PC Which is the LESS important main feature of the game V
- Thread starter Roland
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DeadMole
New member
I find the open container system to be distractive and quite messy. The point of a container is to look inside of it to find out what it holds. It's part of every RPGs ever made.
There is an HP bar in Fallout, so why wouldn't there be one in 7D. Members here keep dismissing the RPG aspects of the game like it's totally worthless. Story, quests, looting and freaking health points. Let us play every FF games ever made without an HP indicator because it's more "immersive". Ridiculous.
There is an HP bar in Fallout, so why wouldn't there be one in 7D. Members here keep dismissing the RPG aspects of the game like it's totally worthless. Story, quests, looting and freaking health points. Let us play every FF games ever made without an HP indicator because it's more "immersive". Ridiculous.
RestInPieces
New member
...FF games don't have enemy hp bars.
And so what if fallout, a different genre game, has HP bars?
This game is not an rpg, it just has some rpg elements. Even if it was, it wouldn't be any less of an rpg without hp bars. And number-crunching, non-seamless UI elements, do take away from immersion and realism for a lot of people. Visual/gameplay indicators would be far better.
And open containers are distractive and quite messy? How so? Many rpgs had open containers as props and decoration, adding to the environment's atmosphere, indicating that the area has been visited. How many rpgs have you even played?
Anyway, I wouldn't be against hp bars if it was an option. But all these options are not so beneficial to the game as so many people think. A great game designer is similar to a great chef working in a good restaurant. A great chef offers a gourmet experience which engages and surprises his clients, not letting his clients choose every single ingredient of his dishes, because, being a specialist, he knows better. Woe to the designer who lets his clients assemble the parts of his game to create what they think is best.
7DTD is beginning to resemble a silent hill game (random example), which has options for you to turn the lights on in dark rooms, jump into your safespace at will, play happy tunes so that you don't hear the creepy noises etc.
My 2 cents (and a lot will disagree ofc) - the game shouldn't try to "be all over the place" and it shouldn't give the option for players to ruin their own experience.
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iejen
New member
First of all.
My guess is only 5% of the community is registred on the forum.
From this 5% maybe (and I think this is high) 1% is still active.
We are listening to 1% of the community which mainly exist of modders or players that play a very long time already.
These people are advanced and look for new challanges, making the game harder and harder.
Personally I think the base game should not be for this 1%. They are advanced enough to edit the XML's if they want.
The base game should be for the 99% of other players.
The players that want a survival, crafting game with lots of RPG elements.
I personally think the open containers add realism and should be an option, 100%!
The HP bar (needs a graphical update though) brings more action in the game.
Knowing what more you can expect, waste a bullet of hit him with a club....
As long as you cannot visually see how damaged your enemy is, you need a HP bar.
People that don't want it can easily remove it in the XML's.
Or if you wish, add a button in the gamemode menu.
"Health bar on/off."
This isn't hard to code in.
Also, If you(TFP) want to target the full audience, add a pop-up in the game menu with a poll. :smile-new:
My guess is only 5% of the community is registred on the forum.
From this 5% maybe (and I think this is high) 1% is still active.
We are listening to 1% of the community which mainly exist of modders or players that play a very long time already.
These people are advanced and look for new challanges, making the game harder and harder.
Personally I think the base game should not be for this 1%. They are advanced enough to edit the XML's if they want.
The base game should be for the 99% of other players.
The players that want a survival, crafting game with lots of RPG elements.
I personally think the open containers add realism and should be an option, 100%!
The HP bar (needs a graphical update though) brings more action in the game.
Knowing what more you can expect, waste a bullet of hit him with a club....
As long as you cannot visually see how damaged your enemy is, you need a HP bar.
People that don't want it can easily remove it in the XML's.
Or if you wish, add a button in the gamemode menu.
"Health bar on/off."
This isn't hard to code in.
Also, If you(TFP) want to target the full audience, add a pop-up in the game menu with a poll. :smile-new:
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zombie4hire
New member
Players and XML editors are far from the same thing. I play but have never modded a game in my life.
Crater Creator
Community Moderator
Again, I'll be very surprised if the open containers aren't also easy to mod out. I for one would not base my vote on what seems easier or harder to mod out.
I voted for (against) hit point bars. I don't really think we'll be force-fed them when they're unnecessary. They'll probably just be used for bosses, quest-critical targets, and things like that. But the argument that killed the mini-map was that you're interacting more with the UI than with the first person view, and I'd say that same argument would apply for the HP bar, as implemented in the videos we've seen.
I voted for (against) hit point bars. I don't really think we'll be force-fed them when they're unnecessary. They'll probably just be used for bosses, quest-critical targets, and things like that. But the argument that killed the mini-map was that you're interacting more with the UI than with the first person view, and I'd say that same argument would apply for the HP bar, as implemented in the videos we've seen.
DeadMole
New member
You can scan enemies with spells to see their HPs, which can help a ton. Different game genre? MM said 7D=FO+MC. It's pretty similar to FO, actually.
FO is basically a mix of action RPG and FPS, which 7D is as well. Borderlands is an RPG as well, much like Mass Effect. Better to have an HP bar for yourself and enemies in an RPG.
Hundreads. I've seen open containers in other games before, of course. It's the same in other games actually, an open chest is just a useless item in the middle of the room.
Seeing your enemy health is actually a gamechanger. When you can indeed scan for a boss HP in FF, it helps you adjust your strategy and judge the length of the battle.
Silent Hill? I think you mean Resident Evil, and RE4 most especially which seems to be intentional, fortunately, since it's simply the best survival horror game ever made.
KhaineGB
Well-known member
For the record, the older fallouts (1, 2 and tactics) did NOT have HP bars. You could get a perk that told you the enemy HP as a text popup, but that's it. 3 onwards introduced the HP bar.
Now, something I would like to see TFP do (and should be fairly easy), is include the HP bar as an option.
You know when you make your game and select the zombie speed? That over-rides the values in the XML. Pick default, it follows whatever the XML says. Always walk over-rides the values and sets them to a walking speed, while always run does the same and sets them to feral speed.
If it's not too much work, I'd love to see the same for the HP bar. Default (goes by XML values which I would suggest should default to OFF), Always Off (over-rides any values so you never see them) or Always On (same thing, but turns them on).
Why this? Best of both worlds, and it means I can make HP bars off for all zombies until you run into a boss... then a big HP bar pops up.
Think Ender Dragon from MC, Wither from MC or boss mobs from Vermintide 2 (like Spawn of Chaos, Rat Ogre, etc)
Now, something I would like to see TFP do (and should be fairly easy), is include the HP bar as an option.
You know when you make your game and select the zombie speed? That over-rides the values in the XML. Pick default, it follows whatever the XML says. Always walk over-rides the values and sets them to a walking speed, while always run does the same and sets them to feral speed.
If it's not too much work, I'd love to see the same for the HP bar. Default (goes by XML values which I would suggest should default to OFF), Always Off (over-rides any values so you never see them) or Always On (same thing, but turns them on).
Why this? Best of both worlds, and it means I can make HP bars off for all zombies until you run into a boss... then a big HP bar pops up.
Think Ender Dragon from MC, Wither from MC or boss mobs from Vermintide 2 (like Spawn of Chaos, Rat Ogre, etc)
warmer
Well-known member
I definitely don't need hit point bars. I was once passionate about needing a mini map because the sound was really inaccurate then. Now that it is much better, I can find zombies with ease based on sound alone.
Hit bars would take away that fear you get from an encounter. With a minimap, you know how far away, and how much time you have before they get to you. With a hit point bar it is much the same. You know if that last arrow you have will kill that dog rushing you with a hit bar, the anxiety of not knowing is taken away.
This is one of the only games I have played that truly scares me at times. I don't want to diminish that with hitpoint bars.
Hit bars would take away that fear you get from an encounter. With a minimap, you know how far away, and how much time you have before they get to you. With a hit point bar it is much the same. You know if that last arrow you have will kill that dog rushing you with a hit bar, the anxiety of not knowing is taken away.
This is one of the only games I have played that truly scares me at times. I don't want to diminish that with hitpoint bars.
RestInPieces
New member
Hypotherical Silent hill with options was just a random example of how some kinds of options can destroy games.
True, it certainly has elements of both FO and MC but that doesn't mean it has to have enemy hp bars because FO does. MC doesn't -only a boss- and the first FO didn't either. 7D is far from being an rpg like FO and even if it was, HP bars aren't obligatory to an rpg.
Anyway, 7D is a unique game that has elements from various genres, but the point is that it should get what is the best fit for the game itself, instead of random elements of its genres. What I am saying is that if you believe HP bars would be good for the game, you would have better luck persuading anyone by saying why you believe it would be a good fit for it specifically, instead of saying that most rpgs have hp bars - this game has rpg elements - therefore it should have hp bars.
I believe that hp bars will be extremely counter-intuitive and detrimental to this game for various reasons, some of which I've already mentioned in this thread. They have done a good job with its atmospheric horror theme and hp bars would only take away from that atmosphere and make it look more arcade-y. They would undermine the realism and immersion that other elements of the game are trying to achieve. They will change the way players will view the zombies and actually make it less tactical than it is now. If they are added, tbh I would prefer them to be added as an exclusive modder's resource and not even as an option.
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I pop in here occasionally to see what is going on, but haven't posted any. I'm getting burnt out from a variety of frustrations and so decided to just check in occasionally, watch a video now and then and add a remark or two when a video is shown of the new update videos. Bunch of whiny babies in one video comments.
This time I thought I would add my two cents worth. For me, what little I have seen of the hp bars in games are distracting, so I really don't like them and if they do put them in I have a option to have them blocked.
The open containers, I like that idea as it frees me up from searching the empty cabinets and most of them are empty and wasting my time. As stated by others, it is common to see open containers, fridges, kitchen drawers, closets and such in a building, home or POIs that it is just part of the environment. We need to scavenge to get the skill up, but I'd rather do that in a building that has a lot of containers to open, the laundry store, pawn shop, businesses that has lots of desks and other containers. Being able to see the ones that I don't need to waste my time in a small area, such as a house, lets me move to the ones that will have some loot and I don't have to worry about getting caught up at night, or running out of time for some other reason.
My two cents worth.
This time I thought I would add my two cents worth. For me, what little I have seen of the hp bars in games are distracting, so I really don't like them and if they do put them in I have a option to have them blocked.
The open containers, I like that idea as it frees me up from searching the empty cabinets and most of them are empty and wasting my time. As stated by others, it is common to see open containers, fridges, kitchen drawers, closets and such in a building, home or POIs that it is just part of the environment. We need to scavenge to get the skill up, but I'd rather do that in a building that has a lot of containers to open, the laundry store, pawn shop, businesses that has lots of desks and other containers. Being able to see the ones that I don't need to waste my time in a small area, such as a house, lets me move to the ones that will have some loot and I don't have to worry about getting caught up at night, or running out of time for some other reason.
My two cents worth.
I think, and it is just a personal opinion, that this is more of a give everyone something to do, discuss a topic rather than argue over something that isn't important.
Of course, I could be way off and the fun pimps will take what we say into consideration. They may have it just on the more deadly zombies, or only on bandits or on all zombies but just on horde night. I'm just guessing.
Of course, I could be way off and the fun pimps will take what we say into consideration. They may have it just on the more deadly zombies, or only on bandits or on all zombies but just on horde night. I'm just guessing.