PC Weekend Arguments

I agree but I dont think it's a good idea that TFP should base difficult level based on us veteran players.Hence my comment on Atomic.
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Just want to say here that I do not consider myself a veteran player. I do have quite a substantial amount of hours in, but spanned over only 2 and a half alphas.

Also I dont think it's a productive response to push a agenda based on ", i want challenges on horde night while driving for MY enjoyment. I dont care AT ALL how it affects you or anyone else. " hence my mod it comment on Snowdog.

I just dont see how that will benefit the playerbase.
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I don't think so either. Please understand that this statement and the like from others are in response to the "don't tell me how to play" and "stop forcing me to play your way" arguments. It is far from my main points in the debate and far from the main points presented by others.

As I said. I'm fine with nerfing gas.

I like the idea of adding driving skill.

Also I like the idea of losing traction and lowering visibility during bm storm. Since it's raining. Which should also affect driving during every rainy day.
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Then mod it. Just kidding. Ideas are much better to see than the good ole "mod it" response.

I want to 7dtd to be a game without shoe-horned invisible walls that forces a certain playstyle. Why?

Because I want to still be able to promote this wonderful game to friends Without it being a flawed lore.

And I dont think a egoistic or a eletistic view on balancing the game will improve the playerbase at all
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I agree and this is why it is important to think about the good aspects and bad aspects of the presented ideas.

 
snip.
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I disagre. Being able too look beyond your own ego might be a good practice for a lot of ppl.

And as a designer I strongly disagree with your world view that you can't see something being benifitional for other ppl than your self.

Solving problems for other ppl is basically the core of product and service design.

The creator might or might not belong to the target group. But there is still the target groups needs that are in focus.

Now you might be wrong about your assumptions or have the wrong data about the target group but that can also be discussed.

But on the rest of you comment I'll agree. Let's move forward.

 
Just want to say here that I do not consider myself a veteran player. I do have quite a substantial amount of hours in, but spanned over only 2 and a half alphas.


I don't think so either. Please understand that this statement and the like from others are in response to the "don't tell me how to play" and "stop forcing me to play your way" arguments. It is far from my main points in the debate and far from the main points presented by others.

Then mod it. Just kidding. Ideas are much better to see than the good ole "mod it" response.

I agree and this is why it is important to think about the good aspects and bad aspects of the presented ideas.
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Great response. I think we are on the same page after all.

Let's move forward.

 
I guess it must be a perspective thing. I don’t use vehicles to run around on BM because... what’s the point? Same for water treading....where’s the fun factor? I play games for fun. If....if they somehow make driving or treading water on BM fun, maybe I might give it a try. It might be a fun alternative to standing on my base shooting zombies. Right now, IMO, it’s pointless. There has to be some sort of fun factor in order for people to do something. Right now, the only people who enjoy driving vehicles on BM are those avoiding the horde. If no fun factor is added, I’ll keep shooting zombies in my base, no big deal. Finding other ways to enjoy various aspects of the game should be a major interest from the developers. Regarding the arguments above, wouldn’t it be great if both sides get what they want? Avoid hordes and have fun? It shouldn’t have to be either/or. Now how to accomplish that, I have no idea. Just my 2 cents.

 
So are we doing away with feathers now? Because I only found three uses for them.
1. Arrows and bolts.

2. Burning them as fuel. (burns very fast)

3. Sell at a trader. (Traders won't buy a lot of them)
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He only said polymers would be for steel arrows and bolts, i assume all the lesser will still use feathers

 
I didn't know rain killed performance that much. That is an understandable criticism.
The point about the "per-player loot" would be that TFP would, theoretically, only need to balance the loot abundance for SP games. IMHO certain loot is far too abundant in SP, but I've heard many complaints that trying to balance that would kill MP. The whole issue with finding acid is a good example - the fact that it is scarce right now works in SP, but people here have been asking for ways to make it more abundant (like being able to craft it), and the usual reason is that it's far too scarce in MP games.

Still, not counting on it being implemented, I imagine it would be a PITA to code.
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I fell into my normal trap of thinking in terms of MP cooperative where you are not competing for loot but are sharing and pooling loot. For each container to be able to be opened 8 times by a team of players it would be Christmas morning all the time.

For PVP that would probably be a great setting because you are correct that complaints of scarcity happen a lot. Of course, on a PVP server you would feel obligated to destroy any container you looted to deny the goods to others so.... ;)

 
heh...we could never play together. I would annoy you to distraction because I insist on opening my own loot containers regardless of whether someone has a higher looting rating standing right next to me. If someone stepped in to open it for me and then gave me what they found I would probably shoot them with it and hope that friendly fire was active....

Funny thing is I don't feel the same way about crafting. If a mate has a better ability to craft higher quality gear and offers to craft stuff for me I thank them and accept it with no problem. I guess I like looting more than I like crafting so if someone is going to play an aspect of the game for me it better not be the one I really enjoy. ;)
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Well since i don't use LL lately i would not probably care :D And yes, friendly fire is fun.

"Am running out of the factory"

"Which exit?"

"It doesn't matter am getting out"

"WHICH EXIT? I might shoot you if i don't know which of those 6 exists you are going to use"

"Don't sweat that"

*boom*

"WHY DID YOU SHOOT ME?"

As i said, hella fun :D

 
I disagre. Being able too look beyond your own ego might be a good practice for a lot of ppl.
And as a designer I strongly disagree with your world view that you can't see something being benifitional for other ppl than your self.
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I agree that looking beyond your own ego is always a good thing. Using play preferences not your own as a means to shut down discussion is not. Since we are not designers of this game but are consumers we should give feedback based on our own experience and not some hypothetical group we imagine exists. If everyone gives an accurate account of their own experience and preferences then the designers can use what they gather to temper and refine their own predilections.

But I think we all agree that talking about the ideas is preferable to talking about motives behind the ideas so great!

 
Sometimes you want to play but just don't feel like doing a blood moon. (Shrug). Who cares?
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I agree, personally i have had this game for many years and have done many horde nights. sometimes i just dont feel like dealing with it. why should it bother anybody if i hop on a bike and avoid it?

there are times i love getting all set up and ready for horde and there are times when im like....i dont feel like shooting a green zombie 80 times in the face to kill him.

but in the end of the day this game is great because players have choices to play as they want, i dont understand why others care so much to try and nerf a vehicle because they dont like somebody else avoiding the horde.

 
I disagre. Being able too look beyond your own ego might be a good practice for a lot of ppl.
And as a designer I strongly disagree with your world view that you can't see something being benifitional for other ppl than your self.

Solving problems for other ppl is basically the core of product and service design.

The creator might or might not belong to the target group. But there is still the target groups needs that are in focus.

Now you might be wrong about your assumptions or have the wrong data about the target group but that can also be discussed.
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It's not that one can't see something being beneficial for other people, it's that anyone can claim that in order to argue for their opinion without using any practical arguments about the concept of their opinion. This is unproductive to a discussion.

Other common tropes are people claiming they belong to the majority and attacking the person instead of the argument. For example accusing the other person that his intent is malicious for making their suggestion. This is what pisses me off most personally.

So instead of using these pseudo-arguments that litter conversations, let's focus on real arguments about the suggestion itself, its pros and cons, details etc.

What happened to survival itself being a reward? Everyone wants a participation reward these days. You know, the fat ass who walked the 50 yard dash gets a ribbon kind of thing? Sorry Navezgane is an unforgiving place, not meant for the weak. Zombies have a chance to drop loot, dogs drop bones and leather, and you get boatloads of XP for killing them, yet that isn't enough?
Once we make the death penalty steep enough maybe you will change your tune and you'll feel grateful you survived instead of having asking for a hand out lol.
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I think you know better than to take the "want moar rewards" posts seriously. :)

This is a long discussion but the gist is that in any environment rewards lose their meaning the more abundant they are, and as they lose their meaning, the futile need for rewards increases too. Reward requires adversity there is no other way around it.

 
I would like 7D2D to be something like the "Black Summer" TV show. OMG an actual scary zombie TV series!

So I don't know if it would require some tweaking of Unity or going to Unreal as the speed of the zombies is terrifying. There's not a lot of zombies and they don't tear down buildings but going outside would require some serious courage. What a game it could be!

 
And group has fun when they can get the good stuff. When i have LL i will not let others loot the containers. And when someone else has LL, i will help to open them but i won't loot anything.
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Yea I see your point.

When someone else has higher shotgun messiah than me... only they can use shotguns.

When someone else has better strength than me, only they can use melee weapons.

When someone has higher mother load than me, only they can mine and chop trees.

When someone has higher archery than me, only they can use bows and feather.

;)

 
...i dont understand why others care so much to try and nerf a vehicle because they dont like somebody else avoiding the horde.
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There’s really no excuse for you to not understand since it has been explained about a dozen times. Just read some posts. Read my posts. I hope I was clear enough.

 
Someone mentioned a personal rule for co op doing a quest, which got me thinking, why isn't there already a built in loot rule in place for co op questing?

I would think it would be pretty easy to determine if a player is in a group, and if the players are within the quest location, that the final room with the best loot is limited to a small random selection for each player. That way everyone doing the quest would get a reward for it loot wise, giving people more incentive to quest together.

 
There’s really no excuse for you to not understand since it has been explained about a dozen times. Just read some posts. Read my posts. I hope I was clear enough.
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i avoid reading most of your post. i hope that was clear enough.

 
Nobody.. turn it off.
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Not always possible. I could be (likely) on a server and others want it. It's no skin off their backs if I'm cruising down the street in my six-four.

...we have tons of legit things the game needs development on, finding a dumb way to nerf using cars on horde nights should be the lowest priority.

 
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