Whats the logic behind eatting and smelling after.

faatal said:
I explained how it makes sense, you just don't agree with it. I know many people who like it. You open the food to eat it, so the smell is in the air. It does disappear at a rate that I consider quickly. We like it and find it fun. We gave you a setting to turn it off of you don't like it.
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I didn't say the explanation doesn't make sense... at least not for certain foods. But all food? Pears? Most other canned food that isn't cooked?

In any case, my feedback is to listen to what people are saying rather than getting stuck on "we like it, so it's good." My view is that you spent a lot of time adding smell back to the game and I would think that you should want people to want to use it rather than disabling it. You have game options to disable it, which is better than nothing, but that just means you spent all that time on smell only to have X% of players disable it and not use it, which means that time spent might not have been worth it. Consider storms. You set them up and then gave an option to disable them, but you chose to change them. Why? People didn't like them, right? You wanted more people to use the storms instead of disabling them, I'd guess? After all, why spend time making a mechanic or feature that half the people or more turn off and never use if you can adjust it so more people will use it?

I think I understand why you want it the way it is... if it's only raw meat, people normally get that in the wilderness and once you have a bike, they can put it into the bike and smell will have no impact on them from the raw meat. So you want something that can't so easily be ignored. By adding it to food you eat, you make it so people are going to be affected by it more often and in places where it can be more of an impact, such as the middle of a quest. But that doesn't make that a good choice just because it creates an issue in more "difficult" situations. You could make it so meat products smell and most (or all) fruit or vegetable products don't smell. I don't have data to say for sure, but I think most things people cook on a regular basis use meat (including canned meat). If you made it so non-meat foods don't smell, you give incentive for people to make other kinds of food instead of only meat-based foods. That gives you decent smell mechanics while also improving the variety of foods that people cook. That's not a bad thing.

I can't tell you what percent of people like it as it is and what percent think it needs changed in some way, but there is definitely a strong response here about having smell from certain foods. And the person I play the game with has the same opinion of me about smell and I didn't prompt him for that or give my opinion until he gave his. That's a very, very small data set, I know. But I don't think just brushing off feedback is the best response. Most people aren't saying to get rid of smell. Most seem to like that smell is in the game. But a lot seem to think that it needs adjusted. That's all.
 
Riamus said:
I didn't say the explanation doesn't make sense... at least not for certain foods. But all food? Pears? Most other canned food that isn't cooked?

In any case, my feedback is to listen to what people are saying rather than getting stuck on "we like it, so it's good." My view is that you spent a lot of time adding smell back to the game and I would think that you should want people to want to use it rather than disabling it. You have game options to disable it, which is better than nothing, but that just means you spent all that time on smell only to have X% of players disable it and not use it, which means that time spent might not have been worth it. Consider storms. You set them up and then gave an option to disable them, but you chose to change them. Why? People didn't like them, right? You wanted more people to use the storms instead of disabling them, I'd guess? After all, why spend time making a mechanic or feature that half the people or more turn off and never use if you can adjust it so more people will use it?

I think I understand why you want it the way it is... if it's only raw meat, people normally get that in the wilderness and once you have a bike, they can put it into the bike and smell will have no impact on them from the raw meat. So you want something that can't so easily be ignored. By adding it to food you eat, you make it so people are going to be affected by it more often and in places where it can be more of an impact, such as the middle of a quest. But that doesn't make that a good choice just because it creates an issue in more "difficult" situations. You could make it so meat products smell and most (or all) fruit or vegetable products don't smell. I don't have data to say for sure, but I think most things people cook on a regular basis use meat (including canned meat). If you made it so non-meat foods don't smell, you give incentive for people to make other kinds of food instead of only meat-based foods. That gives you decent smell mechanics while also improving the variety of foods that people cook. That's not a bad thing.

I can't tell you what percent of people like it as it is and what percent think it needs changed in some way, but there is definitely a strong response here about having smell from certain foods. And the person I play the game with has the same opinion of me about smell and I didn't prompt him for that or give my opinion until he gave his. That's a very, very small data set, I know. But I don't think just brushing off feedback is the best response. Most people aren't saying to get rid of smell. Most seem to like that smell is in the game. But a lot seem to think that it needs adjusted. That's all.
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Define "a lot".
 
Riamus said:
As I said, I don't have data. No one does unless TFP does. I am obviously basing this on the many people posting here about it. No, that's not a large data set compared to all players who are playing experimental, but it's still a good indication of what people think and shouldn't be dismissed without consideration.
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Be so kind then to weigh it to the "a lot" of people that faatal knows that like it. Or is your indication any better than faatal's? Just wondering.

Point made. Dont give any extended value to your personal preference by making up a crowd that supports you. Doesnt work. And is kind of futile.

Too easy, but define "many people posting here about it"
 
Fritzl said:
Be so kind then to weigh it to the "a lot" of people that faatal knows that like it. Or is your indication any better than faatal's? Just wondering.

Point made. Dont give any extended value to you personal preference by making up a crowd that supports you. Doesnt work. And is kind of futile.
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You do understand that a lot doesn't mean the same thing as saying a high percentage, right? There are many people here who have said that it makes no sense with foods like pears. That fits quite well in with using "a lot", especially when qualified as I did. There isn't any making up of a crowd... there are plenty of people here who have posted the same thing.

Do you remember faatal talking about storms in 2.0 and saying they like them and that a lot of people like them? Yet what happened? They keep adjusting them based on feedback because "a lot" of players didn't like them. If people don't provide feedback, nothing gets changed and they think everyone likes it. Dismissing feedback without consideration doesn't improve a game. Few, if any, are suggesting smell should be removed. The suggestions and feedback are about making it better. Is that such a problem?
 
Riamus said:
You do understand that a lot doesn't mean the same thing as saying a high percentage, right? There are many people here who have said that it makes no sense with foods like pears. That fits quite well in with using "a lot", especially when qualified as I did. There isn't any making up of a crowd... there are plenty of people here who have posted the same thing.

Do you remember faatal talking about storms in 2.0 and saying they like them and that a lot of people like them? Yet what happened? They keep adjusting them based on feedback because "a lot" of players didn't like them. If people don't provide feedback, nothing gets changed and they think everyone likes it. Dismissing feedback without consideration doesn't improve a game. Few, if any, are suggesting smell should be removed. The suggestions and feedback are about making it better. Is that such a problem?
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No problem at all. As faatal said, you dont like it? They gave you a setting to disable it. (the rest of the 99% that likes it will use it)

Too easy again. Define "plenty of people". You are grasping and dont answer the questions.

"the rest of the 99% that likes it will use it", saw what i did there? Hope you get it now.
 
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faatal said:
I explained how it makes sense, you just don't agree with it. I know many people who like it. You open the food to eat it, so the smell is in the air. It does disappear at a rate that I consider quickly. We like it and find it fun. We gave you a setting to turn it off of you don't like it.
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I love it. Great addition. Thanks for making it a toggle.
 
Riamus said:
I didn't say the explanation doesn't make sense... at least not for certain foods. But all food? Pears? Most other canned food that isn't cooked?

In any case, my feedback is to listen to what people are saying rather than getting stuck on "we like it, so it's good." My view is that you spent a lot of time adding smell back to the game and I would think that you should want people to want to use it rather than disabling it. You have game options to disable it, which is better than nothing, but that just means you spent all that time on smell only to have X% of players disable it and not use it, which means that time spent might not have been worth it. Consider storms. You set them up and then gave an option to disable them, but you chose to change them. Why? People didn't like them, right? You wanted more people to use the storms instead of disabling them, I'd guess? After all, why spend time making a mechanic or feature that half the people or more turn off and never use if you can adjust it so more people will use it?

I think I understand why you want it the way it is... if it's only raw meat, people normally get that in the wilderness and once you have a bike, they can put it into the bike and smell will have no impact on them from the raw meat. So you want something that can't so easily be ignored. By adding it to food you eat, you make it so people are going to be affected by it more often and in places where it can be more of an impact, such as the middle of a quest. But that doesn't make that a good choice just because it creates an issue in more "difficult" situations. You could make it so meat products smell and most (or all) fruit or vegetable products don't smell. I don't have data to say for sure, but I think most things people cook on a regular basis use meat (including canned meat). If you made it so non-meat foods don't smell, you give incentive for people to make other kinds of food instead of only meat-based foods. That gives you decent smell mechanics while also improving the variety of foods that people cook. That's not a bad thing.

I can't tell you what percent of people like it as it is and what percent think it needs changed in some way, but there is definitely a strong response here about having smell from certain foods. And the person I play the game with has the same opinion of me about smell and I didn't prompt him for that or give my opinion until he gave his. That's a very, very small data set, I know. But I don't think just brushing off feedback is the best response. Most people aren't saying to get rid of smell. Most seem to like that smell is in the game. But a lot seem to think that it needs adjusted. That's all.
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What changes would you make? From what I've seen, the smell mechanics are fine. Vegetables don't smell unless you cook them, which makes sense. I'm still in the early days, so maybe I'm missing something.


Here's my suggestion. I don't know if anyone else has thought of it yet.

The smell system works as it does now, but instead of the smell lingering on the character, it works by zone. Wherever you take cooked food out of your inventory and eat it, the smell will linger within a radius of x meters for x amount of time, depending on the food.

I like both systems, and the results would be similar.
 
Fritzl said:
No problem at all. As faatal said, you dont like it? They gave you a setting to disable it. (the rest of the 99% that likes it will use it)

Too easy again. Define "plenty of people". You are grasping and dont answer the questions.

"the rest of the 99% that likes it will use it", saw what i did there? Hope you get it now.
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It justs need a little refining. That's all. And isn't that what experimental builds are for? To get feedback and refine the idea/mechanic/feature before it goes live?
 
InfiniteWarrior said:
It justs need a little refining. That's all. And isn't that what experimental builds are for? To get feedback and refine the idea/mechanic/feature before it goes live?
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TFP has made their stance about it. What do the "few" people complaining about it have weight in it?

Carrying food smells unless wrapped. Eating food smells period. Food = food. All chatter bout what foot does smell more is futile in the abstract way it works. Dont want smell, disable it.
 
"Define "a few"? "

Finally someone that gets my point. Thank you.

There is nothing wrong with critisism. Making up crowd to blow up your argument is. Thats all. So all 5 forum users that speak up about it carry no weight. Point made.
 
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grz__ said:
What changes would you make? From what I've seen, the smell mechanics are fine. Vegetables don't smell unless you cook them, which makes sense. I'm still in the early days, so maybe I'm missing something.


Here's my suggestion. I don't know if anyone else has thought of it yet.

The smell system works as it does now, but instead of the smell lingering on the character, it works by zone. Wherever you take cooked food out of your inventory and eat it, the smell will linger within a radius of x meters for x amount of time, depending on the food.

I like both systems, and the results would be similar.
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Note that not all of this is specifically directed to you, but I quoted you as I start by answering your question.

I posted my suggestions in one of these threads about smell. People keep making new threads and I don't feel like reposting everything in every thread, so I'll just leave my suggestions there. In any case, even with the things I suggested, I still might disable it. But I think considering ways to improve it and make it make more sense to people would increase the number of people who will use it. I stand by the idea that not being open to making adjustments and just telling people to not use it means the time spent on developing it was not worth as much as if people did want to use the feature or mechanic.

It's great that you can turn it off, but that shouldn't be the stance of the devs. That should be the choice offered after other options are exhausted rather than the first thing to tell people. They seemed to understand that with storms, so why is smell different? Maybe we need to ask a simple question and see what people say instead of just pointing out the issues and having people start getting into semantics? Let's try this, for everyone who doesn't want anyone to ask for improvements to smell...

Does it make sense for pears to be smelled when eaten? If you think it does, then explain why it does.

Let's just start with one question. We can then ask about each other item, one at a time, and see what people think. I really don't think it's necessary to get that elementary about it when we can just say that some foods make no sense to smell and leave it at that. But if the only way to get people to give actual responses about why they don't think smell should be adjusted/refined/improved is to ask the questions one at a time, then so be it. Otherwise, this is basically one-sided. There are many posts from many different people about specific things that don't make sense or could be improved. Yet the people opposing it don't give any real reasons why it should not be adjusted/refined/improved. The responses are all about semantics or about turning off smell entirely or similar things that don't actually respond to the suggestions for improvement. Faatal at least gave a reason why he thinks it makes sense, but that reason really only covers specific foods and not things like pears or peas.

Final question... why is it so unacceptable to ask that feedback about the smell system be at least considered rather than immediately turned away with "we like it and others like it, so it's good" (paraphrased)? The game gets better through considering ways to improve features and mechanics, not by ignoring valid constructive criticism.

Back to what I quoted... Having smell linger in an area or zone as you suggest would be a good option. I've made the point before that smell from opening a can of food or even cooked food stays with the container (if left open) rather than the person, unless the person is walking around with an open container after eating it, assuming the player isn't a really messy eater and spilling it all over themselves every time they eat. So having the smell focus on a specific location where the food was opened and eaten makes far more sense. Raw (fresh) meat is fine as it is because you are carrying it around and it would easily attract the zombies. Though the idea that wrapping up the meat would make it not smell at all is not at all realistic. Raw meat, wrapped in paper and grass, would still smell more than something like pears or peas to any creature that has a good sense of smell. So, yes... setting eating food to be based on location rather than player would be an improvement.
 
Riamus said:
In any case, my feedback is to listen to what people are saying rather than getting stuck on "we like it, so it's good." My view is that you spent a lot of time adding smell back to the game and I would think that you should want people to want to use it rather than disabling it. You have game options to disable it, which is better than nothing, but that just means you spent all that time on smell only to have X% of players disable it and not use it, which means that time spent might not have been worth it. Consider storms. You set them up and then gave an option to disable them, but you chose to change them. Why? People didn't like them, right? You wanted more people to use the storms instead of disabling them, I'd guess? After all, why spend time making a mechanic or feature that half the people or more turn off and never use if you can adjust it so more people will use it?
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Thats what i am talking about! Good points!
 
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