PC What was the point of the water change?

[gothguy666]

When you consume a beverage which used to give you an empty glass jar: it no longer occurrs, There are no jars (or tin cans) but specifically the Glass Jar situation (lack of) is a bit tiresome as there is no other way to get water early game, apart from search buildings pretty much all the time.
This has pretty much killed the game for me in some respects, as running on 40/100+ water  really does make the game a lot tougher, if not nearly imposssible.
It is actually easier to die via Zombie, respawn and get your bag than find water when you become dehydrated.

There is a way to make a dew collector, but it needs a filter. After playing about 6 hours. No filter found. 

Otherwise, there are a few changes like the pot on the fire for example, and the shading behind bocks depending on what they are made out of.
 

 

[meganoth]

[I moved this topic out of the console section. Please check where you are posting]

Don't try to find a filter in loot, it is a very rare find. Save up 1500 Dukes and buy it from the trader.

 

[ElCabong]

You need to adjust your gameplay to work around the water situation. The first day looted two bottled waters and did one trader quest. Bought two yellow tea, forget what it's called. I managed to loot enough food so I didn't go hungry by beaking in the back doors of residences and looted kitchens until it got dark.

The next day I was able to make a forge and looted a cooking pot so I was over the hump as far as water goes for that day. The next day, I'm low on water and need to break into more kitchens

 

[boban]

Yea, after adjusting to new way of playing water isn't a problem at all. But as you said you have to loot. Or do quests (and loot while doing them and/or buy your water). I think having 'industrial farm' of ducktape might not be possible anymore for later gamestages, but that's intended consequence/change according to madmole.

 

[Vaeliorin]

Just build a dozen or so dew collectors (which is really simple), and you'll have all the water you want.  I'm on day 11 and have 55 water sitting in chests, and 20 Pure Mineral Water in my inventory.  I've only got 5 Dew Collectors, and water is no longer an issue for me.  Getting parts seems to be my biggest problem now.  Tons of steel spear parts (which is fine, I'm running spears) but only 2 steel tool parts.

 

[jerseyetr]

If you ask me the biggest blunder of this whole water jar thing is that TFP wants the game to be more immersive, but water jars disappearing after using them isn't very immersive or real feeling to me.

Also, setting up a dew collector, then having it randomly produce jars for the water is immersion breaking and just weird.

IIRC they did this before, although I think it was an accident years ago in which after drinking water you got no jar back. I remember my server and many others just modding it back into the game. I imagine lots are doing that again right now.

If you ask me, they need to make something else to replace the water jar. Maybe a canteen you can craft that you have to fill at the dew collector as the collector would have its own water tank storage, then once collected into the canteen, you can carry it around with you, but that effectively have you carrying one single water jar around and we all know one jar of water isn't enough. 

Say im out on a long run away from base, I expect 3 days away from base. What do I do? Id need multiple water jars since a single canteen doesn't work. So obviously the water jars concept needs to stay, or at least some sort of way to carry multiples. Maybe having to craft multiple canteens? Just seems some kinks need working out.

 

[canadianbluebeer]

I do have to decide what to use the water for.

Glue? How much do I NEED today?

Drinks?  How much do I NEED today?

Food?  How much can I make today?   (not many)

Now finding glue/duct tape is much more rewarding in that "one less water to use"  

Mind you, finding that book to make pure mineral water is gonna be a priority.

60 hydrate vs 24.  much better.

Want that as early as possible.  (RNG is RNG)

I'm actually starting to like this way for solo.  Dunno how it's gonna go for MP tho.

(a lot more buying drinks methinks)  

 

[rateds2k]

Love the change, the only thing is why a dew collector? Could have just been a type of filtration system to filter murky water. Make it super slow and that would have slowed the water buildup.

 

[BFT2020]

If you ask me the biggest blunder of this whole water jar thing is that TFP wants the game to be more immersive, but water jars disappearing after using them isn't very immersive or real feeling to me.

It wasn't being driven to be immersive, it was driven because gathering water was basically too simple / too easy.  Water became a non-issue really.

There is still some balancing work needed to be done (especially around SP which may require players to mod), but the intent is to make the player choose how they are going to use their limited water supplies.

 

[Greymantle]

I would say going from A16 to 17 was a huge change in game play loops for many people. Some people had to completely change where they normally set up their base. The skill system was completely different with LBD removed. Anybody who used to do the sea of spikes strategy had to start doing something else. For those chasing efficiency, the trader started becoming a necessity.

What is the game play loop exactly that you have had to change? Most people have said that they simply focus on building some dew collectors the first week or two and then it's back to the norm.
 

I hated the never-ending supply of jars, so I am glad to see that go away, but they could have made them more useful instead.

Perhaps break them up and use the glass for junk turret ammo.
 

The only thing I remember about 17 was I liked the gates only for the reason to slow the game down a bit. Didn't they ditch the system in 18? The last what 5 versions, they have been all over the place. I really have no idea where they're going next. To tell you the truth at this point I would prefer TFP sell the game. Maybe we could get some devs that will have more focus and finish this game.

 

[hotpoon]

Removing jars is an unnecessary simplification, just like removing gun parts was.

Just another thing modders will have to fix.

 

[Apocalipservice]

Because it's a survival game maybe?

Oh, the logic... So you're saying that all survival games don't use water containers? Wow, I rlly didn't know that - no idea that dew collectors and disappearing containers were standard for survival games. Thanks for that protip. JFC Srsly, this one didn't have one until now. *shrug*   Note that it's  a hybrid game, not a full survival game but it's mostly supposed to be about fighting zombies and not be a drought simulator ffs. Being a survival game also doesn't equate to making a sudden and drastic change in how folks have been getting water and that change making all the pretty lakes and rivers more useless than they were. That's calleds dev not having a clear idea  I think they're fantastic scenery but we can't fish, can't boat, and now zeds can spawn there. There's water everywhere but we have to set up big blue water farms if we want the teas, food, glue etc midgame (multiplayer anyway which is what I mostly play) - yeah there'll be enough water but besides the unwanted water farm the change seems very poorly thought out. That's why we have mods though.

 

[Apocalipservice]

 This has to be the most condescending post I have seen so far.  This is also the most ill-informed post I have seen so far, and this is from the staff? With this view, it goes a long way to explain the state of the game.

Well, the game is kinda like his "kid" and I'd really expect him to defend their game/business decisions. Still, I doubt that *anyone* can say if there's a minority or majority opinion about the recent changes because it hasn't been measured. A lot of folks (esp kids) just equate their opinion w/ the majority opinion but I don't think we'll get a sense of how folks feel for awhile - or maybe ever. There were a lot of streamers w/ a LOT followers i.e. potentially many more people that are aware much less use this forum or Steam's, etc who thought these changes were bad months ago. That actually got to be a bit much, like way too negative past a certain point. I've come to think of Rick and Joel and the ultimate backseat gamers i.e. they want us to play their way? I've folks known folks like that, lol. At the same time I **really** appreciate how TFP works w/ the modding community so that if we don't like the vanilla base game we can play a different version. Darkness Falls seems to be a haven for folks who preferred 16 and there are so many other great overhauls. 

 

[Blasphemous]

For hydration, yucca smoothie is the new water and it grows from seeds and assembles itself at a workbench.

 

[Exxodous]

I will give you that they succeeded all right. The problem is what you seem to see as success, I see as a lot of unhappy people.

And I see a lot of people enjoying it....In previous Alphas water was something I considered once or twice a playthrough, and it was simple.  Loot 5 or 6 houses, take the 50 empty jars you got out of cabinets to a puddle and boil..... BORING.  Now, it's something I have to think about pretty much daily.  I wouldn't classify it as particularly challenging because I haven't died from lack of water or anything but at least it's entertaining.

Oh, the logic... So you're saying that all survival games don't use water containers? Wow, I rlly didn't know that - no idea that dew collectors and disappearing containers were standard for survival games. Thanks for that protip. JFC Srsly, this one didn't have one until now. *shrug*   Note that it's  a hybrid game, not a full survival game but it's mostly supposed to be about fighting zombies and not be a drought simulator ffs. Being a survival game also doesn't equate to making a sudden and drastic change in how folks have been getting water and that change making all the pretty lakes and rivers more useless than they were. That's calleds dev not having a clear idea  I think they're fantastic scenery but we can't fish, can't boat, and now zeds can spawn there. There's water everywhere but we have to set up big blue water farms if we want the teas, food, glue etc midgame (multiplayer anyway which is what I mostly play) - yeah there'll be enough water but besides the unwanted water farm the change seems very poorly thought out. That's why we have mods though.

You don't need to wait for modders to fix this for you.  Simply edit the XML to put more murky water in cabinets.  It's probably only changing one number in the loot tables.  Or CM some in magically.  Either way "poof" the problem is gone and the rest of us can enjoy the changes.

 

[Vaeliorin]

And I see a lot of people enjoying it....In previous Alphas water was something I considered once or twice a playthrough, and it was simple.  Loot 5 or 6 houses, take the 50 empty jars you got out of cabinets to a puddle and boil..... BORING.  Now, it's something I have to think about pretty much daily.  I wouldn't classify it as particularly challenging because I haven't died from lack of water or anything but at least it's entertaining.

Looting your dew collectors (basically, just more busy work) every day is entertaining?

I don't hate the change or anything, but it just seems almost entirely pointless to me.  Yeah, day 1-3 maybe were a bit annoying on the water front, but after that it was completely trivial (honestly, easier because I didn't have to track down a water source on the map to find water, which I've occasionally had trouble with in past alphas.)

 

[jerseyetr]

It wasn't being driven to be immersive, it was driven because gathering water was basically too simple / too easy.  Water became a non-issue really.

There is still some balancing work needed to be done (especially around SP which may require players to mod), but the intent is to make the player choose how they are going to use their limited water supplies.

I did not mean that was the driving factor. There is actually a post here from MM in which he states what you just said.

What I mean by the immersion bit was that TFP has made an attempt to make the game more immersive in other aspects, but this one is a step back in the sense of immersion. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Riamus]

It was really just to make things standard for everything.  Everything else didn't have a container left over.  Now, nothing does.  I prefer this regardless of immersion.

 

[Survior]

Just build a dozen or so dew collectors (which is really simple), and you'll have all the water you want.  I'm on day 11 and have 55 water sitting in chests, and 20 Pure Mineral Water in my inventory.  I've only got 5 Dew Collectors, and water is no longer an issue for me.  Getting parts seems to be my biggest problem now.  Tons of steel spear parts (which is fine, I'm running spears) but only 2 steel tool parts.

This is why this new mechanic is a huge joke and waste of time and effort. An efficient player will eventually overcome the artificial boundries of "mere survival" and establish a stash big enough to make as much glue as they want. The whole removal of jars thing was a big waste of time and effort with zero added and a lot of better game play removed.

 

[Survior]

OP,  the answer, "OMG WE MUST STOP PLAYERS FROM MAKING GLUE!"

Of course they haven't done that, they just made a really bad mechanic to kill the old decent mechanic.