PC Why you broke your game

[crazywildfire]

I think this argument - which I’ve heard from others - is missing the whole point of experimental! This is EXACTLY the right time to cry about balance issues!
TFP are actively looking for this sort of feedback now (or if they aren’t, they’re missing a trick). Experimental is the time when systems are being tuned. Stable is the time when “no one complained about it during experimental, so just suck it up”.

This is the time to talk about balancing not cry about it. I have seen post in threads cry to a degree of how tfp should be ashamed or how dare them not have it right and perfect. It is experimental and not going to be perfect or balanced to the tee and if one can't talk about it and feels they need to bash tfp about it then that is the difference.

 

[Vomkat]

This is the worst time to talk about balancing, because a lot of the final settings can and are going to be changed at the last moment. They are easy to change, and have nothing to do with the underlying code. You guys don't understand the programming process. Experimental means they are looking for BUGS, this is not a gameplay balance experiment.

 

[crazywildfire]

This is the worst time to talk about balancing, because a lot of the final settings can and are going to be changed at the last moment. They are easy to change, and have nothing to do with the underlying code. You guys don't understand the programming process. Experimental means they are looking for BUGS, this is not a gameplay balance experiment.

That is why they have a bug section for that. This is general discussion. So yes one can freely talk about what they feel could use work. For example not that I agree it should of been turned down to 30 minutes as I personally felt one hour was fine for the dp but they made a adjustment because of some feedback from here while they was working on the bugs.

 

[Vomkat]

You can freely talk about whatever you want. Other people will tell you to quit crying and shut your yap. Nothing worse than seeing a forum full of whiny threads where someone is complaining about how terrible the game is now because of this latest unbalanced OPTIONAL EXPERIMENTAL ALPHA. Yah, they totally broke the game, it's never ever ever gonna work ever again. 7 Days to Die is dead now.

 

[crazywildfire]

You can freely talk about whatever you want. Other people will tell you to quit crying and shut your yap. Nothing worse than seeing a forum full of whiny threads where someone is complaining about how terrible the game is now because of this latest unbalanced OPTIONAL EXPERIMENTAL ALPHA. Yah, they totally broke the game, it's never ever ever gonna work ever again. 7 Days to Die is dead now.

Those are the differences. If you come across saying they broke the game or how it it is terrible now then yes I would say that is crying. If you come across to talk about how you feel it can be improved and how this or that would be more balancing then I would say that is good feedback regardless if someone else agrees or not.

If you put someone talking about a change and someone crying about it in the same category then I don't know what to tell you besides we will just have to agree to disagree at that point.

 

[Yisiscreise]

Completely agree with every point in the OP

You base this on what happens in this forum. Where not even 0.5% of the playerbase are active. And a large part of the regulars on here have the "Whatever they do is good as long as it´s challenging enough for people with 2k plus hours and modable" mindset.

THIS, in my server use to be playing like 30 or 40 people, but maybe of those 40 only 2 o 3 maybe check this forum sometimes, and write... wel... im here.

Most of the player base is not happy with the things that OP has talked about

 

[R0bb0b]

This game needed nerfing overall. It was too easy to be strong and progress was too quick and uneven.

Okay, yes. You are right. A nerfing definitely was in order. But that's not all that they did now is it? No, they completely gutted the entire perk system that they had been working on for some time now. A system with multiple experience pools that could automatically mold itself around the player's gaming style with lots of room for tweaking, expansion, and yes, nerfing. Nerf it, that's fine, but don't completely destroy what I considered, IMO, to be the unbalanced master piece in the making of A16 and trade it for a basic skill tree that feeds off of one single xp pool.

Don't get me wrong. I love the new Zombie AI and the fact that there is no longer hiding from them. That's a massive upgrade in the game. I also love the new dungeon crawls. The buzzard AI is awesome. The game looks beautiful. The new skill tree makes me want to vomit.

I guess I was expecting a combination of the experience gain style of A16 that would feed into a new skill tree. I was not expecting them to throw the entire thing out and I was not expecting the entire game to be level gated by one single experience pool. Sometimes I just want to craft and sometimes I just want to build and sometimes, yes I want to kill Zombies. But if killing zombies is all I wanted to do then Dying Light has a much better system than 7dtd for that.

 

[Ghostlight]

I strongly agree with OP on two front:

Progression: went from satisfying to bland

Gating: character building went from satisfying and personal, to predictable and bland

That word "bland". I just keep thinking it whenever I think of A17.

 

[Guest]

If people with criticism want their points to be seriously considered, maybe they shouldn't start their threads with "why you broke your game" or other hyperbolic opinions. It doesn't work. Your other points are rehashes of arguments that have taken place a hundred times over by now, with a lot of them already being addressed by TFP (more mods are being added, XP gain will be spread over more activities, stamina was already buffed, bicycle level gate lowered, etc.)

Although I think that TFP could do better in communicating what changes they are working on, acting like they don't give a sh*t about player criticism is just misguided and makes you look like a typical entitled and petulant gamer man-child.

There are plenty of things I'd loved to see changed in A17, but I actually feel discouraged to voice my criticism because every thread gets hijacked by people insisting that the game has been ruined, even though it's obvious they never bothered to play past their first few deaths and are way too attached to their A16 habits.

 

[BloodDeacon]

I don't agree with much of what you've posted here, but #9 is an obvious issue. The new system is such an absolute step down from A16, which in turn was such a huge step up from A15 (simply by virtue of eliminating spam-crafting and tweaking skill requirements). Among its greatest offenders is the dumbing down of progression: while you can specialize in whatever manner you want, the best and generally only efficient way to get there is purely through killing as many zombies as possible in as little time as possible. The few previous alphas had a bit of built-in flexible gating such that if you wanted to become a base builder, you could substitute a bit of time mining and assembling and disassembling things with construction tools to lessen the required skill cost of getting the perks you need (e.g. concrete mixing). To be a competent sniper, you could invest a bit of time sniping zombies from your base at night, rather than simply spending points directly.

I know some people prefer the apparent flexibility of the new system, but removing the "learn by doing" avenue and using one general XP pool has made optimal game-play strategy for A17 woefully generic. Balancing general XP gain for multiple builds/activities is theoretically possible going forward if specializations are taken into account, but doing so strikes me as a very difficult task.

 

[Eyegore]

Crying about balance issues in an experimental build of an alpha? Shame on you.

Thanks for providing a perfect example of what Op was talking about when constructive criticism is casually derided by fanboys.

I've been playing the game for four years and I've seen it get steadily, with each release, a little bit better and worse at the same time. I've almost lost hope in the devs turning this around, and now I expect that modders will ultimately fix the game, once TFP have finished reinventing it over and over while ignoring basic promises like ZIPLINES. It's been over four years. We should all be playing a sequel to this game by now.

 

[RestInPieces]

ignoring basic promises like ZIPLINES

And thank god they did, it was nothing more than a problem-inviting, silly idea.

 

[Eyegore]

And thank god they did, it was nothing more than a problem-inviting, silly idea.

I disagree, and have no idea how you'd come to that conclusion. Regardless, Ziplines were a legit Kickstarter goal that people paid for and expect to be in the final game. Like it or not, it's required.

 

[RestInPieces]

I disagree, and have no idea how you'd come to that conclusion. Regardless, Ziplines were a legit Kickstarter goal that people paid for and expect to be in the final game. Like it or not, it's required.

What would they offer in terms of gameplay, other than a cheap way to avoid zombies completely?

 

[DaVegaNL]

Thanks for providing a perfect example of what Op was talking about when constructive criticism is casually derided by fanboys.
I've been playing the game for four years and I've seen it get steadily, with each release, a little bit better and worse at the same time. I've almost lost hope in the devs turning this around, and now I expect that modders will ultimately fix the game, once TFP have finished reinventing it over and over while ignoring basic promises like ZIPLINES. It's been over four years. We should all be playing a sequel to this game by now.

Lol.. Promises?

Over 4 years.. Sequel? Yeah if you're used to COD and the like...

- - - Updated - - -

I disagree, and have no idea how you'd come to that conclusion. Regardless, Ziplines were a legit Kickstarter goal that people paid for and expect to be in the final game. Like it or not, it's required.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/7daystodie/7-days-to-die-zombie-survival-game
A legit kickstarter goal?

Could you point me to where you find that on their kickstarter?

If not, please stop.

 

[RestInPieces]

 

[Jedo]

You're off to a bad start on facts if that is indeed the theme of your thread.

Agreed. Some of his complaints are fine, but he really leaps to conclusions. None of these things amounts to TFP having "taken away" something. It might be changed beyond what some like, but not gone.

And while I'm here, I'll slip in that people really should stop with the appeals to the masses. Nobody has a corner on the market. Claiming that "the people on your server or on Steam" feel one way isn't useful. There are servers which do not have that problem. There are plenty of people who don't bother with forums or servers. Appealing to the masses is a rhetorical device designed to make your position seem more important, that's all.

 

[Exxodous]

So every time any one of the many players give negative feedback on here they get called emotional, aggressive, combative, are told they dont know the game, are playing it wrongly or that its alpha and any of a multitude of other reasons why their feedback is not wanted or wrong.
So here is some factual feedback for you.

Other than the first paragraph, nice job on being constructive and stating your opinions - notice I did not say facts...

1. Tools

2. Guns

3. Armor

In A17 a player can find, make or buy, tools of different levels of quality, this is a fact

In A17 a player will progress from poor quality tool to eventually Q6 tools, this gives a long progression curve and every time the player finds, or buys or makes a better tool they have progressed, this progression is satisfying.

The new tool system for example means lvl 1 fireaxe does the same damage as lvl 6 but has more durability, and the better quality ones have more mod slots that are hard to come by and are random in what you find. Other than durability there are 5 reasons to want a better tool than the one you find in a random container on day 1, ie mod slots, This increases the players sense of accomplishment because their progression is extended and more varied.

In other words, I'm far more excited to find a level 3 fire axe than I was an orange fire axe because I now have the ability to increase it's damage, accuracy, harvest rate, stamina usage etc. I'm sure there will be more mods to come that will make this even more enjoyable and satisfying.

4. Exploration

I'm having no problem here, still exploring and running. Bought a few perks and notice next to no difference to previous alpha

5. Claim stones

No opinion here as I play local MP with the Wife. It does sound as there is a legitimate concern involving claim stones however.

6. Zombie damage

Agree with this one. Seems a bit high to me, but I thought that sometimes in A16 too

7. Digging Zombies

Meh...I can take it or leave it on this one. Don't build underground much so I haven't been able to test it. I do like they will try and come through the floor above you however with I'm sure is a direct result of this change.

8. Bedrock depth

This is news to me but as stated earlier, don't go underground often.

9. Level Gating Perks

I'm finding a lot of specializing in this build. My wife and I build completely different characters. I like the skill tree but being gated by player level, I somewhat agree. Not sure how removing it would affect balance though.

10. Death Penalty.

LOVE IT! Makes me very cautious. Only change I'd make is instead of setting my perks to 1 maybe lower them by 50% of current level? Multiple deaths would continue to lower additional 50%

In summary you have improved the choices of players in many areas, such as how the player chooses to fight and their ability to do so. You have increase the difficulty of base building and forced me to be more creative. Their sense of progression in many many areas has increased (subjectively in my opinion) about 300%.

You have added some end game items (Jeep) which many players will strive for, and I'm looking forward to legendary weapons or armour or tools to be added. Hope to see bandits and more electricity in A18.

You have substantially improved the fun element of your game for a large proportion of your playerbase, I have 5 friends on steam who play 7dtd, this week i saw 'all' of them playing every time I was online and when i asked around they all told me it more fun than ever.

@Bloom - I'm sure TFP appreciates your feedback and I'm sorry you feel the game is broken. Remember it is a matter of perspective and ask yourself if this was a game that was never in EA and you just bought it, would you feel the same way or is it because it changed from previous builds. Because it seems your concerns are based off what "used" to be instead of looking at it as a "new" game. Which it basically is.

 

[Vomkat]

ignoring basic promises like ZIPLINES. It's been over four years.

lol ziplines, you are crying cuz the game doesn't have ziplines. lol! :rapture:

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

that sounds fun!

 

[ricp]

So, I took the time to read OP's somewhat self indulgent post. I agree on some things, such as level 1 guns having the same damage as level 6 guns. Now I understand the level is based on the modification and not the power but it seems unintuitive, it also removes the desire to find a better level weapon. If you are on a level 3, that will do you for ever as next to nobody is putting more than a couple of mods on things. Essentially the gun you find on day 1 could be the same gun you are using 20, 30, 50 or perhaps 100 days later.

However the rest of the post can be translated into the following claim, "I don't like what you have done with your game so you have ruined it for me".

This isn't A16; it doesn't play like A16, the skills don't work like A16, the world doesn't operate like A16, the AI is no like A16 and in general the crafting requirements are no longer like A16. To compare it to A16 claiming it's been ruined because it's not A16.5 is somewhat short sighted, imo, and is somewhat insulting to those who have spent considerably longer developing the game than you have playing it.

I'm not for negative feedback, but OP has not been constructive in any shape or form.