Grandpa Minion
Scavenger
spartan-85 just released a video of his population and it looks 81% of people voted to bring jars back
keep spreading false propaganda and ignoring what the mass of people want.
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Why DONT you want jars
- Thread starter Adam the Waster
- Start date
keep spreading false propaganda and ignoring what the mass of people want.
Rotor
Survivor
Except for the part about carrying the water there. Oh wait I have to go to the loo.
FenixMatariki
Refugee
I played Darkness falls recently and they still have jars. I made a forge day 1, dug up sand from the side of the road and crafted a stack of 120~ish jars over 20 mins. Then filled them from a ditch on the side of said road and boiled them, never caring about thirst for the rest of the play through. Can you explain how having infinite water day 1 vs a dew collector giving one water a day is the lazy option?
Grandpa Minion
Scavenger
sure its not just about water, its about the jars. Players used to have to craft them, for instance to make black strap coffee than take those jars somewhere to fill them meaning more travel and exploring was needed to do so. Than it becomes a trickle down effect, players had to farm glass to make the jars which means they had to travel to go get the glass.
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Kalen
Survivor
Maybe part of the problem is being able to get a forge on day 1? Thats not to say that crafting 200+ jars wasn't too easy, it was.... but, IMO, there were better ways to solve the problem then completely removing something from the game.
theFlu
Hunter
I guess you already did:
Why are you allowed a forge on D1?
Why aren't you worried about things _other_ than digging sand on D1? Like, say, looking for stuff to keep you alive until you can find a forge recipe?
FenixMatariki
Refugee
It's not like the early game zombies are a threat, Vanilla or DF, well unless your playing Hell on Earth difficulty. In which case the ■■■■ things slap.
Vanilla wise its actually easier than in DF to get a forge day one, the 10 leather is probably harder than the 5 books, as you will usually get 2-3 from looting the first trader.
Finally digging up the sand only took like 3 minutes out of a 60 minute day, that's hardly a challenge.
Yeah my problem was not so much the Jars themselves, it was how easy it was to get said jars and therefore infinite water using them. I don't particularly care if they are bought back, just don't want water to never be an issue, it's a survival game after all.
Based on what i said in the post you replied to, almost none of what you say is true. There is water everywhere so you don't have to do any significant traveling, and there is sand on the edge of every road as well so the resources needed are trivial.
Your suggestion that a forge, sand and water was a harder system than dew collectors limited jars of water per day boggled my mind.
Edit: As a side note, someone on reddit said he believed getting a workbench and making a t1 double barrel would be difficult before the end of the first week. I thought it would be achievable day 1 so i gave it a go. Managed to get the workbench down but only 7/11 of the shotgun messiah books by midnight on my first attempt.
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FenixMatariki
Refugee
Apologies friend for any insult offered, i think either you have misunderstood my reply, or i have misunderstood yours.
ALEXZANDER
Refugee
lies must be punished, agree
Kyoji
Survivor
I think a lot of the feedback from players I have seen is asking for jars to return but to also ADD IN coding to make it more difficult to get water. So people want jars, but they also want the developers to make it harder to get water. So it's not a one for one transition of the old water system basically.
TBH many of the ideas others had presented on the matter are bad so I still don't want non-consume on use jars back.
There will be people who still think that nearly 2k votes is a minority, so for those who dislike the idea of jars it won't stop them from whining about the silent majority rather than actually formulate proper arguments on why they shouldn't return.
FenixMatariki
Refugee
That's exactly why i stay on the side of not wanting Jars. Non consume jars does solve some of the problem but not all of it imo.
It's the same thing for removing Dew Collectors and returning to jars, i have yet to see a single good reason why jars are better.
haskhane
Refugee
Abandoning the game, don't you see that the Fun Pimps are ignoring us?
They have nothing to do and are incapable of properly mixing or modifying certain mechanics that we love.
Storms but no weather, no humidity, water but no jars, more crafting in the workbench, etc.
Good game mechanics removed that haven't been further developed and replaced by Fortnite, which I hate.
No more darkness; Fun Pimps blah blah.
Everything we love, Fun Pimps is gradually removing instead of polishing it.
And to top it off, they are making a new terrible game instead of making a 7 DAYS TO DIE 2 with a good graphic engine or their own graphic engine.
I expect nothing from the game anymore, they have chosen their future clients.
years spent only to end up betraying their own consumers.
no more immersion, no more pleasure, it's not the game that I loved, nor the one in which I told myself it was the future of survival games.
They have nothing to do and are incapable of properly mixing or modifying certain mechanics that we love.
Storms but no weather, no humidity, water but no jars, more crafting in the workbench, etc.
Good game mechanics removed that haven't been further developed and replaced by Fortnite, which I hate.
No more darkness; Fun Pimps blah blah.
Everything we love, Fun Pimps is gradually removing instead of polishing it.
And to top it off, they are making a new terrible game instead of making a 7 DAYS TO DIE 2 with a good graphic engine or their own graphic engine.
I expect nothing from the game anymore, they have chosen their future clients.
years spent only to end up betraying their own consumers.
no more immersion, no more pleasure, it's not the game that I loved, nor the one in which I told myself it was the future of survival games.
Just to be clear, the population of that poll is probably as skewed because of selection bias as this forum would be. I don't say who is the majority or minority, I just say that those numbers have to be taken with a grain of salt just like one would take a poll on this forum.
And actually a lot of people have put up arguments why they don't like the return of jars, just read this thread with open eyes.
Javabean867
Survivor
Yup people are lazy, they want to be able to get infinite water on day 1 by making a bunch of glass jars and running to the nearest water source, and never having to think about water again. You know as opposed to having it trickle in, looting the water from pois, and scrambling to have the water needed for glue, food and drink.
Grandpa Minion
Scavenger
there is litterally 6 pages in this thread about it....
either you have horrible comprehension skills or simply do not want to accept the fact removing jars (-1 7d2d survivability) (+1 another assest removed) those are two things alone.
Kyoji
Survivor
Likewise a lot have posted they do want them so if anything the forum is a 50/50 split I would argue. Combine that with the poll and you still have a majority who want them to return.
Keep in mind I am someone who doesn't want them to return and it's not because I have 7D2D cope, but rather I think it's wasted development time and many of the solutions people have offered are subpar in fixing the problem and go on to create further problems. So unless they make jars consume on use I don't see how they won't be problematic in other areas. Also, having to throw jars away is a stupid problem to have when you throw out so much stuff as it is. I don't even see that as an actual argument against jars.
Riamus
Hunter
Without polling every player (it at least the car majority of them), you can't say that the results of a poll are an accurate representation of the whole. However, you can take a step back from what you want to see and consider what is likely...
What group(s) of gamers generally would want jars? Those who want a simulation. Those who want a certain level of immersion and consider jars to be significant enough to hamper that. Who else?
Next, what group(s) of gamers generally don't care at all about jars? Casual gamers. Action gamers. RPG gamers.
Just looking at those two things and ignoring those who actively don't want jars back, it is pretty reasonable to think that most gamers don't even care about jars. And even if you disagree about the groups I listed, keeping in mind that I said generally and obviously you will have people who disagree in those groups, you can make your own group lists and then consider what percentage of gamers for into each group.
In the end, ignoring what each of us prefers and just looking at what the average gamer would actually care about should show that the majority don't even care about jars. Now, I won't argue about which group between those who want them and those who don't is more populous because there is no way to know that. But just looking at those who don't care about them at all, it should be clear that it is very probably that the majority don't care about them. That means that time spent bringing jars back will be time spent doing something most don't care about or else don't want.
Also, don't forget that most games that have you drink things do not give you back with containers. If this game has never done so, almost no one would complain about it. So what that means is that almost all new players (those who never saw empty jars in the game) aren't going to even notice that there aren't empty jars because they don't see those in most other games either. That alone takes out a large chunk of current players who actually want jars back.
What group(s) of gamers generally would want jars? Those who want a simulation. Those who want a certain level of immersion and consider jars to be significant enough to hamper that. Who else?
Next, what group(s) of gamers generally don't care at all about jars? Casual gamers. Action gamers. RPG gamers.
Just looking at those two things and ignoring those who actively don't want jars back, it is pretty reasonable to think that most gamers don't even care about jars. And even if you disagree about the groups I listed, keeping in mind that I said generally and obviously you will have people who disagree in those groups, you can make your own group lists and then consider what percentage of gamers for into each group.
In the end, ignoring what each of us prefers and just looking at what the average gamer would actually care about should show that the majority don't even care about jars. Now, I won't argue about which group between those who want them and those who don't is more populous because there is no way to know that. But just looking at those who don't care about them at all, it should be clear that it is very probably that the majority don't care about them. That means that time spent bringing jars back will be time spent doing something most don't care about or else don't want.
Also, don't forget that most games that have you drink things do not give you back with containers. If this game has never done so, almost no one would complain about it. So what that means is that almost all new players (those who never saw empty jars in the game) aren't going to even notice that there aren't empty jars because they don't see those in most other games either. That alone takes out a large chunk of current players who actually want jars back.
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theFlu
Hunter
Umm, "Because you know of better times, your opinion doesn't count"?
Riamus
Hunter
Huh? It takes out a lot of players because they (those I mentioned) are used to not having empty jars in this game and most other games, so aren't likely to even think about the jars not being there, especially with no other empty containers. And if they don't when notice the lack of empty jars, they obviously aren't asking for them to be added back.
I don't know how many new players this game actually has. What percent of active players started playing in A21 or more recently? It might not be really high, but then again, active players generally are those who are newer to a game, so it could be very high. Either way, it is a decent number of players.
theFlu
Hunter
Tihihi.. I've heard of socks, but jars of enjoyment..?
In the same paragraph I snipped the quote from: "If this game has never done so, almost no one would complain about it."
As in, "if only people didn't know about the past".
You're running two discounts* for the price of one in that para:
- this new gen z generation of players have never wanted them, they want their things spoonfed and milquetoast
- people wouldn't be complaining if they hadn't experienced the loss
* discountings of opinion. The first is My discounting of the "it's a needless complication on my survival puzzler, I don't want to deal with an inventory", the second is your discounting of my opinion essentially because I was here for the jars.