PC V2.6 EXP

Grandpa Minion said:
are you saying than 1% is 0.05 GB is because of jars, which is equivalent to 50 MB?
the answer i gave to @4sheetzngeegles was reguarding loot in general, and yes loot effects the amount of save data, which means in my opinion having loot dumps is not a bad thing.
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99% was clearly not a specific value. Maybe it's 99.999% Maybe it's 98%. I'm not going to calculate it to find out. The point being that it's minor and not significant compared to what is actually impacting save size to any large degree (the number of changed blocks). Yes, items affect save size. But they are minimal. Blocks are significantly more impactful. Try out what I said. See how much difference adding 20 full steel crates of empty jars impacts your save compared to how it was before adding them. Do that without making any other changes to the map and without any players in the game yet. If it's a significant amount of your 5GB, then okay. But it won't be. If you really want to test it, instead of 20 steel crates full of jars, make it 200. Then I'd assume you'd have more empty jars than you would normally see on your server at any given time, though that's just a guess since I don't know how people on your server play. Maybe they all craft a thousand jars. But even at 200 full steel crates, it's not going to be a significant change in size.

I also didn't say loot sinks are bad. I just said they aren't going to have a huge impact on your 5GB save size.
 
Riamus said:
I also didn't say loot sinks are bad.
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so lets see than...
-as it is right now traders are the main source of loot dump (people selling stuff)
-raiding in pvp is a loot dump for players that get popcorned
-so now we can add jars to dew collectors as a loot dump....
outside of that i really can not think of any other loot dumps that exists in game atm.
 
Grandpa Minion said:
so lets see than...
-as it is right now traders are the main source of loot dump (people selling stuff)
-raiding in pvp is a loot dump for players that get popcorned
-so now we can add jars to dew collectors as a loot dump....
outside of that i really can not think of any other loot dumps that exists in game atm.
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Ok....? Not sure what that has to do with anything I've said.
 
@Grandpa Minion
I have a question, because I am trying to learn. Do you have the file that you displayed
on hand? If so is the save structure similar to client side pc? Inside the zipfile if opened
I was asking what is the file folder that is taking up the most space? Is it region, or player
if it follows the same directory structure.
 
Roland said:
And stumps too!
And chemistry stations should require empty gas cans to be loaded inside them and campfires should require empty bowls and plates to be loaded inside them for stews and steak dinners.
Man, I hate it when campfires generate bowls and plates and stumps generate jars and chemistry stations generate gas cans. How does that even work…?
Oh! And gee…we should really be loading empty glue squeeze bottles into campfires and chemistry stations because my immersion….
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You are probably joking. But this actually is a consistency violation and makes it harder to suspend disbelief.

So yeah: We definitely should need to have empty jars to be able to loot the honey from a stump. You break down the stump as usual. The stump turns into an opened stump which can then be harvested with an empty jar to get the honey. After that, you can hack at it to get the wood. You can also just hack at it instead of harvesting the honey with a jar to get the wood and waste the honey.

Also yes: Solving the inconsistency of some liquid containers being abstracted away while others aren't is probably one of the reasons, the jars have been removed in the first place.
We should need containers to harvest or make all the liquids. There would be nothing wrong if jars could just hold any liquid. And there could be jerry cans which would just be bigger jars made of steel.

For glue, it would make sense to have a jar of it which has multiple uses and when you craft glue, you use a jar to pick it up from the crafting station. You can use an empty jar for that. Or you can fill up a partially empty one. You use multiple water to make the glue for one jar. You get back the empty jars when crafting the glue. You use a jar to pick up the glue which becomes a jar (partially) filled with glue. You get that empty jar back when using the last glue of the jar.

Stacking glue jars merges them. Two partially empty jars become at most one full jar, at most one partially empty jar, and at most one empty jar (which you then hold in your hand). A stack can contain at most one partially empty jar which is the icon displayed for the stack (all others are guaranteed to be full because of auto-merging).

I don't think, the current crafting system code is ready for this level of immersion. But nothing of this hasn't been solved before, and it would add to the immersion.

Liquid food just goes into jars as well, btw. And yes, carrying a jerry can of hobo stew would be a very efficient way of carrying around nutrition...
 
Grandpa Minion said:
Can someone please explain to me why pve players are so obsessed with jars?
in pvp players are more concerned with building defense strategy and damage balance.
Jars never seem to come up as an issue but the way some of you make out on jars its like your being raided.
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Solo players are obsessed with them because they love to sit around bases at night with nothing to do. On a PvE server, you can chat while you're waiting for something, although that's rare. Or you can go out with a stronger player somewhere in a group.
 
Riamus said:
You'll end up with a ton of jars unless you change the jar return.
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No, they won't. They'll still be used at the beginning of the game, but by the middle, it'll be the same as in the alphas: drink the water and throw away the can.
Riamus said:
Every use of water would remove jars, which should normally happen faster than you should be getting new jars unless people aren't making glue or they are crafting jars.
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But for glue, they will have to be made in huge quantities, since glue production does not return us an empty jar.
 
Suxar said:
Solo players are obsessed with them because they love to sit around bases at night with nothing to do. On a PvE server, you can chat while you're waiting for something, although that's rare. Or you can go out with a stronger player somewhere in a group.
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I might be solo but I'm neither obsessed with jars or sit inside my base waiting any time of the day. Early game I tend to be a bit more cautious but even in the first few nights you can go out to collect wood or mine stone and clay, if not just scavaging a simple POI.
 
Jars yes, jars no -was never a big issue for me. With any of the jar changes, I will wait to see how it plays out before deciding whether or not I like it.
So far, the jar changes have all merged into the gameplay fairly painlessly. I expect the newest changes will be about as painless.
 
Grandpa Minion said:
our server uses server tools
so our backups are on server in server tool file.
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Unless you aren't running the server, you have access to the backups and can look. Or just do what I suggested (and you ignored) and do a simple test to see the size of a backup when the only change is adding a ton of empty jars to the world. Simple, easy.

Suxar said:
No, they won't. They'll still be used at the beginning of the game, but by the middle, it'll be the same as in the alphas: drink the water and throw away the can.

But for glue, they will have to be made in huge quantities, since glue production does not return us an empty jar.
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I don't think you understood. I said that jars would disappear faster than you get them from a dew collector unless you're not making a lot of glue or are crafting your own jars (at 0% return). That's the same thing you said. The point is that you aren't going to have a huge quantity of extra jars at 0% even if dew collectors give jars. For that matter, all jars given from a dew collector are gone as soon as they are used in any way at 0% return, so there isn't any collection of jars at 0% anyhow.

Now, if you increase that to 60% default, you're going to have a LOT of extra jars. You'll use more with them required for a dew collector, but you'll still have a lot of extra jars unless you're making enough glue to remove all of them. If you care about having too many jars, then reduce the return and you don't have that problem and don't need to put jars into a dew collector to remove them.
 
Riamus said:
I don't think you understood. I said that jars would disappear faster than you get them from a dew collector unless you're not making a lot of glue or are crafting your own jars (at 0% return). That's the same thing you said. The point is that you aren't going to have a huge quantity of extra jars at 0% even if dew collectors give jars. For that matter, all jars given from a dew collector are gone as soon as they are used in any way at 0% return, so there isn't any collection of jars at 0% anyhow.

Now, if you increase that to 60% default, you're going to have a LOT of extra jars. You'll use more with them required for a dew collector, but you'll still have a lot of extra jars unless you're making enough glue to remove all of them. If you care about having too many jars, then reduce the return and you don't have that problem and don't need to put jars into a dew collector to remove them.
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In the mid-game, you use good drinks. How many will you drink before returning home? One or two bottles? Taking up an entire inventory slot with one can is simply unproductive; you'll throw it away.

And in the late game, all the water goes into glue, or maybe you make plaster. That's it. There are simply no other uses for water.
 
Suxar said:
In the mid-game, you use good drinks. How many will you drink before returning home? One or two bottles? Taking up an entire inventory slot with one can is simply unproductive; you'll throw it away.

And in the late game, all the water goes into glue, or maybe you make plaster. That's it. There are simply no other uses for water.
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Whether or not you throw away jars doesn't change that there are a lot of extra jars. You don't have to horde them to say that that there are a lot more jars than are needed. But that isn't even what you responded to. I said that with 0% return and with dew collectors not requiring jars, you'd use up the empty jars when making glue faster than what you'd get from the dew collectors. There was no need to require jars in a dew collector as a loot sink. If you increase the jar return, then that's your choice to get more empty jars, but that's unrelated to what the dew collector does.

As far as water uses, a lot of people make the stews, which require water. If you don't, then sure... water is for drinking or glue. Not sure what that really has to do with what I said here.
 
Riamus said:
Unless you aren't running the server, you have access to the backups and can look. Or just do what I suggested (and you ignored) and do a simple test to see the size of a backup when the only change is adding a ton of empty jars to the world. Simple, easy.
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the whole conversation was about loot dumps between another person and i, It had nothing to do with testing or anything else, you decided to make it that way which i do not know why you did.
The only recommendation i can give you is sometimes stay out of a conversation you are not a part of, you seriously don't have to chime in on every conversation like you do.
 
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