Who wants Alpha 11 as the Sandbox Version

theFlu said:
Snip'd not to make silly claims. I don't hate the idea, but it might be weird to balance. Currently at 5/5 you get 6x drop rate for the books. If you just straight up give a 6x skillpoint rate, trader and air drop books become Really valuable. Plus it might interact funny with forgetting elixir as you could respec to read what you've found (although I would be fine removing the elixir...)
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Yeah, I hadn't given it a lot of thought..... I wasn't kidding, it literally came to me as I was typing the first part of the post. I'm not really sure on the mathematics behind book drops as I haven't really looked into it, but I'm assuming when you say 6x drop rate you mean that you're 6 times more likely to find a book..... which I would just directly convert into 6 times more likely to get an extra skill point from reading a book of that skill.

As far as the forgetting elixir, I guess who cares? If you want to keep buying an elixir and respeccing to get the most out of your books, more power to you. I never use the elixir as I find the concept of it silly but each to his own.
 
Kalen said:
As far as the forgetting elixir, I guess who cares?
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Yeh, I'm just improvising as well ;)

Kalen said:
but I'm assuming when you say 6x drop rate you mean that you're 6 times more likely to find a book..... which I would just directly convert into 6 times more likely to get an extra skill point from reading a book of that skill.
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Yeah, it's not .. exactly that, but quickly described:
Unspecced melee weapons drops: 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2
With one 5/5 drops: 6, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1
So you get 6 points of your choosing per each of the Other books.

If you then change, drop each book evenly (1,1,1,1,1,1) and give a chance to gain 1 extra skill point per book, you get to
2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1

You'd have to actually give a chance to gain plenty of points, if you want to average getting the same 6x. Either 100% for 5 extra points, an even distribution between 0-11 extra points per book, or something of that nature. It just feels like a lot.
 
The question isn't who is right or who is wrong but how to make it work. I like where this discussion is going.

The issue with percent chance to gain an extra skill point would be that it either isn't enough to push people towards the path they want or it's too much to make it overpowered and problematic. Need a middle ground somewhere.
 
Kyoji said:
Need a middle ground somewhere.
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Hmm, my improvising came with a simple middle ground to my previous claim, but only by having made the claim about twice too strong.

To keep the same ratio between skill levels, you'd need to grant 5x extra skill points at 5/5; but that's hardly the important part.
To keep the same progress rate, in terms of bookshelves searched; you'd only need to grant about half of that, as you'd be getting those 2 books for all your skills.

Long way to say, I mathered wrong, but hey; at least it's only 3 skill points per book :)
 
I want learn by doing, weapons specific parts like barrel, stock, bolt etc, and more zombies wandering around the cities and outside the cities.
Its just doesnt feel dangerous enough. Its like they made it too easy for new players. Core players can tell its way easy now.
 
Sometimes I don't open mailboxes until I am about to leave the town and move to a new location, then I go around looting the mailboxes before I leave.

Most of the time, I just loot a mailbox or two next to the POI I am at (either via mission or via just general looting in the game).

I think the fundamental issues with mailboxes is that sometimes people feel that they must open them - because they must progress in crafting levels as fast as possible.

Me, I like figuring out how to make my current player / gear meet the next challenge. I find it less stressful and don't end up jumping off my bike / minibike every 10 feet to loot a mailbox
 
BFT2020 said:
I think the fundamental issues with mailboxes is that sometimes people feel that they must open them - because they must progress in crafting levels as fast as possible.
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Must is a strong word, but guilty as charged. Part of the reason I usually skip the bicycle, it's just annoying driving thru a town :)

Bookworm is rather nuts though, been doing a run where I beelined it; I had most of the book series at 6 or 7/7 by d14. The completion is coming slow though, still missing 12 total on D23 .. including "armor doesn't slow you down" of course. Crafting mags are past the half way point on everything, maxed on the important ones.

I did slow down quite a bit after D14, messed about with a move and a base idea for a couple days etc.

BFT2020 said:
Me, I like figuring out how to make my current player / gear meet the next challenge.
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Is that even a thing...? Unless doing a challenge run of some type, like a D1 T5; I just equip upgrades as they come and the game doesn't really throw anything at me that I'd need to think about.
 
BFT2020 said:
I think the fundamental issues with mailboxes is that sometimes people feel that they must open them - because they must progress in crafting levels as fast as possible.
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Not any more than a ammo crate or other desirable container. You feel compelled to open them because they offer valuable items inside. I think this is a byproduct of them putting hard caps on loot in special containers. Things like gun safes giving pipe weapons just further encourages players to rush down crafting trees.
 
@BFT2020 You play SP right? In MP things are a bit different. The gamestage increases the faster the more people you have in your party. When you play with 4-5 people you often can´t ignore them or you will fall behind the enemies very quick. We need steel production on day 14. Otherwise demos will tear down our base on day 21.

Now with that stupid sledgehammer book it´s even worse. I was 8 levels ahead on day 14. And we always played together. If one had to stop we all stopped playing.
 
pApA^LeGBa said:
@BFT2020 You play SP right? In MP things are a bit different. The gamestage increases the faster the more people you have in your party. When you play with 4-5 people you often can´t ignore them or you will fall behind the enemies very quick. We need steel production on day 14. Otherwise demos will tear down our base on day 21.
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What a strange game you have. Sometimes in a multiplayer game we would meet the night in a very motley company. Player levels from 30 to 300, weapons are also different for everyone, someone with a tubular, and someone with a top one. And it was fun.
 
Mailboxes simply give too much magazines without any real danger. That is maybe by design so someone playing predominantly as a miner can still get enough magazines, but it makes for a bad balance for everone else. Or it simply has one or more balancing steps missing.

If some strategy is overused in a game it needs to be nerfed, (even if nerfing is unpopular). To make the overall rate of magazines still what it is (at least with my playstyle it seems to be well balanced with my loot) the magazines found in other containers could be increased a little.

That increasing some perks decreases loot chance in your own perk is a big disadvantage to the current design as it can't be deduced by in-game information alone. Therefore something like an added chance to find books you perked into would probably be the better system overall. The question is if that could be done in XML right now, which would probably make development of it faster.
 
meganoth said:
Mailboxes simply give too much magazines without any real danger.
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Not so much to change the balance. In the village I highlighted on the Navezgane map, there are 7 mailboxes and the same number of houses. From mailboxes you can get 4-9 magazines/books. But in the houses themselves you can find another 20-30. Moreover, in a week you will be able to get more magazines from the houses, but not from the mailboxes.1754912200249.png
 
meganoth said:
Therefore something like an added chance to find books you perked into would probably be the better system overall. The question is if that could be done in XML right now, which would probably make development of it faster.
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I think it should be pretty easy copy-pasting Bookworm's implementation to every skill; and limit the set of books dropped to those of the skill ofc. Won't be pretty, but that's essentially what you're describing, right?
 
Suxar said:
What a strange game you have. Sometimes in a multiplayer game we would meet the night in a very motley company. Player levels from 30 to 300, weapons are also different for everyone, someone with a tubular, and someone with a top one. And it was fun.
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It´s a private MP coop game and we only play when all of us are here. There is no level difference besides me and one other who use a sledgehammer.
 
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