Water survival in media and 7 days

Professor-Pip said:
Even if there's water all around us and plenty of jars and buckets to gather it up, I'd like it to be more difficult to make drinkable, safe water.
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On that, you and I agree.

I do want my little digital dude to be able to use houses already built sloped roofs, gutters, and downspouts, combined with buried wheeled trash cans right at the bottoms of those downspouts, as an almost immediate way to set up rain collectors.

Although TFP has setup Arizona as the focal point, it hardly likely that that state is the only state with survivors. I'm myself from the Great Lakes state (Michigan), and basically just see my guy running around up here. The pacific northwest is known for being very high rainfall, for instance, and if we have a game map with a snow biome...

Later on, I'm going to want to be able to craft an electrically powered "Dehumidifier", which would require a bit more than the v2.4 Dew Collectors, but I'm fine with that, as long as it gives steady, dependable water output. A Rain Collector can vary (Greatly) by how much it rains, while a dehumidifier is less susceptible to rainfall variances.
 
What? In Fallout 76 you just need to be able to build a cooking station which you can basically from start and you have unlimited cooked water that you can safely drink. Also you get so much radaway it wouldn´t even matter. And getting the big station for destilled water isn´t hard eiter. Heck nowadays getting the vintage watercooler is easy af. Can´t remember how it was for 3 and 4 but i think it was similar.
 
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TwistedMarine35 said:
All the reading ive done so far on Water and nobody has mentioned anything about collecting rainwater. Why can't we? But can build dew collectors.. Why cant the dew collectors double as rain collectors? So many possibilities there
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If you ignore the name of the dew collector and are willing to consider that the timer on it is just a way to average out the water you get over time from all sources (rain, dew, etc.), then it's already doing that. But instead of only being able to get water if it rains, you can get water at a constant rate. You can easily consider that rain water is part of that, but just combined into the single timer. The issue that faatal said was overhead, trying to track rain in every location where you might place a dew collector versus just having a timer. It might get changed at some point, but it won't have any significant effect on gameplay.

Adam the Waster said:
So something I remember @madmole talking about and something prebuild pointed out was wanting to have water be a scares resource due to some media having scares water

There a few i can think of like that
Mad max, water world, fallout 3, 4 and 76,

What most of these forms of media have are Extream conditions 7 days only really has 1 that bring a radioactive biome. (Getting to that later) but its on par with survival media like TWD, the last of us, Etc..no one really worry about water

But the game is set in Navezgane Arizona, Arizona is a pretty warm place but I wouldn't say water is scares unless your in the desert. But even then there's a river going through it

Now in real life, water is kinda easy to clean but there are a few things. According to my old survival book

A clean water sources like rivers is the "safest" but still not safe to consume do to bacteria, run off, fecies, etc. Lakes are much less safe and stuff like say pools or really any manmade body of water would be the unsafe option. Hell back then do to alcohol, it was safer to drink beer or wine then to drink. Before it was really understood that boiling helped kill bacteria

Snow is a option but snow build up on the ground could be VERY unsafe to drink straight up do to dirt, poop, metal build up.

Also water sources near mines (nazezgane has quiet a few) can be unsafe do to toxic metals

Radation while granted I dont know much about. Given that there's a river running through the wasteland, odds are some fallout leaked into the water..

Zombies is a whole different problem. If a zombie say slept in a water supply or vat or something... that water is now Instantly unsafe to drink cuz the virus, rotten meat, ■■■■ etc. If a group say slept in a pool that is basicly septic water and very if not completely undrinkable.

Okay so we not only got mining in the local area, man made pollution and run off, mining for metals like iron, silver and LEAD! RADIOACTIVE fallout, and zombies possibly sleeping, dead or worst, left in a state were they can't move just rott in the water.... yeah rivers and lakes should be very unsafe

Plumbing should be off by now but we still got power so... idk and even then its best not to drink it. I wouldn't drink the water near parishton

But the safest way to completely remove most crap from water is distilling However it can be fuel intestive and take alot of time. Boiling could help with bacteria but unless you filter it via a Makeshift filter or a filter you find. Then boil it. It's still not the best option but distilling gets most things out but some stuff may not.

What are yalls thoughts
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Don't forget other sources of hydration, such as cacti, other plants including roots, etc. Some may be more safe than others, but there are plenty of options for getting something to drink that the game doesn't include. I'd have no issue with them having some kind of filtration or distillation process, but I don't know that it really improves gameplay. That's more about realism or immersion, which is important to some players and not important to others. If it helps balance water, that's one thing. But if it's just another hoop that you need to jump through, that's not necessarily an improvement.
 
Also of note, the notional "Dew Collector" is just a dinky little 3X3 surface area, while a single residence POI has a far greater surface area. Given that many residential POI's exist, and some of these will be intact, along with the readily available trash cans, I cannot really see water being scarce. Smirky water, that is.

For me, a simple expedient of water falling/filling up the reserves is this: Where ever my little digital dude is, if he is getting rained on, my rain collectors are getting about the same, as my guy is no more or less likely to get rained on, than any other spot on the map, right?

If this was to come to be used as a ballpark starting point, rainfall would be easy to extrapolate. Given multiple downspouts/Outdoor trash cans, and multiple POI's, smirky water from such a network might not be constant, unlike a water condenser, be doesn't need electrical components.

What are folks thoughts on being able to pick up and move an empty outdoor trash can? They are designed to be movable, both empty and loaded, though no one I know could actually lift one filled with water. Probably need to have a LCB to pick them up. Dig a 1x1 hole, two blocks deep, right at the bottom of each downspout, put the trash can into the hole, and presto, you first Rain Collector is born.

If we right now have a 3x3 dew collector, and these trash cans are just 2 blocks high, and 1x1, how much should they cost in scrap polymers?

Can we, right now, actually build sloped roofs for our bases, along with the gutter systems w/downspouts? I have not tried that yet in game, but if the dew collector is going to go bye-bye, we need to have ideas to replace and improve on it.

If we can agree, it take verys little to make it possible to build a network of in situ rooftop/gutter/downspouts/trashcans, we could next work on how to get this water back to base, purify it, and then load up our canteens, and off we go.
 
WarMongerian said:
no more or less likely to get rained on, than any other spot on the map, right?
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- I spend a whole lot more time indoors than my roof does.
- Multiplayer would make that kind of tracking quite complicated, "which player to track", "when to update" etc etc.

I don't dislike the idea, but I doubt we're getting good enough rain sim for a general "collector station" -refill; and I'm quite sure we won't get realistic roof-size simulation.
 
theFlu said:
- I spend a whole lot more time indoors than my roof does.
- Multiplayer would make that kind of tracking quite complicated, "which player to track", "when to update" etc etc.

I don't dislike the idea, but I doubt we're getting good enough rain sim for a general "collector station" -refill; and I'm quite sure we won't get realistic roof-size simulation.
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Gotcha! I don't do multiplayer these days, got a crappy internet connection, but that is something I didn't consider.

Let us assume that, if the area of the map where any, individual player is, is getting rained on, is taken as "average rainfall" for the whole map. That way, if the guy is indoors/underground, they still get a rain budget.

One thing I want to mention, unless you have a complicated system, you are going to have to figure out an "exchange rate" for smirky water in, and pure water out. An outdoor campfire should lose some water to steam, afterall, and a sealed, system, where steam rises up and immediately enters an overhead water condenser, and so gets recycled, should have a lower loss ratio.

What does everyone else think?

What kind of ratio of smirky water in (by open air campfire) to pure water out?

I don't want to be draconian, but right now, it is 1:1, is it not?
How high would folks set that bar, to allow for easy masses of smirky water to be had, but boiling it down take a toll? How about 4 smirky water in, equals 1 pure water out?
 
4sheetzngeegles said:
If I am reading the proposition correctly. Instead of tracking individual players,
couldn't it just be track active chunk, You are here means 80 meters of coverage.

@WarMongerian mentioned, an lcb that could be used as a tracker for LCB area
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Yea, say the LCB sized area centered on the character is taken as being the average for there network of rain collectors.

What are your thoughts on an exchange rate for boiling smirky water to make pure water?
 
Depending on level of expertise, or cooking skill level, at max 90%.
So if cooking is max out with points 90, just use how many skillpoints
there are and start at between 5 and15%. I would tend toward the 5.
Each point to represent or raise an match as skill does

BE right back checking, in game
 
4sheetzngeegles said:
Depending on level of expertise, or cooking skill level, at max 90%.
So if cooking is max out with points 90, just use how many skillpoints
there are and start at between 5 and15%. I would tend toward the 5.
Each point to represent or raise an match as skill does

BE right back checking, in game
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How many, in whole bottle equivalents, is that?

Say a worst case recipe was 12 in, and 1 out, on an outdoor campfire, with no points invested? It would be a harsh exchange rate, to be sure, but points and better fire/location would allow for it to come down?
 
4sheetzngeegles said:
Instead of tracking individual players,
couldn't it just be track active chunk,
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With the current system, I think the proper resolution is player; the rain is caused around the player, so it isn't tied to the area as such, and there's no point to do so. But yeh, my indoors example wouldn't really cause a coding issue, the rain is generated and then "prevented" by the "indoors" -detection. Meaning the step to track is there. Was just a funny idea of the point of roofs .. ;)
 
theFlu said:
With the current system, I think the proper resolution is player; the rain is caused around the player, so it isn't tied to the area as such, and there's no point to do so. But yeh, my indoors example wouldn't really cause a coding issue, the rain is generated and then "prevented" by the "indoors" -detection. Meaning the step to track is there. Was just a funny idea of the point of roofs .. ;)
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Folks want to make pure water scarce, especially early on, and I get that now. What about your thoughts on an exchange rate of smirky water needed, based on points invested, and cooking location/setup?

Is 12:1 to harsh?
 
Here is a numeric
Could be a cvar.

There are 100 points so if you change to percent then 1 point
per skill point under the hammer tab, for extended water purification
methods. At 90 points reach 100 percent expertise/ which = 1.1111 percent
added per point to hammer food. But it would definitely be preferential
because it it going toward Sim territory.
 
The simplest way I came up with to make water, not scarce but a task, especially
in the beginning is, water is in higher tier only pois as loot. Reasoning prior residents
would have had the same thought process before I was spawned in, and reaped the
easier targets. The only bodies of water i have are in the wasteland with burnt and
desert in between, and increased higher level spawns. So either I go to High tier pois,
or run on foot to the waste to collect my water. I started designing it when they first
talked about jars.
 
4sheetzngeegles said:
The simplest way I came up with to make water, not scarce but a task, especially
in the beginning is, water is in higher tier only pois as loot. Reasoning prior residents
would have had the same thought process before I was spawned in, and reaped the
easier targets. The only bodies of water i have are in the wasteland with burnt and
desert in between, and increased higher level spawns. So either I go to High tier pois,
or run on foot to the waste to collect my water. I started designing it when they first
talked about jars.
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Ah. Now I see what your were talking about. The books.

I have to admit, I didn't even stop to consider the books.

So, points in Master Chef, skill from the cooking books, and maybe, the source/type if boiling? An electric stove, with an exhaust fan that doesn't throw away that, hot, steamy air, but instead runs it into a an electrically powered water condenser, to get all the very best reductions to water loss by boiling.

Good thoughts, and a nice starting point.
 
pApA^LeGBa said:
What? In Fallout 76 you just need to be able to build a cooking station which you can basically from start and you have unlimited cooked water that you can safely drink. Also you get so much radaway it wouldn´t even matter. And getting the big station for destilled water isn´t hard eiter. Heck nowadays getting the vintage watercooler is easy af. Can´t remember how it was for 3 and 4 but i think it was similar.
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FO76 is well known for being dead easy and trivial. You are, indeed, showered with stimpaks, rad-x, radaway and water, water, water every time you turn around. Don't even know why there's a "water filter" in the game considering how often you magically get purified water from nowhere every time you complete an objective and there are many. There is an immersion aspect to the game, but not a survival aspect. Probably not the best comparison.

Now that 7 Days has both harvesting from natural resources and the means to collect via contraption, both survival and immersion, mechanical and aesthetic are addressed. No need to make it overly complicated for the sake of supposed "realism", imo. That's where many games are getting dragged down and turned into boring slogs. I'm not sure what kind of person wants to get home from work only to go back to work in a video game, but that's what the vast majority of survival games are to me, at least: work simulators, not video games. (Subnautica is my only exception thus far.)

There are some intriguing ideas here for making it a little more complex as opposed to complicated, mainly in the purification vein, so brainstorm away on the purification aspect, I say. But if it's made overly complicated, it's going to drag down the game.
 
WarMongerian said:
Ah. Now I see what your were talking about. The books.
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Yep, People expressed a desire for a hybrid system, this and a few of the
other books, basically run the length of a playthrough. Granted it is time
investment but it is acutely focused on a single skill, or achievement. With
no overlap, you progress cooking solids, and achieve better purification at
the same time. Gradually.
 
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