PC What was the point of the water change?

[Maverick]

The game is what TFP wants it to be. 

And THAT is exactly the problem.

Everyone knows TFP is already working on the sequal. Good luck selling that with that attitude.

 

[Kosmic Kerman]

And THAT is exactly the problem.

Everyone knows TFP is already working on the sequal. Good luck selling that with that attitude.

I’m not sure you’ve really thought this through. If you don’t share their vision, you shouldn’t buy the next game.  If TFP designs games based on the whims of random forum posters, no one should buy their game because it will be a complete and utter disaster.

 

[DOAM]

There were several reasons to change it.
1.) Water was never a survival issue before. It was something you did once, go craft 500 jars, fill them up and your done for your entire play through.
2.) With unlimited duct tape people could craft OP quantities of things early game. Now its a choice, do use my water to craft duct tape, or do I drink it.

3.) Water jars is some leftover minecraft mechanic the engine had when we started and never a design we wanted. One less wasted slot in inventory.

Funny, minecraft is exactly what this change reminds me of. Because the first thing I did with my ole minecraft buddy is went and made 2 buckets, filled with water from the first watering hole we found, came back, dug a little hole, and now we have infinite water. Can't make duct tape... but infinite drinking supply. This feels too minecrafty to me.

If it was a survival issue, and a duct tape supply issue, I would have much preferred timers and/or shatter chance on the water. How long it stays pure enough to make duct tape, and how long it stays pure enough to safely drink. Chance for jars to shatter while boiling, chance to shatter while moving, chance to shatter while hitting/being hit, chance to shatter when getting killed, etc., etc..

Now even *IF* you manage to make it back to base with 500 jars of water stashed in your... backpack?... without them shattering, and then boil them without them shattering, then get them into the cupboard without them shattering, they'll still "rot" after X amount of time.

The current change just feels minecrafty and repetitive and dull and, worse, even though I have a couple dew collectors now, water feels completely out of my control. Don't like that.

Also dew collectors feel bad, but I can't put words to it. Other than bad. Maybe sad and frustrating too. But I can't explain why.

 

[zombiehunter]

And THAT is exactly the problem.

Everyone knows TFP is already working on the sequal. Good luck selling that with that attitude.

And if you were developing a game wouldn't you want it to turn out as you wanted/envisioned it?

I haven't played A21 yet so I don't have an opinion on the water change.  If it turns out it's a deal breaker for me (I highly doubt it will be), it will be my choice to continue to play the game or not, as it is yours.

 

[Aileras]

Dew collectors are for people trapped on a island with nothing but salt water or maybe a desert. In this situation boiling and filtering water from streams and lakes or rain water, would be the method survivors would use. Just saying it doesn't fit the situation. That being said as a game mechanic, it's not that big a deal, just seems like an unnecessary change to me. In my opinion, making things annoying doesn't make them challenging and it for sure doesn't make them fun.

 

[unholyjoe]

Everyone knows TFP is already working on the sequal. Good luck selling that with that attitude.

actually they are not working on the sequel.

they do have artists, level designers and so forth working on the next game but its not 7dtd2.

 

[v3tro]

Love the water change, food/water is finally part of the game.

 What`s the reason to complain? What changed so much that people can`t adapt and need to make a fuss about it?

Before you could make unlimited amount of jars in forge and fill them up instantly.. boiling time was like 10s. You are set for next 100hour game in less than 10min, it was broken. Now food/water is relevant. Great change. 

Same as magazines.. best change ever, beats learn by doing and that terrible perk to unlock recipes by miles. 

 

[Vaeliorin]

2.) With unlimited duct tape people could craft OP quantities of things early game. Now its a choice, do use my water to craft duct tape, or do I drink it.

Yes, heaven forbid I be able to make and use the iron tools I sunk 19 skill points into.  I could make quality 5 iron tools on Day 3, but only had enough duct tape to make an iron pickaxe until Day 8.

Fortunately I found a few repair kits so I could actually use the iron pickaxe and my wrench.

 

[Scyris]

And yet if you wait a month until people get used to the change, few people will care that there aren't glass jars anymore.  They won't even notice unless someone points it out and then they'll remember and realize they weren't needed after all.  I don't even notice the lack except when I realize I don't have time of then floating around in chests and am happy about that.

*Maybe 2 months as a month from now more people will just get their first look at it when A21 goes to stable.  Those that are using it now will likely not mind the change in a month, though.

I already don't care about the jars missing. Just build enough dew collectors and your fine. I usually loot mine after coming home from a loot run before I store stuff away. I have 4-5 of them up in a single player game by day 4-5. I mean, its not like traders sell much of value anymore they got completly gutted if you don't got daring adventurer. In fact my last game the literal only thing I bought off a trader was water filters, as they didn't offer anything else worth buying.

Love the water change, food/water is finally part of the game.

 What`s the reason to complain? What changed so much that people can`t adapt and need to make a fuss about it?

Before you could make unlimited amount of jars in forge and fill them up instantly.. boiling time was like 10s. You are set for next 100hour game in less than 10min, it was broken. Now food/water is relevant. Great change. 

Same as magazines.. best change ever, beats learn by doing and that terrible perk to unlock recipes by miles. 

I'd still argue food is a non-issue thou. Least I've not had any problems finding enough in loot to keep my char above 50%. Water on the otherhand is pretty tight. Even with 4-5 dew collectors, I still have to make a choice of making duct tape, or drinking it, or making food with it. I've been making due with quest reward duct tape, or buying it so I don't need to use my precious water, something I never had to do before, as I could just make 125 jars and be set for a week+.

 

[Greymantle]

Vocal minority like usual. Some people hate changes, but will come back later and say it was a good change and they were knee jerking. Water is supposed to be a rare commodity in an apocalypse, not all you can drink buffet on day 1.

 This has to be the most condescending post I have seen so far.  This is also the most ill-informed post I have seen so far, and this is from the staff? With this view, it goes a long way to explain the state of the game.

 

[AtomicUs5000]

 This has to be the most condescending post I have seen so far.  This is also the most ill-informed post I have seen so far, and this is from the staff? With this view, it goes a long way to explain the state of the game.

He says the same thing every time. You could call it a knee-jerk reaction to knee-jerk reactions... but he's right. That really does happen.
He fails to mention that every once in a while, though, there is a complaint about something and after further review it gets changed again.
Another thing that happens quite often is that when it seems like players warm up to some change, it is often after other related things are tweaked and suddenly the change makes sense.

 

[Greymantle]

He says the same thing every time. You could call it a knee-jerk reaction to knee-jerk reactions... but he's right. That really does happen.
He fails to mention that every once in a while, though, there is a complaint about something and after further review it gets changed again.
Another thing that happens quite often is that when it seems like players warm up to some change, it is often after other related things are tweaked and suddenly the change makes sense.

I agree that it happens, but this time it's different because of the game-play loop change. It's a huge change to how the game is played. That is what shocks me that they are that ill-informed on what is going on right now and blow it off as it's just the same as every other time.

 

[AtomicUs5000]

I agree that it happens, but this time it's different because of the game-play loop change. It's a huge change to how the game is played. That is what shocks me that they are that ill-informed on what is going on right now and blow it off as it's just the same as every other time.

Not really different. There have been times where entire systems have changed.
I don't know why they do that. Perhaps it's to present tough guy personas or perhaps it's some weird attempt to soften the complaints... but I'm pretty sure they have all the information and know exactly what's going on. 

 

[Kosmic Kerman]

I agree that it happens, but this time it's different because of the game-play loop change. It's a huge change to how the game is played. That is what shocks me that they are that ill-informed on what is going on right now and blow it off as it's just the same as every other time.

Except it’s really not. You just haven’t been around long enough to know that. There have been major game mechanic changes before and the forums were full of doom and gloom. Some things to consider: 1) the update just came out and no one has spent enough time with it to truly offer measured criticism and 2) the criticism has largely been reactionary and low quality.  TFP will tweak the systems but they aren’t going to roll them back. So there’s little point engaging with people still in the denial and anger phases of grief. 

 

[Ramethzer0]

Since I'm already sick to death for the negativity being spread on the forums regarding just about everything:

I gotta say I am really happy that I finally have a use for the water purification mod that can be installed in helmet.

Kiiiinda useful now.

 

[Euzio]

Since I'm already sick to death for the negativity being spread on the forums regarding just about everything:

I gotta say I am really happy that I finally have a use for the water purification mod that can be installed in helmet.

Kiiiinda useful now.

I second this. The water purification mod is actually extremely useful now. You can dedicate the water collected from the Dew Collectors into making teas, coffee, glue etc. 

I'm still on the fence on whether the change to remove water jars was essentially beneficial. If anything, it makes the early game slightly tougher and the late game slightly more inconvenient? 

 

[OgreSlayeR]

Don't know about the rest of you, but I was tired of tossing out empty jars and empty food cans after eating and drinking to save inventory space and I'm glad I don't have to now. Definitely a good byproduct of the water change.

I think it's just human nature that most people hate change. It would be interesting to see if this change had always existed in the game if people would be really care as much.

I do think they should go further with the changes though. It would be nice to see rain affecting the Dew Collectors (maybe a mod to increase the storage capacity?) Also what if we could carry a craftable/buyable water flask that we could fill instead of just using the jars (could maybe be different ones of various sizes to hold different amounts)? Maybe drag and drop whatever liquid we want in them water, red tea etc.

 

[RipClaw]

Don't know about the rest of you, but I was tired of tossing out empty jars and empty food cans after eating and drinking to save inventory space and I'm glad I don't have to now. Definitely a good byproduct of the water change.

In my case it is the opposite. I have kept cans and jars for oil and glue production.

I think it's just human nature that most people hate change. It would be interesting to see if this change had always existed in the game if people would be really care as much.

Surely not. I think not many people are bothered by the fact that you do not need water nearby for the plants to grow, but that was different in an earlier alpha and it would be more realistic.

Also, not all changes affect everyone equally. In an agility play-through, I was using exploding crossbow bolts for horde night. I was using up to 100 pieces of duct tape a week just for that. On the other hand, someone using a machine gun, for example, does not need duct tape to make ammunition.

 

[Greymantle]

Except it’s really not. You just haven’t been around long enough to know that. There have been major game mechanic changes before and the forums were full of doom and gloom. Some things to consider: 1) the update just came out and no one has spent enough time with it to truly offer measured criticism and 2) the criticism has largely been reactionary and low quality.  TFP will tweak the systems but they aren’t going to roll them back. So there’s little point engaging with people still in the denial and anger phases of grief. 

 I have been around since version 9 and this is the first time the game-play loop has changed to the point it affects me. I don't use traders, so nothing done to them has ever effected me. What game-play loop has changed in the past? I don't recall ever-changing my game-play for any version like this one. I've always played the same. I loot everything in site and don't do traders. This way to play has never changed, so not sure what you are talking about.

Don't know about the rest of you, but I was tired of tossing out empty jars and empty food cans after eating and drinking to save inventory space and I'm glad I don't have to now. Definitely a good byproduct of the water change.

I think it's just human nature that most people hate change. It would be interesting to see if this change had always existed in the game if people would be really care as much.

I do think they should go further with the changes though. It would be nice to see rain affecting the Dew Collectors (maybe a mod to increase the storage capacity?) Also what if we could carry a craftable/buyable water flask that we could fill instead of just using the jars (could maybe be different ones of various sizes to hold different amounts)? Maybe drag and drop whatever liquid we want in them water, red tea etc.

They changed from throwing out bottles and cans to books and magazines. The only difference is you read them or save them for friends instead of tossing them out.

 

[AtomicUs5000]

 I have been around since version 9 and this is the first time the game-play loop has changed to the point it affects me. I don't use traders, so nothing done to them has ever effected me. What game-play loop has changed in the past? I don't recall ever-changing my game-play for any version like this one. I've always played the same. I loot everything in site and don't do traders. This way to play has never changed, so not sure what you are talking about.

They changed from throwing out bottles and cans to books and magazines. The only difference is you read them or save them for friends instead of tossing them out.

I would say going from A16 to 17 was a huge change in game play loops for many people. Some people had to completely change where they normally set up their base. The skill system was completely different with LBD removed. Anybody who used to do the sea of spikes strategy had to start doing something else. For those chasing efficiency, the trader started becoming a necessity.

What is the game play loop exactly that you have had to change? Most people have said that they simply focus on building some dew collectors the first week or two and then it's back to the norm.
 

I hated the never-ending supply of jars, so I am glad to see that go away, but they could have made them more useful instead.

Perhaps break them up and use the glass for junk turret ammo.