PC Weekend Arguments

I think it be good if vehicles took damage in general the more you drive. These are not brand new cars or motorcycles. If you find a scrap vehicle and hotwire it how do you know what kind of shape it is in. If you make something yourself is it really top shape to last forever? Also most likely will be a gas hog on top of that. Then if I hit anything zombie or tree it should be taken more damage in general not just on BM nights. Maybe the jeep would've take as much as the rest but still should take damage then you have mods that would help in performance.

These things would keep me looting and getting resources to keep my vehicle up. I know, I know I don't have time to micromanage that I want to be doing this or that. I'm not saying go overkill with it to where you got to look and keep it maintained every second or anything. Not saying this alone is what would keep me looting and getting resources. Just saying it adds a little more to the game and not just for one night. It would make me wonder when and where I should take my vehicle out and to.

I think the electric storm is a cool idea but think it should be a random thing you don't know if it will happen or not. Don't think it should just target vehicles it should be everything. This will keep me on my toes and have different ways of defending. But this is just me in general to some I'm sure it will come across as me telling them how to play. 😉😁

 
I play Zombie Driver HD when I'm super lazy and don't want to go upstairs (it's one of the few games that works well on controller so I can just use my steam box thingie ma bob on the big tv), and that's the basic gist... you can shoot at them of course, but running them over is more fun, until you run over too many... then they beat your car to ♥♥♥♥ and you die. Good times.
At any rate, if it was actually dangerous to drive during horde night it would solve the alleged "problem" of people playing how they want, and making the people who hole up in a spike field jealous. We can't have that!
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I've thought the possibility for a forced dismount would be great for years

 
For me TFP are on the right track, with optimize and balance focus going forwards.

Simple balancing will solve many issues and refining what they have already.

All animals should be able to swim on surface of water, vultures dive bomb you if you are floating treading water now.

Gas is very easy to scrounge but as MM said that is easier to balance, decrease the amount found, increase fuel usage is vehicles.

All vehicles at present are OP against Zombies, again keep the fixes simple and this isn't just a Blood Moon issue :-

Bicycle should be be wrecked if your ramming it into Zombies and you fall and are stunned and/or injured.

Motorcycle chance of falling off on impact, increased bike and player damage.

4x4 chance of engine cut out as it accumulates damage.

Gyro copter targeted even more vultures and heavy damage from cop vomit.

The aim as always should not be to stop players doing their thing or having fun but make the game more challenging or risky, whatever method players choose to use.

After all if your all honest about your play styles, is it really that difficult to stand at the end of base design where 90% of the hoard is killed by spikes, blades, slowed with barb wire and electric fences, weakened or killed by turrets, while you pick off the odd cop or vulture with a bow or rifle.

Each to their own, it is always a lazy or unimaginative method to just magically (or scientifically) stop part of the game being used, as with level gated items a poor solution to the issues.

 
Cops could throw spike strips :)

That was a joke...but tire punctures might have some merit. They could happen when driving off road or from driving over zombies or from cop spit and would require a tire change...something you wouldn't want to do with horde coming at you.

 
Have cars get stuck and start to slip when running over a zed. Hit a stack of Zeds and you're practically done for.
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this is what a competent solution to the problem of transport looks like on a Bloody Night.
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I agree. But this is only half the idea, the devs then have to make sure that the danger to drive over zombies (at least on BM) is above the 1% it is now (presumably, the last time I was late on BM and had to drive through the night was in A16)

 
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Again, i want challenges on horde night while driving for MY enjoyment. I dont care AT ALL how it affects you or anyone else. You might think u are the center of the universe and you may think people care about how u play. Newsflash, you and your play style, or anyone elses play style are not important to me in the slightest bit.
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The sheer irony and lack of self-reflection in this post is awe inspiring.

 
If we need to...as a last resort.
But for now we are having a discussion on balance that the developer, himself, is engaged in. Stating reasons why proposed balancing moves are not a good idea and what might be better is a productive response. Casting people as villains who want to ruin the fun of others is less productive.
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I agree but I dont think it's a good idea that TFP should base difficult level based on us veteran players.

Hence my comment on Atomic.

Also I dont think it's a productive response to push a agenda based on ", i want challenges on horde night while driving for MY enjoyment. I dont care AT ALL how it affects you or anyone else. " hence my mod it comment on Snowdog.

I just dont see how that will benefit the playerbase.

As I said. I'm fine with nerfing gas.

I like the idea of adding driving skill.

Also I like the idea of losing traction and lowering visibility during bm storm. Since it's raining. Which should also affect driving during every rainy day.

I want to 7dtd to be a game without shoe-horned invisible walls that forces a certain playstyle. Why?

Because I want to still be able to promote this wonderful game to friends Without it being a flawed lore.

And I dont think a egoistic or a eletistic view on balancing the game will improve the playerbase at all.

 
Cops could throw spike strips :)
That was a joke...but tire punctures might have some merit. They could happen when driving off road or from driving over zombies or from cop spit and would require a tire change...something you wouldn't want to do with horde coming at you.
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I feel like you guys are over thinking it, just make the vehicles stop working when the blood moon activates the same way they do when they run out of health or gas.

If you get into the vehicle during a blood moon, instead of "Varooom", you get "Rrrr, Rrrrrr, <sputter, sputter, click>" noises of an engine that will not start.

 
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I feel like you guys are over thinking it, just make the vehicles stop working when the blood moon activates the same way they do when they run out of health or gas.
If you get into the vehicle during a blood moon, instead of "Varooom", you get "Rrrr, Rrrrrr, <sputter, sputter, click>" noises of an engine that will not start.
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I think most people are sayin what is the reason for it not to start? Why just those few hours that all of a sudden it doesn't start. Then on top of that does that mean the bicycle don't move? My feet stop working to get it to move? So the question becomes that it seems like cheesy way of handling it.

 
If you want to stay friends, stop this immediately. Make a rule that everyone gets to open one box in the end room of a POI you loot together. And loot, no matter how good your LL skill is. The fun of the group is more important and the LL bonus not that big.
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And group has fun when they can get the good stuff. When i have LL i will not let others loot the containers. And when someone else has LL, i will help to open them but i won't loot anything.

 
I feel like you guys are over thinking it, just make the vehicles stop working when the blood moon activates the same way they do when they run out of health or gas.
If you get into the vehicle during a blood moon, instead of "Varooom", you get "Rrrr, Rrrrrr, <sputter, sputter, click>" noises of an engine that will not start.
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You still aren't processing the actual conversation that is happening. You castigated us because you assumed our motives for wanting change were to prevent other players from playing the way they want. Now you offer a suggestion that would do exactly that?

The point is not to prevent anyone from driving around on Blood Moon night. The point is that if someone does choose to do this there is challenge and fun to it.

And not overwhelming challenge that only veterans of the game can overcome. Just plain basic challenge that any one with any experience with video games could rise to. As for first time virgin video gamers....I'd rather not that the default settings of this game become so gentle that those folks would choose 7 Days to Die to cut their teeth on...

 
I agree but I dont think it's a good idea that TFP should base difficult level based on us veteran players.Hence my comment on Atomic.

Also I dont think it's a productive response to push a agenda based on ", i want challenges on horde night while driving for MY enjoyment. I dont care AT ALL how it affects you or anyone else. " hence my mod it comment on Snowdog.

I just dont see how that will benefit the playerbase.

As I said. I'm fine with nerfing gas.

I like the idea of adding driving skill.

Also I like the idea of losing traction and lowering visibility during bm storm. Since it's raining. Which should also affect driving during every rainy day.

I want to 7dtd to be a game without shoe-horned invisible walls that forces a certain playstyle. Why?

Because I want to still be able to promote this wonderful game to friends Without it being a flawed lore.

And I dont think a egoistic or a eletistic view on balancing the game will improve the playerbase at all.
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I disagree. When making suggestions people should always state plainly their own preferences and what they want to see in the game. Making suggestions for some perceived group of people to try and add weight to your suggestions is fake-- and when someone suggests it for some alleged faction that they themselves are not even part of it becomes ridiculous.

Focusing on the motives for wanting a change instead of discussing and brainstorming the changes themselves is a waste of time. Who cares if one guy wants to stop others from doing something and someone else only wants to make their own game more fun? What was the suggestion that they made? Is it a good one? Are their downsides?

Let's discuss the actual suggestions and list pros and cons instead of trying to turn the conversation to why people are making suggestions.

Finally, when talking about balancing it is easy and simple to talk about loopholes and exploits in terms of "people can do this" or "people shouldn't be able to do this". These statements are to demonstrate that an imbalance exists and I seriously doubt they are meant to mean, "I don't want someone else to have fun by playing in this manner". It's not personal.

So maybe saying "People shouldn't be able to just drive around all night long without any cost or risk" is not as well phrased as "The game is currently not balanced well for the choice to drive around at night on blood moon vs the choice to defend a base" but I'm thinking they mean the same thing for most people and nobody is sitting around thinking of ways to ruin the fun of others.

 
And group has fun when they can get the good stuff. When i have LL i will not let others loot the containers. And when someone else has LL, i will help to open them but i won't loot anything.
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heh...we could never play together. I would annoy you to distraction because I insist on opening my own loot containers regardless of whether someone has a higher looting rating standing right next to me. If someone stepped in to open it for me and then gave me what they found I would probably shoot them with it and hope that friendly fire was active....

Funny thing is I don't feel the same way about crafting. If a mate has a better ability to craft higher quality gear and offers to craft stuff for me I thank them and accept it with no problem. I guess I like looting more than I like crafting so if someone is going to play an aspect of the game for me it better not be the one I really enjoy. ;)

 
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heh...we could never play together. I would annoy you to distraction because I insist on opening my own loot containers regardless of whether someone has a higher looting rating standing right next to me. If someone stepped in to open it for me and then gave me what they found I would probably shoot them with it and hope that friendly fire was active....

Funny thing is I don't feel the same way about crafting. If a mate has a better ability to craft higher quality gear and offers to craft stuff for me I thank them and accept it with no problem. I guess I like looting more than I like crafting so if someone is going to play an aspect of the game for me it better not be the one I really enjoy. ;)
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Nah, no one will be annoyed if people loot their own findings. It is that part of the game, that we love, that unzipping/opening loot container sound and the surprise we get. Remember our looks when we got the minibike book ? All the many reactions in YT and streams around the internet. Thats sacred.

If someone thinks it could replace this , you are doing right. You can probably just leave them. But shoot them and leave them works better.

Looting here is the best in any game so far. Many have lost me because the lack of it.

Once I helped a kid to go to his first quest, ever. I was so into the game that when I found it, without even a thought opened it and the dude`s dissapointed voice cracked me a bit.

Be careful who you play with, kids.

 
Quick ideas about some possible things to make driving a little more challenging:

  • Running over zombies should slow the vehicle down ('cause guts get in the gears)
  • Running over zombies damages the vehicle (but I disagree about vehicles taking more damage from the environment - they used to take damage when just running over rocks, glad that was removed)
  • Running over zombies creates a visible "blood splatter" effect, limiting visibility (similar to bleeding)
  • Acid rain during the blood moon, so you constantly take damage if you're outside


EDIT: It's also been suggested in the past that vehicles should be able to be found in the wild, like how they are in State of Decay or Mist. If this were a thing, then vehicles could be severely damaged by zombies, and you'd have to replace, loot, or repair two or three in a single blood moon. I still like the idea, and not just for this reason. But the devs do not seem terribly keen on it, so I have low hopes this will ever be considered.

As an aside - this doesn't solve any balancing issues, but it would be cool if running over zombies "splattered" them. Like, there would be a near-100% chance for dismemberment of all limbs. Wouldn't really do much, but it would look cool, and make running over zombies more satisfying. :)

Also, regarding loot shortage for MP servers - the new Borderlands game apparently has an option for "per-player loot," such that the same container can be looted once per player, and the loot inside matches the individual player level. In BL this is apparently to prevent "loot ninjas" but I'm sure it would also mitigate some MP-vs.-SP loot balancing issues. However, I imagine this would be a difficult thing to implement, so this suggestion might be a no-starter.

 
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What happened to survival itself being a reward? Everyone wants a participation reward these days. You know, the fat ass who walked the 50 yard dash gets a ribbon kind of thing? Sorry Navezgane is an unforgiving place, not meant for the weak. Zombies have a chance to drop loot, dogs drop bones and leather, and you get boatloads of XP for killing them, yet that isn't enough?
Once we make the death penalty steep enough maybe you will change your tune and you'll feel grateful you survived instead of having asking for a hand out lol.
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The joy of gameplay for gamplay's sake is quickly disappearing thanks to an overabundance of extrinsic reward systems in many games. Players now expect an extrinsic reward instead of valuing the intrinsic reward of gameplay mastery.

Frankly, this trajectory is ruining certain games. I'm glad to see this discussion playing out here and appreciate the acknowledgement that joy can simply be had by playing.

 
Quick ideas about some possible things to make driving a little more challenging:

  • Running over zombies should slow the vehicle down ('cause guts get in the gears)
  • Running over zombies damages the vehicle (but I disagree about vehicles taking more damage from the environment - they used to take damage when just running over rocks, glad that was removed)
  • Running over zombies creates a visible "blood splatter" effect, limiting visibility (similar to bleeding)
  • Acid rain during the blood moon, so you constantly take damage if you're outside


EDIT: It's also been suggested in the past that vehicles should be able to be found in the wild, like how they are in State of Decay or Mist. If this were a thing, then vehicles could be severely damaged by zombies, and you'd have to replace, loot, or repair two or three in a single blood moon. I still like the idea, and not just for this reason. But the devs do not seem terribly keen on it, so I have low hopes this will ever be considered.

Also, regarding loot shortage for MP servers - the new Borderlands game apparently has an option for "per-player loot," such that the same container can be looted once per player, and the loot inside matches the individual player level. In BL this is apparently to prevent "loot ninjas" but I'm sure it would also mitigate some MP-vs.-SP loot balancing issues. However, I imagine this would be a difficult thing to implement, so this suggestion might be a no-starter.
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Madmole has said that raining on BM night would kill performance even more, so that is a no go.

Up to 8 people looting every container would really increase the amount of gear/food/mats exponentially. For BL it is fine because scarcity really goes against its style. But in this game there needs to be a degree of scarcity. Cool idea but bad fit in my opinion.

 
Madmole has said that raining on BM night would kill performance even more, so that is a no go.
Up to 8 people looting every container would really increase the amount of gear/food/mats exponentially. For BL it is fine because scarcity really goes against its style. But in this game there needs to be a degree of scarcity. Cool idea but bad fit in my opinion.
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I didn't know rain killed performance that much. That is an understandable criticism.

The point about the "per-player loot" would be that TFP would, theoretically, only need to balance the loot abundance for SP games. IMHO certain loot is far too abundant in SP, but I've heard many complaints that trying to balance that would kill MP. The whole issue with finding acid is a good example - the fact that it is scarce right now works in SP, but people here have been asking for ways to make it more abundant (like being able to craft it), and the usual reason is that it's far too scarce in MP games.

Still, not counting on it being implemented, I imagine it would be a PITA to code.

 
Shortened version of vehicle gimp during blood moon idea. Could do blood moon = engine trouble. Couple of could's would be (for blood moon nite):

a) Could code the vehicles "normal" speed to be less than a sprinting/running zombie, that way players playing on a lower difficulty (most likely have zombie run/sprint off) can outrun a horde if they choose while those playing a higher difficulty wont be able to outrun a running/sprinting zombie easily in their vehicle.

b) Could make it that the vehicle uses more than avg gas so you have to get out to refuel more often during this nite. (If I'm not mistaken, at least it appeared so to me, the mechanic is already in game where if you press shift key to make the vehicle go faster you use more gas. Could increase the gas usage even further when shift is used.)

c) Could make refueling slower as well, like the time it takes to open a trunk of a car (instead of refuel as fast as you can click the refuel key).

So it would look like this:

In vehicle putt-putting around, running zombie sees and sets out to attack you. It could catch you in normal vehicle movement mode so you hold the shift button (pedal to the metal) to outrun the running zombie. Constant use of burst speed (shift) causes vehicle to gas guzzle making you stop the vehicle to refuel sooner than expected. While you're refueling, someone has to lookout for you to make sure you're not jumped during refuel or if solo you are forced to make a decision of abandon car for the moment or try to refuel if it appears safe enough to do so.

Just random first cup of coffee ideas

 
They should, its the only way to pick up your workstations.
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Will people on your friends list be able to put blocks down and pick up workstation under landclaim in A18. In A16, it would not allow them too (haven't tested it in A17)?

 
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