experts. I bet a lot of people here have also a lot of embarrassing moments when they first discovered hidden ferals. But act all brave now :cocksure:

I personally HATE hidden Zombies as its feels so meta breaking in the game. You can so tell that the developers deliberately made those trigger spots and there is nothing natural about them.

It was my impression, that with sleepers we will have had: You enter a home, in the dark attic you see a body. It may be a sleeper, it may be a dead body. But instead we get standing still zombies in deliberately made cubicles and holes, just to be trigger by players passing specific spots. It feels like a lazy way to create cheap horror effects.

I even find the whole Ferals just as him ridiculous. They use the same texture / model assets and most of the time you do not even see their eyes. At minimum introduce some different models with different sounds for ferals instead of cheeping out with the same model every time.

Let alone how many zombies are in houses??? A lot of houses have so many zombies, that a town that holds maybe 200 people based upon the houses, seems to hold 1000+ zombies. Its like this with every town, building, poi. It turns the game from quality to quantity.

Yes, it plays like a brand new game but its not the game that i spend money on. And i am not the only person with this attitude.

 
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