Space4Ace
Hunter
You run a server, that's all you do. You are not a spokesperson for TFP and you don't get insider information.
When your flock asks about the next update or what's being fixed, just say: "I don't know", because you don't.
V2.5+ Survival Revival Dev Diary
- Thread starter Crater Creator
- Start date
When your flock asks about the next update or what's being fixed, just say: "I don't know", because you don't.
Riamus
Hunter
This exactly. For example, I've played a number of games that let you build large bases. Almost all of them have you using either prefab rooms of different shapes and sizes (e.g. Subnautica) or have you placing large wall, floor, or ceiling prefab sections (e.g. No Man's Sky). Those work, and you can still build interesting bases, but I really enjoy being have to build my bases one block at a time. It allows for far more creativity than just using a lot of larger pieces or rooms. And then there is the destructible environment. Some games let you destroy everything, but it tends to be much more limited in how that works than in a voxel game. I play this game because of the voxels. If there weren't voxels, I would probably not have even half the hours I have in this game.
Yes, voxels impact performance significantly, especially because computers are usually designed for GPU intensive games and not so much for CPU intensive games. But it's still worth it to me. Keeping in mind that I'm using a computer that is about 7 or 8 years old and it wasn't a high end gaming computer even when it was new and yet I have little trouble with performance as long as I accept how my computer runs. For example, I know I'm not going to maintain 60FPS (my monitor's max) without significant fluctuations, so I have the game set to 30FPS cap, which makes for a much smoother experience. I know some people get upset at low FPS, but I accept what I have for a computer, and at that cap, I can have my graphics up to High in most cases without any trouble. I do have slow chunk loading issues when driving at high speed in a large city, especially after being inside a tier 5 POI, but as I said, I accept the limitations I know I have with my computer, and that doesn't impact anything other than driving. The rest of the game is nice and smooth even with an older computer.
Post automatically merged:
Yeah... it's a simple thing. "I'm just running the server and have no more information than you do." The end.
faatal
Fun Pimps Staff
That is not how it works.
You don't monitor data, you update it when something changes data. It is not a matrix. The world is built from 16x256x16 chunks broken into 16 high layers, broken into 4m high arrays, broken into multiple types of byte arrays. Only chunks near the player are loaded. The air is removed if a whole layer or 4m high section is nothing but air, which is basically all that sky, so no meshes generated, no transparent textures, no colliders, no memory, meaning nothing to process. Each 4m array is also removed if it is all the same value, like deeper underground, which also has no visible mesh, so nothing is generated to render.
IzPrebuilt
Survivor
I'm gonna be honest with you dawg, I didn't even read any of your responses in the first place cus I wasn't having an argument I was just reaffirming my point after hearing vague grumbling via the dislike reaction lol.
FranticDan
Survivor
I played Alpha 12 recently, there were a lot of caves filled with mushrooms, and mining resources and even a pool of water at the end of most of them, it's one of those things that got removed and wish they kept in. It feels more natural than finding resource boulders on the surface.
I'd also love for an underground retro system that interconnects with all the cities so you could go between cities and towns underground, we have the tiles above ground, so I think it'll be epic if there were also underground tiles.
4sheetzngeegles
Hunter
I'm glad I finally got corrected, this is what I have been misunderstanding,
from when I first joined, it was like one of my first questions answered briefly.
The reason I thought of it as a matrix is because of the explanation,
mathematical/scientific description, and researching what is a voxel world vs a
poly world, and why did it take up so much data.
The 1x1 meter segments or cubes monitor changes to points in each 3 dimensional volume
translated visually by Marching cubes. Stringing the voxels together on a plane
it is a 2d array of 3d voxels. Stacking 2d arrays on top of each other makes it a
3d array or volume the alternate description making it easier for me to associate
it visually was the term matrix.
I then queried examples and was pointed to a CT Scan image. Then read what exactly a
CT scan image is. That is 2d slices where the pixels are based on a voxel of tissue.
So I incorrectly, and it is in one of my old posts of the old forum, posted that this
game is equivalent to a converted CT Scan of data, that gives detailed information about
each point in 3d space visually represented by Marching cubes and smoothing.
The reason I thought and posted texture comes directly from modding and editing xml here.
The first block is the air block that has the <property name="Texture" value="250"/>.
The 256 height I understand, because of the limitation of grayscale, 0 to 255 for graphically
rendered world height. Like if the voxels were 1x2 then render height would be 510 meters.
The reason I thought it was higher is because, it was a point of interest to go god mode
and go straight up to try to reach the skybox border. With f3 enabled it kept registering
coordinates after the 256 limit was reached instead of just going blank. Never made it by the
way.
The first time I remember ever seeing a something remotely resemble a voxel representation
was Qbert.
The reason I was so interested is because of what Madmole posted, that he hoped their dream
and game might inspire others to build a game, or inspire change. That is what hooked me
personally. That pointed me toward microvoxels, atoms, and pointcloud imaging. I like the
technology of it. I have looked at this game as a primer or template for the potential future
of gaming worlds.
Either way thank you as always.
And my apologies to the forum as a whole for any misinformation I have posted.
4Sheetz
from when I first joined, it was like one of my first questions answered briefly.
The reason I thought of it as a matrix is because of the explanation,
mathematical/scientific description, and researching what is a voxel world vs a
poly world, and why did it take up so much data.
The 1x1 meter segments or cubes monitor changes to points in each 3 dimensional volume
translated visually by Marching cubes. Stringing the voxels together on a plane
it is a 2d array of 3d voxels. Stacking 2d arrays on top of each other makes it a
3d array or volume the alternate description making it easier for me to associate
it visually was the term matrix.
I then queried examples and was pointed to a CT Scan image. Then read what exactly a
CT scan image is. That is 2d slices where the pixels are based on a voxel of tissue.
So I incorrectly, and it is in one of my old posts of the old forum, posted that this
game is equivalent to a converted CT Scan of data, that gives detailed information about
each point in 3d space visually represented by Marching cubes and smoothing.
The reason I thought and posted texture comes directly from modding and editing xml here.
The first block is the air block that has the <property name="Texture" value="250"/>.
The 256 height I understand, because of the limitation of grayscale, 0 to 255 for graphically
rendered world height. Like if the voxels were 1x2 then render height would be 510 meters.
The reason I thought it was higher is because, it was a point of interest to go god mode
and go straight up to try to reach the skybox border. With f3 enabled it kept registering
coordinates after the 256 limit was reached instead of just going blank. Never made it by the
way.
The first time I remember ever seeing a something remotely resemble a voxel representation
was Qbert.
The reason I was so interested is because of what Madmole posted, that he hoped their dream
and game might inspire others to build a game, or inspire change. That is what hooked me
personally. That pointed me toward microvoxels, atoms, and pointcloud imaging. I like the
technology of it. I have looked at this game as a primer or template for the potential future
of gaming worlds.
Either way thank you as always.
And my apologies to the forum as a whole for any misinformation I have posted.
4Sheetz
If underground were useless then this thread, where people talk about underground bases, would not exist: https://community.thefunpimps.com/threads/precision-excavation.46756
I am almost certain that I would have left the game long ago if 7d2d wasn't built on voxels. It is a big part of what makes 7d2d special.
I am almost certain that I would have left the game long ago if 7d2d wasn't built on voxels. It is a big part of what makes 7d2d special.
Riamus
Hunter
I also think this would be nice. However, I think it would be nice for maybe a few games and then just be ignored. Consider that if the caves looked remotely natural, they won't got in entirely straight directions. Trying to go from place to place would take much longer than above ground. So most people aren't likely to do that very often. And then you need to consider why you'd even go down there beyond novelty. Maybe it's just an easier way to mine or easier for making an underground base, but what else? Are there going to be an entire new set of underground POI to find? If not, what are you doing down there? If so, that is a LOT of work to make enough to not feel very repetitive. Even with over a thousand POI we have now, people already complain about repetition. If you had just a hundred or so POI underground, people would even more quickly complain about repetition.
In the end, I think it would be interesting for a few games and then just be ignored for the most part after that. I don't think they could make it worth spending much time down there. Some would use it, but most would still be above ground the vast majority of the time, I think.
4sheetzngeegles
Hunter
@faatal I have a question in regard to your post, for personal curiosity.
If the terrain surface is the only part of the landscape with meshes,
and all beneath is only affected when a person interacts with the voxel volume
below the surface, distorting. If everything above the surface followed
the rules of a polygon world, meaning placed blocks and POIs, would that
lower data storage or size or calculations, gpu rendering or cpu load?
I am not necessarily asking for this game, but playing the game makes me think
of it. I'm asking you because you have worked in the industry through the changes,
from rom to to now. I know that you have observed as you have worked on different
projects. So I am asking your thoughts.
If the terrain surface is the only part of the landscape with meshes,
and all beneath is only affected when a person interacts with the voxel volume
below the surface, distorting. If everything above the surface followed
the rules of a polygon world, meaning placed blocks and POIs, would that
lower data storage or size or calculations, gpu rendering or cpu load?
I am not necessarily asking for this game, but playing the game makes me think
of it. I'm asking you because you have worked in the industry through the changes,
from rom to to now. I know that you have observed as you have worked on different
projects. So I am asking your thoughts.
zztong
Hunter
I suggest looking to "The Descent" mod then. It should satisfy your list with the exception of underground tiles. You would have some entirely underground POIs though. My POIs modlet is compatible with it if you want a bit more selection. Then you can explore how well and how much the cave system adds to the game.
Grandpa Minion
Survivor
underground isn't just for digging that makes it special, It Feeds Multiple Systems — it ties into the ore/resource system (finding iron, coal, oil shale, nitrate, etc. at depth), the threat system (zombie screamer spawns, wandering hordes finding you), and base-building meta (many players go underground specifically to survive horde nights, storms, and pvp purposes).
some of the best bases i have ever seen was built underground, and ive seen thousands upon thousands of builds.
FranticDan
Survivor
I'm tempted to add this to my Doom overhaul mod, if I get permission. I'm assuming it spawns vanilla POIs without issue?
IzPrebuilt
Survivor
Oh a metro could be really fun, especially if they gave us the ability to turn up how dangerous the environmental temperature is. You could have playthroughs where you need to clear the metros and use the underground to travel.
HammerDano
Survivor
it does sound like a fun idea...maybe for a overhaul mod? wouldn't you need to implement this on pre made maps? I can't imagine it would be easy to get the underground metros to line up with randomly generated towns above ground...the current roads don't seem to consistently work that way now to link the towns.
You sound extremely entitled and disconnected from reality. You're not the server manager of an official TFP server, therefore you don't have a right to that level of information. You're basically asking for the level of a TFP team manager (or whatever the equivalent is). You're just a player that manages a privately owned server, that's it. TFP doesn't owe you any answer on their internal management.
If you want that kind of information, go apply to TFP, get hired and then ask to release confidential information.
It's perfectly fine to say to your community that TFP hasn't given an answer. You're not supposed to know everything and if your community gets angry at you for that, they are being very weird.
Grandpa Minion
Survivor
"Entitled" implies expecting things you haven't earned or don't deserve — I don't think that would describe the 7d2d community very well.
Many players have been around along, long time with many of them having many many thousands of hours in this game.
I really don't see how you can compare tfp having a little more transparency in their release dates vs thinking veteran players being entitled.
Last edited:
beerfly
Colony Rounder
No one really cares how many years someone is in the game or in this forum or game hours, or how many <put whatever you imagine here> every one have. And it is a simple rule in real life for anything to act like a human.
We are all the same and have no right to demand more than we are given.
If you think that showing your numbers here gives you the right to demand more than is given to others, Snowdog have something to show you.
Have fun.
P.S. about the people that you are afraid of losing in your server. Worry not, the right ones will stay. Don`t become their slave. Supporting PvP community among many others that are not is for sure not easy. We respect that and hats of, but lets go with the flow.
Last edited:
Jost Amman
Hunter
I don't entirely disagree with this actually... but what you expect from TFP must be given freely by them (respect and consideration for veteran players). IF they feel to do so, they would give what are called "soft rewards", which is basically the special treatment you're asking for.
They already (kind of) do that with streamers and the streamer week ends, when they give special treatment to the most "prolific" streamers.
Demonoid74
Scavenger
IzPrebuilt
Survivor
The streamer weekend isn't even for popular streamers at this point (though 5000 followers isn't exactly popular either) I'm pretty sure it's just anyone in the creator program these days, the qualifications for which being:They already (kind of) do that with streamers and the streamer week ends, when they give special treatment to the most "prolific" streamers.
"Have a social media account and don't be mean to us." Which is frankly an absurdly difficult set of criteria to obtain.
Jokes aside I'm 90% sure I saw like 300 subscriber channels on the streamer weekend in 2.0 but I might be merging the bloodmoons early access with the 7dtd streamer weekend in my brain.