PC v1.x Developer Diary

[ThePewter]

The problem here is the option to use it or not has been removed. 

The option has been removed from the server's XML file, not the game.  As I said a few days ago:

...manually change the serverconfig.xml file...

<property name="AllowSpawnNearBackpack" value="false"/>




If you want to continue to use the option set it to "true"

 

[zztong]

Both of the PvP games I played and liked did not involve a transfer of character inventory and players did respawn equipped. In both cases, the combat was over locations.

In LotRO monster play, if your side lost a fortress that part of the map became hostile to your side. If you managed to retake the fortress then it became friendly and you could turn in quests, etc. Elements of the map would flip many times a day. As a solo you could do quests and improve. A death would send you back to a friendly fortress with all your gear.

In WWII online you fought over cities and control points. The front moved if you could capture a city. A "death" counted against the supply of men for one of the units controlled by the general staff. They'd play the battle for Europe to conclusion, wait a day for players to pick a side again, and then restart.

Those were great games. Sadly, 7d2d doesn't really have features that would allow for those kinds of setups. (I wonder what mods would be needed.) A transfer of inventory is likely the only possibility. That brand of PvP is so unappealing to me.

EDIT: Oh, I forgot about Life Is Feudal. I played that some. Loss of inventory was part of that PvP. That game went out of business after just a couple of years. I hear they're talking about bringing it back. It was great for PvE, but I was inept in the combat system (gestures to attack) so I never wanted to PvP knowing I was always going to lose.

 

[Arez]

PVP just added unnecessary stress to life by regular gamers who have no job or life.

That's a bit of a dickish and cliche thing to say. There are plenty of people with lives that prefer PvP. They simply have the desire, ability and mindset to not get completely overwhelmed. When someone says something like this it makes me think that they can't hack it but they wish they could. 

But before any of the concerns of how PvP's mechanics function are considered, the networking needs to be addressed. 

There has been not one situation, whether it was peer to peer or dedicated server, where the experience didn't suck. The networking is horrid. Unless the server is literally in my neighborhood, the latency makes it not worth playing. 

 

[Grandpa Minion]

<property name="AllowSpawnNearBackpack" value="false"/>




If you want to continue to use the option set it to "true"

i honestly do not understand why so many people still think the setting works...

we have tested it on vanilla server set true or false same result

adding the line simply doesn't do jack....



true:



false:

 

[Sgt At Arms]

That's a bit of a dickish and cliche thing to say. There are plenty of people with lives that prefer PvP. They simply have the desire, ability and mindset to not get completely overwhelmed. When someone says something like this it makes me think that they can't hack it but they wish they could. 

But before any of the concerns of how PvP's mechanics function are considered, the networking needs to be addressed. 

There has been not one situation, whether it was peer to peer or dedicated server, where the experience didn't suck. The networking is horrid. Unless the server is literally in my neighborhood, the latency makes it not worth playing. 

I play on a dedicated server that is half a country away from me and i still get a ping of 27. Seems like you need to look at your home setup? 
Things i did to help with ping
1. direct connect to router, dont use wireless
2. update your network cards driver etc
3. Network Workaround in setting might also help

 

[Space4Ace]

I really wish there was more support for PVP. I feel like there is a huge community that would enjoy that aspect, but i don't see the developers supporting the very option they put in the game. 

7 Days to Die is first and foremost, a survival, tower defense game. People looking for a true PVP game should look elsewhere.

TFP are far into development of the game and they won't add anything major except for what as already been announced.

 

[Arez]

I play on a dedicated server that is half a country away from me and i still get a ping of 27. Seems like you need to look at your home setup? 
Things i did to help with ping
1. direct connect to router, dont use wireless
2. update your network cards driver etc
3. Network Workaround in setting might also help

Don't patronize me.

Do you think I'm stupid? Do you think I would write that without the knowledge that no other game's networking that I play performs this poorly. Do you think I haven't seen other people have the same issues every time?

Maybe you have the greatest set up that has ever existed or maybe your reaction time is so dull that you don't even notice it. 

 

[BFT2020]

The mods attitude towards pvp on this forum has been the same for years.. that is why most pvp players dont even post on it. I have been told by countless pvp players over the years that they would have posted ideas, shared their thoughts and so on throught out the years if wasn't for the BIAS attitude against pvp players from the mods on this forum. All i can tell you is dont get frustrated and thanks for sharing your view. Once console starts to join dedicated i have feeling that well change. Console players luv pvp.....

It's not biased against PvP players, it is just a fact of life.

TFP has been very clear that the intent of this game is centered about the Co-Op PvE experience.  Sure the game can be played PvP or even single player, but the decisions they make are towards PvE gameplay.  And they haven't ignored PvP ideas, as long as they don't affect the PvE experience or go against their development goals.

That is why spawning at backpack is not a urgent priority for them because it doesn't have an impact on Co-Op play - but that doesn't mean they won't try something if they have the time and resources to do so.

 

[Grandpa Minion]

TFP has been very clear that the intent of this game is centered about the Co-Op PvE experience.  Sure the game can be played PvP or even single player, but the decisions they make are towards PvE gameplay.  And they haven't ignored PvP ideas, as long as they don't affect the PvE experience or go against their development goals.

i couldn't agree with you more on this and that is exactly where they failed. Over the years it has been no secret the biggest servers in this game that  have ever existed has been pvp servers rated by gametracker and battlemetrics. Our server alone has had over 250000 accounts log into over the years.. The pimps drpped the ball for sure on multiplayer, For years like i said earlier mods on this forum have done nothing but downplay pvp when in fact pvp players are just alive and interested in the game as pve players.

 

[Morloc]

Do you think I would write that without the knowledge that no other game's networking that I play performs this poorly.

Do you think I haven't seen other people have the same issues every time?

"You think you have won??

You think I don't know what I gained for my wife?"



-Arch Necromancer Morloc 

 

[Riamus]

Dropped the ball?  They didn't intend for it to be PVP.  They added the ability to PVP because of people asking for it, but that clearly wasn't they intention for this game.  It isn't like they intended it to be PVP and failed to do so.  They tacked it on for people who wanted it, but they clearly aren't making this game for PVP players.  They might add some stuff for PVP, but that isn't their intended audience. 

I've never understood the need for PVP players to try to force PVP into a game that isn't intended for PVP and then get upset that the game isn't designed for PVP.  This isn't the only game where that happens.  And it isn't like there aren't many games out there that are intended for PVP and where PVP works very well.  I know that is I wanted to play PVP in a game, I would pick a game that was designed for it, such as Battlefield or Call of Duty or any number of other FPS games.

It really doesn't matter if there are PVP servers or how big they are.  Considering those same servers are also usually pushing the player count far above what the game is intended to handle (i.e. only 1-8 players) and you are pushing the game far outside what they intend.  Being upset that it isn't designed to be played that way doesn't really make much sense to me.  Even though I have no stats, I am fairly confident that there are far more players for this game who play either co-op or solo than who play PVP, regardless of server sizes for PVP players.  PVP is likely less than 5% of the player base (obviously that is my personal opinion/estimate and not intended to be a proven statistic).  Now, that doesn't mean you can't play PVP on this game or have larger numbers of players at a time.  But if you are going to play it differently than the intended (designed) way of playing, you should accept that things may not work as well as you would like.  That doesn't mean you can't request features or changes or improvements, of course.  But getting upset about it is kind of pointless.

 

[HB_H4wk]

PvP is for Battlefield or COD. Be happy they added it, I could really care less about it but all he's done is complain complain complain. Like a broken record it's gotten old.

 

[Grandpa Minion]

But if you are going to play it differently than the intended (designed) way of playing, you should accept that things may not work as well as you would like. 

It goes far beyond that, ill give you one of many examples: for years coders and players have been asking the pimps to add an id to items so duping could get fixed. I personally know coders who have even submitted how to fix it many times and got frustrated only to see new twitch commands added and so on.

The bottom line anything dealing with pvp gets pushed to the back of the line even when known fixs are known and even when they are told how to fix it. That kind of stuff is whats frustrating to players who enjoy the pvp side.

Another big one is XRAY: coders can not fix it without WORKSHOP and if the pimps aren't welling to fix it even though they know how than they need to release workshop so coders can fix it.

 

[meganoth]

My guess is that workshop support is intentionally held back so there are not hundreds of mods out there that are for older versions of the game. This is why it was always the last item on any list of features to come for 7D2D.

 

[Grandpa Minion]

My guess is that workshop support is intentionally held back so there are not hundreds of mods out there that are for older versions of the game. This is why it was always the last item on any list of features to come for 7D2D.

what ever the case is, its been 10 years waiting on some things to get fixed that they know how to fix since year 2. Time WORKSHOP finally releases at this rate it well be to late, alot of great coders for the community have already left the game and what few are left are holding on by a string without the necessary tools to fix such important things.

 

[Riamus]

If things aren't a priority, they will always get pushed to the bottom of what is a large list of things to do.  Doesn't matter if they know how to fix or change something.  And since PVP is not the intended audience for the game, even if they made it possible, most things that only impact PVP will be lower priority than things that impact co-op and solo play.  Just how things work if you want to force PVP into a game that want intended to be played that way.  There are plenty of bugs to fix and specific features to add that affect more than just a small subset if the players.  Those will normally be done first. 

And it makes a lot of sense that Steam Workshop will be added at the end.  It isn't good to set that up before having modding pretty much finalized, which won't happen until the end 

This is just what you have to expect if you choose to play an early access game.  It may not be early access now, but you have been playing it throughout early access and, even now, it is still basically in alpha.  Until it is gold, you can't expect everything to be finished.

 

[zztong]

I must have missed something. Why is Steam Workshop support needed for a server to distribute a modlet to players? I mean, it certainly would be more convenient for the players to install it. Is it a matter of requiring it to join the server, or else players won't install it, or something?

There's no way I know the history of the game's PvP or what the developer's intent is, but I wonder if perhaps the PvP feature included is so that PvE players can have to worry about hitting each other as they cooperate? (A little fratricide between friends.) I mean, I've put a bullet through the skull of a friend on horde night when they walked in front of me. Whoops. Careful, spamming those melee weapons.

 

[WKeyT]

Whats wild to me is that this game is like 10 years old and there are still bugs and they dont really release any new content ever just change the progression and not just like small bugs like game breaking dupe exploits

yeah now go post that on forum, posting it here doesnt get them to fix it

Nothing will get them to fix that they dont really seem to care about anything lol. The game is being held together by mods

more pvp players that post on forum the more welling they are to fix stuff so go post what you just said on forum with console releasing soon im trying to get the word out about pvp on forum. When you get chance go to the forum and post https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/35064-v1x-developer-diary/page/187/ 7 Days to Die

 

[Crater Creator]

Whats wild to me is that this game is like 10 years old and there are still bugs and they dont really release any new content ever just change the progression and not just like small bugs like game breaking dupe exploits

Respectfully... what are you talking about?

Ten (okay, eleven) years ago the game looked like this. There were no Blood Moons. There were no skills. There were no traders, quests, vehicles, shape menus, power sources, paint textures, dynamic music tracks, Twitch actions, challenges... the list goes on. Now there are more weapons, zombie models, animals, armors, consumables, world art, and literally over a thousand POIs.

Have they changed a lot of things, and removed some other things? You betcha. But spend any time on the release notes and you’ll see a heck of a lot of genuinely new content, and a heck of a lot of bug fixes. The ones just for last year’s major release would take 28 pages to print out. So anyone saying the devs “don’t really release any new content” is either egregiously misinformed, or they use “content” to refer super narrowly to the specific things they want to see, and ignore everything else.

yeah now go post that on forum, posting it here doesnt get them to fix it

Nothing will get them to fix that they dont really seem to care about anything lol. The game is being held together by mods

more pvp players that post on forum the more welling they are to fix stuff so go post what you just said on forum with console releasing soon im trying to get the word out about pvp on forum. When you get chance go to the forum and post https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/35064-v1x-developer-diary/page/187/ 7 Days to Die

The game already released on console. And you provided a link to... this webpage, where the people reading your post already are? This is it. You’re on the forum, and you’re preaching to the choir.

 

[BFT2020]

i couldn't agree with you more on this and that is exactly where they failed. Over the years it has been no secret the biggest servers in this game that  have ever existed has been pvp servers rated by gametracker and battlemetrics. Our server alone has had over 250000 accounts log into over the years.. The pimps drpped the ball for sure on multiplayer, For years like i said earlier mods on this forum have done nothing but downplay pvp when in fact pvp players are just alive and interested in the game as pve players.

Lets say myself and a friend decided to build a game - a Co Op PvE game that we want to release

For that game, we have development goals A, B, and C.

Now lets say a fragment of the gaming community finds that they can play the game as a PvP version but there are issues.  So they tell me and my buddy that we need to make 10 changes to the game for them:

• Changes 1-3 would greatly improve the PvP experience but have a negative impact on the Co-Op PvE gameplay
  
• Changes 4-6 would greatly improve the PvP experience, but would go against development goals A, B, and C
  
• Changes 7-8 would greatly improve the PvP experience, not affect Co-Op or the development goals at all, but would require a large amount of resources to implement
  
• Change 9 would improve both the PvP and Co-Op experience 
  
• Change 10 would only improve the PvP experience with no consequences and minimum investment of resources
  

As the game developers, we would:

• Completely rule out changes 1-6 as it goes against the game we are developing
  
• Look at the business case of doing changes 7-8, but not implementing if we feel it doesn't make sense to allocate the resources to do so
  
• Assign change 9 to the team to work on
  
• Put change 10 on the list of things to work on, but at the bottom of the list (everything else is rated higher priority)
  

None of that is dropping the ball, none of that is not listening to the player base - Just because we hold true to our vision on the game and not changing it based on a section of the gaming community.