PC Why are the devs screwing over agi/stealth in their POI design?

[Yark]

There are two rooms I know for certain that are auto-aggro. It's a very poor argument to just say to plan ahead and adjust your playstyle, especially if you're the type of person to talk about realism. Imagine putting on heavy armor, and then having a few rooms in the game where your armor value is set to zero. This is the equivalent of having rooms where your stealth is simply negated.

This type of design - giving the benefit of the doubt and assuming it was intentional - is about as cringe as "The Fun Pimps" as a company name itself.

 

[JCrook1028]

is about as cringe as "The Fun Pimps" as a company name itself.

Best name for a gaming company EVER! I absolutely love it. 

 

[Danidas]

There are two rooms I know for certain that are auto-aggro. It's a very poor argument to just say to plan ahead and adjust your playstyle, especially if you're the type of person to talk about realism. Imagine putting on heavy armor, and then having a few rooms in the game where your armor value is set to zero. This is the equivalent of having rooms where your stealth is simply negated.

This type of design - giving the benefit of the doubt and assuming it was intentional - is about as cringe as "The Fun Pimps" as a company name itself.

The game is designed so that all you have to do is run away far enough to break aggro then you can swing back and restealth to take them out with sneak attacks. In other words no need to change your play style or load out at all and instead you just need to plan ahead just enough to be able to run away in the event they aggro. Which is no different then any other time that normal sleepers decide randomly to wake up after ignoring you for a uncomfortably long time.

 

[meganoth]

There are two rooms I know for certain that are auto-aggro. It's a very poor argument to just say to plan ahead and adjust your playstyle, especially if you're the type of person to talk about realism. Imagine putting on heavy armor, and then having a few rooms in the game where your armor value is set to zero. This is the equivalent of having rooms where your stealth is simply negated.

With a good explanation, why not? It would just be a special challenge (in other games it would be called a boss fight).

 

[Kalen]

especially if you're the type of person to talk about realism

You can pick up your 4x4 and put it in your backpack.... lets not focus too much on realism.

 

[Ramethzer0]

Roland is prolly one of the most communicative but also well-spoken forum mods I've seen in action.

 

[Vaeliorin]

Which is actually wrong as the auto aggro flag only comes into the play the exact second the zombies spawn into the world. As a result it's impossible to see auto aggro zombies in a sleeper state and the closest they can come is the awake state if your able to break their initial aggro on you.

What are you basing this on?  I've seen (admittedly in modded POIs) zombies that were in a "sleeping" state suddenly get up and auto-aggro (and I know they auto-aggroed because they were like 30 blocks away and I had max From The Shadows, all the stealth books and was sneaking.)

It's not really a big deal as I don't mind auto-aggro rooms so much (though in late game they make me want to carry a firearm which I don't normally do outside of horde night.)

 

[Aldranon]

I'm just talking game fun/excitement here as I don't know any lore that could explain it beside some evil spirit thing and maybe that's what it will be.

Back to fun:

-For me, getting hit by an auto-argo room/area is what makes the game exciting as it's the only chance I get to be injured to the point where I have to think fast.  Dog/wolf packs falls into this category.

-I also try to not remember those rooms so it becomes a surprise again (slowly not working).

-If it wasn't for those rooms/events, the game would feel pretty flat and lifeless as most everything else feels too simple. 

-Food, early game, is fun too. 

 

[Kandrathe]

Best name for a gaming company EVER! I absolutely love it. 

I appreciate the courage that it takes to stand up against the ever critical PC forces that would de-fang every FPS or gritty fantasy game until it was yet another "my little pony" adventure.  I have respect for TFP, and others like Rockstar, who deliver entertainment to their audience.  As a parent of two boys, I also never allowed them to play games for which their level of maturity were not prepared.  Just like, while I am responsible as their parent, would not allow them to engage in drinking, smoking, or other activity which requires mature discernment.  They are now both adults, and so they are free now to choose for themselves and without my opinion.  I don't want judgmental mobs removing my choices, even though in my personal morality, I may not choose those options.  I like freedom.

 

[Kandrathe]

That 7D2D zombies all pop up and attack simultaneously sometimes, could be a simple game balance trick and that's probably the long and the short of it all.  Almost every game has Game Balance as it's "Prime Directive", so to speak.

However, the point I was trying to make with Quantum Mechanics, was we the players don't really know what the final lore will be with the 7D2D Zombies/Infected/Whatever.

The list of what they could be and how they operate or are controlled even, is almost a complete unknown right now.

My own "lore" explanation is close to this because AGI/Stealth is focused on sound.  Humans, and therefore Zombies, have other senses which some feral zombies might react to and alert others.   I have no game mechanic for controlling my scent, for example. 

 

[Aldranon]

My own "lore" explanation is close to this because AGI/Stealth is focused on sound.  Humans, and therefore Zombies, have other senses which some feral zombies might react to and alert others.   I have no game mechanic for controlling my scent, for example. 

Exactly.

There is evidence that a dying brain has a short period of heightened brain activity (at least in rats).  So if some zombies are frozen at that state, then they might very well smell or hear the player much better than a living person could.  Sight would be messed up in a dying brain, so it could be the lore why zombies move slower in the daytime.

Finding out what is stopping zombies from dying could end up being the main story line.

 

[Kandrathe]

Finding out what is stopping zombies from dying could end up being the main story line.

I'm thinking it is a reaction to massive accumulated aspartame and butylated hydroxy anisole (BHA) or butylated hydroxy toluene (BHT).  

 

[Kandrathe]

I'm just talking game fun/excitement here as I don't know any lore that could explain it beside some evil spirit thing and maybe that's what it will be.

Back to fun:

-For me, getting hit by an auto-argo room/area is what makes the game exciting as it's the only chance I get to be injured to the point where I have to think fast.  Dog/wolf packs falls into this category.

-I also try to not remember those rooms so it becomes a surprise again (slowly not working).

-If it wasn't for those rooms/events, the game would feel pretty flat and lifeless as most everything else feels too simple. 

-Food, early game, is fun too. 

and for every POI auto aggro problem...



... there is a solution ...

 

[Yark]

With a good explanation, why not? It would just be a special challenge (in other games it would be called a boss fight).

It isn't a challenge. It's just bad design.

The example I gave as a comparison is if some rooms set your armor value to zero. Do you think that would be a challenge to plan ahead for, or just nonsensical? 

 

[meganoth]

It isn't a challenge. It's just bad design.

The example I gave as a comparison is if some rooms set your armor value to zero. Do you think that would be a challenge to plan ahead for, or just nonsensical? 

I was specifically talking about your example, why do you think I quoted that?

I told you it would be nonsensical without an explanation. I specifically said "With a good explanation...". I did not talk about whether such an explanation would be easy or believable.

I also said it would be a challenge because suddenly you could not let yourself be hit indefinitely even by a single zombie. In a surprise situation the best way to handle it probably would be to run back to some defensible position far enough away that some zombies have lost your scent. There is also the question whether your armor comes back then (you can get back your stealth in the other situation, can you get back your armor as well?) or you need to kill them all without armor.

 

[Danidas]

What are you basing this on?  I've seen (admittedly in modded POIs) zombies that were in a "sleeping" state suddenly get up and auto-aggro (and I know they auto-aggroed because they were like 30 blocks away and I had max From The Shadows, all the stealth books and was sneaking.)

It's not really a big deal as I don't mind auto-aggro rooms so much (though in late game they make me want to carry a firearm which I don't normally do outside of horde night.)

That is from a ton of extensive testing and reverse engineering that occurred in this very thread a long with info from the devs.  Also note that auto aggro was added a few updates ago but was not used at all until recently. So very few if any of the older POIs have it and that this also includes the modded ones a long with just about every tier 5.

What your describing sounds like awake zombies(rare in dev made POIs) or a unlucky detect/wake up roll on standard sleepers.

 

[Roland]

all differing opinions must be shot down and/or deleted.

All opinions are discussed critically. Zero opinions have been deleted. We treat fans and customers with the respect of taking their opinions seriously and having a real discussion about game design rather than simply smiling, patting them on the head, thanking them for their submission, and then completely ignoring them.

If you read this entire thread then you know that it has been a lively debate-- but where has anyone been harmed? It was the discussion and subsequent testing that came out of this thread that shaped my opinion on this matter. I definitely went through a change of opinion from the start of this thread until now. I think anyone who started out thinking one way and HASN'T shifted at least a bit in their thoughts regarding these volumes as a result of this thread aren't being very intellectually honest. Anyone claiming that moderators are deleting contrary opinions are just outright lying.

This has been a good discussion-- heated at times but still good. 

 

[Kalen]

The example I gave as a comparison is if some rooms set your armor value to zero. Do you think that would be a challenge to plan ahead for, or just nonsensical? 

Yeah, that sounds fun.... you enter a room and there are several bandits with AP rounds.   Sure, I could see that as a challenge that makes perfect sense!  Good idea!

 

[Danidas]

Yeah, that sounds fun.... you enter a room and there are several bandits with AP rounds.   Sure, I could see that as a challenge that makes perfect sense!  Good idea!

Even better the 7 Days equivalent of a Death Claw from Fallout in the form of a zombie with big armor shredding claws. That always runs and has a lot of hit points a long with natural armor to effectively be the worst nightmare for anyone to run into while in a POI. Which is naturally easiest to kill via sneak attack or as far away as possible.

 

[alanea]

Exactly.

There is evidence that a dying brain has a short period of heightened brain activity (at least in rats).  So if some zombies are frozen at that state, then they might very well smell or hear the player much better than a living person could.  Sight would be messed up in a dying brain, so it could be the lore why zombies move slower in the daytime.

Finding out what is stopping zombies from dying could end up being the main story line.

yeah but same science also proves that  zombies would get quickly inflated by own bacterias and  and explode

Even better the 7 Days equivalent of a Death Claw from Fallout in the form of a zombie with big armor shredding claws. That always runs and has a lot of hit points a long with natural armor to effectively be the worst nightmare for anyone to run into while in a POI. Which is naturally easiest to kill via sneak attack or as far away as possible.

err thats pretty much zombie bear role

zombie workers/sappers with augers on other side