PC v1.x Developer Diary

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I still think youtube video are the best how too tutorials. Out there i am not saying because i have some videos that are almost 10 years old. I just like that platform. Better. But i never used X. Or whatever it was before. Now i am showing my age. Lol

 
thatguybeard said:
Wait you’re asking people to show you how to use X just LBD that. You’ve been posting here you should know how to post there without any instruction 😂

Look I’m not saying it’s impossible, if it was the term prodigy wouldn’t exist, just what makes more sense. I know that no matter how many stone tools I make it isn’t going to teach me how to put a working forge together. Yeah there might be a small percentage of the population that can but do you really believe a lot could? I would say the existence of schools proves otherwise and your amazingness is the exception to the rule.
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Yep, definitely not something anyone or everyone can do, but at the same time, it didn't take me long to set the record, and that only happened because I figured it out on my own, in the few minutes that I had that day.  In game, I don't know that they should even try to include this, because it is so rare.  I remember years later I took some kinda test (Myers-Briggs personality test, maybe?), and found out folks like me make up 1% of the population, which seems really rare, until you realize that, if the USA has 350,000,000 people, the there are 3.5 million INTP's running around out there.

 
Jost Amman said:
I figure out how to walk ALL BY MYSELF a long time ago... and I couldn't even read how to do it!

Does that count?  :heh:
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Heh, that's pretty good. I know you're making a joke, but I'd say yes it counts.

When my brother's family had kids I remember the discussions about childhood development. Get them to rollover onto their belly. Then get them to crawl by making them reach for things. Get them to learn to stand by hanging onto things. Get them to walk to daddy. Help them walk by holding their hand. Etc. Basically, create the optimum conditions for learning so they'll develop muscles and coordination to be on pace. There was also potty training, picture books and learning to speak, learning to read, and eventually a little preschool tyke who was using a mouse and keyboard to watch YouTube videos.

There's a lot to how people, and how humanity, really learns. It's an active area of research for colleges of education. Instruction, reading, doing, research, and more.

TFP could add in a mix of other modes of learning if they wanted. Some "learn by doing" Challenges would be kind of cool with a Magazine Point award.

Some learn through instruction might be neat if there were a person with sufficiently higher skill nearby. But I also understand if that's not a development priority or goal since the game doesn't seem like "realistic training" is a selling point. Everything is a gamified, simplified system.

 
I hope the devs add radiated versions of zombie dogs, zombie bears, dire wolfs and demolishers, doesn't make sense that they're the only zombies unaffected by radiation, plus we need harder enemies for end game. They also should add rats to the game and a monster version of them similar to the zombie rat in the soul series, that would be scary as hell.

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I agree with a mix LBD + LBR, "IF" "but not very likely to happen', looking at
the passed version history, if the "Founders" were inclined to. The venue,
goals and directives have changed at the core. This isn't a guess, but, learned
by observation of personal gameplay, the forum responses, and reading a lot.

One of the things is causality, which has guided the game development to go
from a labor of love, to a labor of intent, to just a labor to complete.

Some possible causes:

Core conflictual views; Idealism vs pragmatism, viewed in each of the Founder
videos. Dominance and desire have shifted.

Fractalized geographic; meaning remote job sourcing necessary in this instance,
but, basically illustrating the idiom "The right hand doesn't know what the left
hand is doing. Not as a jibe, but a practical look at the original magnitude of the
project, much goes on faith, and integrity, and consequently lessens oversight,
guidance, collective purpose and collective learning or sharing.

Life losses; personal and business loss, through abdication of position or
exclusion from the team, unfortunate accidents, and those no longer with us. This
can be gleaned from the plethora of historically written sources, a few examples
are The forum less the archived and redacted pages, "The credits.txt changes and the
simultaneous game changes" both internally and externally, "Google" yeah I know, but
if you look for reputable vs sensationalized it is informative, Wiki "see the Google
reference" Navezgane, Apache language, as a kickstarter, and The Wayback machine, An
archived written history of pages, sites and postings "pre and post edited. The rest
can be found if a person is truly interested.

This was learned by reading, by doing, by repeating the former two processes, and by
adapting the new knowledge and experience, objectively.

One last is the unintended result of the processes or mechanics, and the voracious and
unrelenting appetite for more. Such an intense focus has been placed on completing as
quickly as possible because for a long time it was shown that TFP would try to match
the new market demands. But production has always been outpaced because of the above,
and the sheer volume of gray-matter involved in the modding and interested player communities.
The result often was a feeling of pressure and competition real or imagined on both sides.

It's no longer a game, but inroads to a new industry standard, and you know what happens
if you come first.

One more hurdle "Dynamic Story Generation System" will it be inclusive ai Idealistically, or will

it be attempted manual event placement pragmatically.

4Sheets to the x,z,Wind, no matter which direction or speed it blows.

 
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WarMongerian said:
If  I understand you two correctly, you both use 'X'?  Any way either of you could help someone going blind you learn how to use that platform?  I can't see well any more, and would like it if someone could help me figure out how to post there.

I don't have anything to share on the whole back and forth of in-game learning, as I am still learning the game and don't really know how they could develop a better system, however, I do know a thing or two about learning how to do a thing.

Back some time ao, I had to learn how to master a skill that I had no previous experience with.  I went to that place a nobody, and ended up the man, which is to say, I out-performed everybody else that was performing that particular task, all of whom had experience doing 'it'.  No one helped me, and there was no time to read up on the topic at hand, as my very first efforts were mere minutes before my second attempt, and that just minutes before my third (and final) attempt.  My third attempt, I set a record.

I don't know to this day, weather that record was just a local record, or a (Guiness book of) world record type of thing, but I rather think that, because of the way everyone else was reacting, it was more than just a simple, local thing.

Some people, myself included, can just walk up and almost instantly do something they have never done before, and do it better than people that have been competing in that activity before, without any experience, nore applicable training, book learning, or instruction.  All the folks that are claiming that cannot happen are mistaken.  If folks want to know more, and what this thing I did was, I'll be glad to tell, in exchange for help tracking down the official records, and perhaps getting the present location (if it still exists), of the proof.  I should have kept the proof, but at the time I didn't realize that what I had done was at all 'special', because it was my first time, and I did it rather easily, so how good could it really have been?  I wish I had known then, what I know now.
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If you're vision-impaired, I would suggest moving to BSky, as the images there are usually posted with alt-text which can be read out by programs used by the visually-impaired to navigate online. The community there is also orders of magnitude better, though I'm sure I'll be accused of Having An Opinion on that.

 
WarMongerian said:
If  I understand you two correctly, you both use 'X'?  Any way either of you could help someone going blind you learn how to use that platform?  I can't see well any more, and would like it if someone could help me figure out how to post there.

I don't have anything to share on the whole back and forth of in-game learning, as I am still learning the game and don't really know how they could develop a better system, however, I do know a thing or two about learning how to do a thing.

Back some time ao, I had to learn how to master a skill that I had no previous experience with.  I went to that place a nobody, and ended up the man, which is to say, I out-performed everybody else that was performing that particular task, all of whom had experience doing 'it'.  No one helped me, and there was no time to read up on the topic at hand, as my very first efforts were mere minutes before my second attempt, and that just minutes before my third (and final) attempt.  My third attempt, I set a record.

I don't know to this day, weather that record was just a local record, or a (Guiness book of) world record type of thing, but I rather think that, because of the way everyone else was reacting, it was more than just a simple, local thing.

Some people, myself included, can just walk up and almost instantly do something they have never done before, and do it better than people that have been competing in that activity before, without any experience, nore applicable training, book learning, or instruction.  All the folks that are claiming that cannot happen are mistaken.  If folks want to know more, and what this thing I did was, I'll be glad to tell, in exchange for help tracking down the official records, and perhaps getting the present location (if it still exists), of the proof.  I should have kept the proof, but at the time I didn't realize that what I had done was at all 'special', because it was my first time, and I did it rather easily, so how good could it really have been?  I wish I had known then, what I know now.
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There are a wide variety of skills and abilities people have.  These can all lead to someone being able to do something they haven't done before.  I've never fixed a washing machine... Until I did.  I never changed an alternator... Until I did.  How was I able to?  I'm not a mechanic or an appliance repair person.  It is because I have mechanical knowledge and understanding of how things generally function.  Using that, I can figure out a lot of things.  However, this is a very different thing from crafting advanced items without any prior skill or knowledge. 

Can you craft a spaceship?  A nuclear reactor? A submarine?  An airplane?  Even a car?  Without instructions or help, probably not.  Will crafting a bicycle allow you to craft a motorcycle?  No.  It doesn't matter how many bicycles you craft, if you don't know how to make an engine and have an understanding of how engines and carburators and such work, you aren't going to learn that from building bikes.

Looking at basic electronics in the game.  I could probably figure out how to build a working lightbulb with trial and error.  But I can't do that "just because".  I can do that because I have an education that has taught me how lightbulbs work and what their components are, and I also have learned the basics of how glass blowing works and have seen it done.  With that knowledge I already learned through education (that includes teachers, reading, and watching videos/TV/movies), there is a decent chance I could figure it out... In time.  But that is once again because of education.  If I had never learned any of that, it is doubtful I could make one.  At least, not without years of effort.  And that is a basic lightbulb.  Now consider something like a generator, which is also pretty basic compared to a car.  I couldn't begin to tell you how to build that because I have no education in how they are designed.  I could take one apart and, if I had all the parts, I could put a new one together... Maybe.  But I couldn't just create one.  But there are people who do have that education and could do so. 

The point is that education of some form is pretty much required before you start trying to create something.  In the game, that comes from magazines, which you might consider calling instruction manuals is that helps to make it feel more accurate.  Can someone like a savant figure stuff out with zero prior knowledge or background?  If their exceptional ability is related, sure.  A math savant would be great at math, even math they haven't seen before.  But ask them to do something like repair a car and they likely wouldn't have a clue if they've never been taught how.  Savants aren't exceptionally skilled in everything.  And even if they were, savants are relatively rare.  And considering you start the game with zero experience points, the idea is that you are generally unskilled (or at least have pretty basic skills and abilities) at the start of the game, so you are not a savant. 

Besides, this game already has LBD. It just isn't connected to crafting and is generalized.  It isn't like Skyrim, where you get better at a specific skill by doing it over and over.  Instead, it is like most other RPGs, where everything you do gets you general experience that you can then use to improve skills that you want.  If you want to be a great farmer, do stuff until you have enough experience to level up a bit and put points into living off the land.  You have now gotten better at farming by doing things.  Crafting is really the only part that isn't LBD, and for that, I am grateful.

Once last thing to consider... Although a limited number of items are crafted using parts, most are not.  Most are crafted using stuff like scraps of metal, pieces of plastic, duct tape, etc.  Even if you considered the electrical and mechanical components to be very specific components that are ready to go without any tinkering, you are still just cobbling stuff together instead of just connecting parts together on the right order.  That is much more complicated without knowledge.

 
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I agree their are so many people that  have so many multiple different skill out there. Everyone different. That doesn't make some better than the next person. Just makes you unique and "YOU". Mind you some people are better at stuff than others or can get farther in life  because of the combination of skills they have. But that also a bit of luck. Myself i am freakishly weird at looking at something anything and know how it works. I also have a thing where I can figure what happened, who did it or what going on. Kind of a useless skill but a skill never the less. I can read people extremely well. I look at things and people i notice the details.  I can tell if someone lies. Anyways my point is everyone good at something. Many things that what makes you, you.

Back seven days... I would love more creators Radioactive. Animals  would add to the game. Same with insects spiders, roaches and locust.  More different zombies too. maybe another 10. Look at the same zombie faces. Bla example thin zombie cop girl and man or swat. Fire fighter, a male doctor. Farmers. Add some clerks. Fast food clerks or store clerks. Add more types of zombies could add to the story line and poi. Add more Skins to the zombies. Or make a skin system that can add more of a mix.

 
WarMongerian said:
If folks want to know more, and what this thing I did was, I'll be glad to tell, in exchange for help tracking down the official records, and perhaps getting the present location (if it still exists), of the proof.
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How about you tell in exchange for me believing that your ambiguous story has any actual parallel to the type of learning depicted in the game? :)

Besides how can we help track down official records and get proof of this thing if we have absolutely no idea what it is? For all we know you walked into a carnival and saw people attempting to throw rings onto a coke bottle and on your third try you were the best. What do I put into the search engine?

One could even argue from the little you shared that the part of your story where you showed up and watched what everyone was doing and then tried it yourself constituted the "learn by reading" part of learning. If you were able to master it by your third attempt then there wasn't much "learn by doing" involved. Your incredibly sharp mind picked up all the information you needed by quickly processing the information you saw and then translated it into you being able to perform with very little repetitive action needed.

But without any details it's impossible to know for sure.

 
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Roland said:
How about you tell in exchange for me believing that your ambiguous story has any actual parallel to the type of learning depicted in the game? :)
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Closest thing to in game learning, would be learn by doing, but as you have already pointed out, there wasn't all that much 'learning' going on, as I was able to figure things out, all on my own, and in just a couple minutes.  Which is why I posted this as a refutation for those claiming that 'no one' can do something, better than others, until they have gone through extensive training.

Roland said:
Besides how can we help track down official records and get proof of this thing if we have absolutely no idea what it is? For all we know you walked into a carnival and saw people attempting to throw rings onto a coke bottle and on your third try you were the best. What do I put into the search engine?
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Well, since you asked, I feel it is ok to tell a bit more...

I don't know how to track down the official records, but if I was to still have my eyesight and health, I'd probably start looking into the 101st airborne infantry division, and then track down the unit I was assigned to within the 101st, which was Charlie company, 4th Battalion, 502nd regiment, of the 101st airborne infantry division, which at the time (1987), was part of the US Army Berlin.

This was my assigned duty station at the time, 1987-1989, two years behind the Iron Curtain (back when there was such a thing).  I don't remember the specific date we got our orders, but there would have only been one such date in 1987, where my units' machine gunners and assistant gunners were sent to West Germany, from West Berlin, to a place I cannot spell, but it was named something like (Wild Flicken).

Whit that information in hand, and access to folks that could look up who was there, maybe I could get back in touch with some of the guys I remember interacting with that day, like the lieutenant that was about to throw me off the range, until he looked downrage, and upon seeing the 1,000 meter target drop (from the single round I had just fired, in defiance to his repeated orders to instead fire the proscribed 6-9 round burst at all the targets, instead of the 2-3 rounds I had been using before this), or maybe my gunner (I was his assistant gunner when we were sent to the crew served weapons qualifications back then), or perhaps the guy who I ran into that day, who had always come in second place at the previous qualifications, 2nd only to my roommate, who was always the 1st place at quch events, but was home on leave that time, and when he cried out with joy at finding out that my roommate wasn't there, he claimed that this time, at last, he would win, I indignantly said "I haven't shot yet", to which he responded to with q dismissive. "You're just an AG (Assistant Gunner), which, after all that had happened that day already, was like waving a red flag a a bull, nd made me double down on doing my very best.

Roland said:
One could even argue from the little you shared that the part of your story where you showed up and watched what everyone was doing and then tried it yourself constituted the "learn by reading" part of learning.
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There was no reading involved, but good point about the previous lack of details.

Roland said:
If you were able to master it by your third attempt then there wasn't much "learn by doing" involved.
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Correct.  I learned by doing, but the learning  did was limited to watching my gunner fire the (M60) machine gun, going up to the targets, watching him mare each hole his rounds had left on the target, and his explaining why the procedure was the way it was, and loading the gun for his second and third attempts, and then it was my turn, so he loaded and I fired, and three attempts later...

Roland said:
Your incredibly sharp mind picked up all the information you needed by quickly processing the information you saw and then translated it into you being able to perform with very little repetitive action needed.

But without any details it's impossible to know for sure.
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By now, you probably realise, that I am just dying to be able to share the full story, but without the target itself (which my gunner asked to keep, and was proud to show it off to anyone he could that day at the range, and everyone was like "No way" and all doubting and disbelieving of what they saw, including that officer that was threatening to throw me off the range, until I dropped the 1,000 meter target, with a single round), so.

Based on the reactions of all the other gunners' reactions, it was only after I had already given the target to my gunner, that I began to think twice about what I had done.  All of them said they had not seen this before, so I have to wonder just how rare what I did was.  By the way they were carrying on, it seemed like it was more than just a 'local' record, and by stuff that happened afterwards, well...

I just had my 61st birthday, and likely as not, I will not live to see my 62nd, so it would be great if I could track down that target, and be able to share an image of it with everyone.

 
WarMongerian said:
Roland said:
Your incredibly sharp mind picked up all the information you needed by quickly processing the information you saw and then translated it into you being able to perform with very little repetitive action needed.

But without any details it's impossible to know for sure.
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By now, you probably realise, that I am just dying to be able to share the full story, but without the target itself (which my gunner asked to keep, and was proud to show it off to anyone he could that day at the range, and everyone was like "No way" and all doubting and disbelieving of what they saw, including that officer that was threatening to throw me off the range, until I dropped the 1,000 meter target, with a single round), so.
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First of all, as someone who has a great interest in the military and respect everyone who served, thank you.

Now to get on topic. You didn't drop the target at 1000m without any sort of pre-existing knowledge and training though (which does require alot of reading in the military and don't tell me otherwise) and you obviously had some weapons training that led up to that incredible moment. It's not like in-game, where someone like myself, who has never handled an M60, can just pick one up and figure it out on my own.

If you were to drop an M60 in front of me right now and said......."learn it, but you can't look up any videos or read any books or manuals about it or anything". You could come back a year later and you be VERY disappointed in how little I still know about that M60.

You were obviously very talented at what you did. So much so that even your officers and other superiors were impressed. That's great. But this makes you an anomaly, not the norm, and the game is not designed for those in the 1% percentile. It's designed for norms like myself in mind. What would a normal person (99% percentile) do in this situation. Are you an expert in foraging too? Would you know the difference between a safe mushroom to another without reading or learning about it beforehand? I know I wouldn't. Try that by "learn by doing" and see where it gets you.

Now, all that said, this is a zombie video game and video games are designed to be fun and not to emulate real life (which would be VERY boring). I don't care what skills any of us have mastered in real life.....none of us know how much of that information would translate into a real life zombie apocalypse or be useful since none of us has have experienced it.

 
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Toilet Pistol said:
First of all, as someone who has a great interest in the military and respect everyone who served, thank you.

Now to get on topic. You didn't drop the target at 1000m without any sort of pre-existing knowledge and training though (which does require alot of reading in the military and don't tell me otherwise) and you obviously had some weapons training that led up to that incredible moment. It's not like in-game, where someone like myself, who has never handled an M60, can just pick one up and figure it out on my own.

If you were to drop an M60 in front of me right now and said......."learn it, but you can't look up any videos or read any books or manuals about it or anything". You could come back a year later and you be VERY disappointed in how little I still know about that M60.

You were obviously very talented at what you did. So much so that even your officers and other superiors were impressed. That's great. But this makes you an anomaly, not the norm, and the game is not designed for those in the 1% percentile. It's designed for norms like myself in mind. What would a normal person (99% percentile) do in this situation. Are you an expert in foraging too? Would you know the difference between a safe mushroom to another without reading or learning about it beforehand? I know I wouldn't. Try that by "learn by doing" and see where it gets you.

Now, all that said, this is a zombie video game and video games are designed to be fun and not to emulate real life (which would be VERY boring). I don't care what skills any of us have mastered in real life.....none of us know how much of that information would translate into a real life zombie apocalypse or be useful since none of us has have experienced it.
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I disagree on this. LBD is very much the method you use when getting better at shooting with a gun, besides some techniques a teacher might provide you. Same with many sports activities and anything that needs muscle memory

But I had the impression we were talking about the magazine system and crafting !? And crafting is more about finding out about recipes and how things work. And therefore magazines are quite good at simulating how you get better at crafting more more stuff.

 
Space4Ace said:
@faatal Hi Shawn,

Any progress on Cross-play that you can share?

Keep up the good work.
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Actually, his name spells Shaun...  :heh:

th

 
So, assuming everything goes well and cross-play and such is added... if or when mods are introduced (and gosh, I really hope mods are introduced!) how will those work for console? I assume big mod overhauls that add stuff probably won't be able to be played (valid, they are very resource intensive even for PC!) but small things like xml edits, loot changes, etc.

 
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