PC Underground bases - what's the status of making them vulnerable to zombies?

I'm sorry but isn't that just moving the safety area? Underground was safe but then you said you want to go underground but need threats to make it more fun.
What if I say I want to live in a settlement but I want threats in there to make it more fun for me. Seems like the same argument. As a matter of fact i'd argue a zombie horde decending on an npc settlement and you helping defend it in a massive battle sounds like way more fun than sitting underground and just defending yourself.

Just my 2c
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Yes but there is a difference between the snoozefest gameplay of a single POI vs an entire biome that makes up more than half the play space of the entire map. I would agree with you that having threats be an aspect of settlements WOULD be better and helping a settlement to defend from a horde attack would be much much better gameplay than simply paying the community leader rent to stay on a patch of land that keeps you 100% safe.

But given the chance of having a more interesting underworld at the cost of a more boring POI I would take that in a heartbeat even if I felt some disappointment that settlements could have been so much more. And if the devs are going to accomodate those who want a safe haven for their playstyle, I think it is a good compromise as it is much easier to just not pay the cost for safety in a settlement than it is just to not play underground.

 
I think you missed my point.
Underground bases aren't an exploit, and aren't any different than a stilt or mushroom base, or constantly running. They all use the game mechanics properly.

Everyone who plays is deliberately evading the title of the game. The name may be "7 days to die", but everyone is really trying pretty hard not to :smile-new: .

I agree that the game needs to be balanced a lot better for risk vs. reward. I don't think underground bases are the biggest balance issue, though. I'd rather TFP get the loot drops more in line with the level of the zombie; right now, there's really no reason to fight the tougher zombies when you are most likely to either get no loot or goldenrod seed.
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Aside from balance there is fun. TFP isn't living up to their namesake regarding the underworld. Players may be trying to avoid the name of the game but the developers shouldn't be avoiding the middle name of their company, IMO. ;)

 
How to not let players build underground bases:

make stone 1000x times harder to mine

(also make it give 1000x resources so the above-ground gameplay remains the same)

 
I don't see the point of this entire argument. If I want to play safe, or pvp, or hardcore permadeath zombie fragfest, I pick a server that supports that. With settings, or a mod, or a bot. All the pimps need to do is to allow for these things and get the basics done well. Most of the long-running games are being kept alive by community contributions. At least it feels like that to me. I want 7dtd to be very long-running. I run a vanilla server with a bot for over a year now, it's more fun every wipe. I an enjoying the hell out of it, and what I fear most are artificial constraints. We are defining our own parameters and do's and dont's.I am toying with my own bot and am learning python in doing so, so we have something we can tailor to our specific needs. The pimps and modders, like alloc, make it supremely easy. That should be the core concern. More stuff in the game, all optional. Make it stable. Have a fun game for the next eight years. Just my 2c ;-)

 
How to not let players build underground bases:
make stone 1000x times harder to mine

(also make it give 1000x resources so the above-ground gameplay remains the same)
Click to expand...
I can not see how this could possibly break completely mining.

/sarcasm

 
How to not let players build underground bases:
make stone 1000x times harder to mine

(also make it give 1000x resources so the above-ground gameplay remains the same)
Click to expand...
The goal is encourage more underground base building by making it challenging and interesting— not to prevent everyone from building there...

 
Some time ago we discussed about settlements and factions and one of the things we talked about was more elaborate chain-quests. Believe it or not one of the ideas was a quest about helping a settlement to defend during a bloodmoon. :-]

As some have said underground bases should be made more challenging/fun to play, not removed.

Having the alternative to seek protection within some faction you become friend with?

Fits perfectly the theme and purpose of the game IMO.

However I can't stop thinking that it will all boil down to how good an AI the devs will be able to implement in the remaining time before release. If you think about it, adding settlements bustling with people living their lives will be a design and coding challenge for TFP since it will be necessary to make them look alive and realistic.

Defending during a BM with NPCs assigned to specific parts of the settlement, each of them reacting to the (possible) death of their friends or having panic attacks when/if the zombies break in, would be both great and very difficult to code...

Are we sure all this can be done before release with the time and resources available? :-|

 
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Back to what I've said from the start. I have no problem with underground having special building requirements. Occasional air shafts required for ventilation. Make fires and machinery generate smoke that can't be breathed, and only allow ventilation to remove it. Reduce the effectiveness of plant growth underground significantly. Maybe make them tend to collect water at low points and flood a bit during heavy rainstorms. More areas underground that lack support and a prone to sectional (versus single block wide) cave-ins. Probably should also require additional bracing for tunnels and rooms to restrain overhead weight against sections of the roof falling in - it's not a mistake that real-world mines tend to have lots of shoring beams and timbers. No made up special things, just practical real-world challenges that need to be overcome.

Also, make zombies tend to congregate at entry points like hatches and other clearly manmade spots. Make it dangerous to have just one entrance or exit. Make the player underground have to worry that if they just pop up from a hole, there will be something right there waiting for them.

 
The goal is encourage more underground base building by making it challenging and interesting— not to prevent everyone from building there...
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Well, this is actually a good view ;) Underground monsters would be so cool! Like giant mutated moles!

Also fast digging zombies would be cool... as well as lava pockets

 
I think zombies should be able to detect entrances to your base from a far distance. The main reason they are so zombie proof is because they can never find the way in.

 
The goal is encourage more underground base building by making it challenging and interesting— not to prevent everyone from building there...
Click to expand...
You want to encourage people to go underground bring back the cave system you had several alphas ago. The one with large chambers some of which were flooded with connecting tunnels and zombies that would spawn underground in those chambers.

No other change will get me underground. I find the whole mining experience to be boring and there is no change that will get me to stare at a rock wall while a pick hits it.

 
Yes but there is a difference between the snoozefest gameplay of a single POI vs an entire biome that makes up more than half the play space of the entire map. I would agree with you that having threats be an aspect of settlements WOULD be better and helping a settlement to defend from a horde attack would be much much better gameplay than simply paying the community leader rent to stay on a patch of land that keeps you 100% safe.
But given the chance of having a more interesting underworld at the cost of a more boring POI I would take that in a heartbeat even if I felt some disappointment that settlements could have been so much more. And if the devs are going to accomodate those who want a safe haven for their playstyle, I think it is a good compromise as it is much easier to just not pay the cost for safety in a settlement than it is just to not play underground.
Click to expand...
I have my doubts. What are TFP going to do for Underground? Oxygen? Black lung? These don't really feel very fun imo. The only way to make it fun is with zombies. So how would that work? Tunneling? Swiss cheese lands again? Assuming it's zombies tunneling in, in sorry but where's the defensive strategy for that? Kinda just seems like boring zombie coming for you just for the sake of tension. I'm not saying it won't work. I have had many doubts about things TFP have done in the past, just to be proven wrong. But I just don't see it.

Now on the other hand. A settlement needing your assistance to defend against an incoming horde sounds awesome. Plenty of room to set up defenses and help defend. Sounds great. And I don't see why the size of the biome matters really.

Either way I can't wait to see what TFP do with this issue. I'm either be wrong and have a great time underground or I'll be right and be able to say I told you so 😁

 
You want to encourage people to go underground bring back the cave system you had several alphas ago. The one with large chambers some of which were flooded with connecting tunnels and zombies that would spawn underground in those chambers.
No other change will get me underground. I find the whole mining experience to be boring and there is no change that will get me to stare at a rock wall while a pick hits it.
Click to expand...
This is why I usually don't do much heavy mining until I get the auger. That thing just chews thru all that.

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I have my doubts. What are TFP going to do for Underground? Oxygen? Black lung? These don't really feel very fun imo. The only way to make it fun is with zombies. So how would that work? Tunneling? Swiss cheese lands again? Assuming it's zombies tunneling in, in sorry but where's the defensive strategy for that? Kinda just seems like boring zombie coming for you just for the sake of tension. I'm not saying it won't work. I have had many doubts about things TFP have done in the past, just to be proven wrong. But I just don't see it.
Now on the other hand. A settlement needing your assistance to defend against an incoming horde sounds awesome. Plenty of room to set up defenses and help defend. Sounds great. And I don't see why the size of the biome matters really.

Either way I can't wait to see what TFP do with this issue. I'm either be wrong and have a great time underground or I'll be right and be able to say I told you so ��
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In the darkness falls mod, the trader buildings aren't land protected, and it has npc guards on it, that shoot at zombies. There are also quests you can buy to do that I assume spawns a horde to attack the trader outpost and you get rewarded for helping to defend it. The trader npc themselves is immortal, but his entire base can be destroyed by zombies... Or by yourself if you wanted to. This has the flip side of you being able to go in there 24/7 too I think. P.s. the iron spear made with a irow arrowhead and 2 short iron pipes is awesome.

 
I don't see the point of this entire argument. If I want to play safe, or pvp, or hardcore permadeath zombie fragfest, I pick a server that supports that. With settings, or a mod, or a bot. All the pimps need to do is to allow for these things and get the basics done well. Most of the long-running games are being kept alive by community contributions. At least it feels like that to me. I want 7dtd to be very long-running. I run a vanilla server with a bot for over a year now, it's more fun every wipe. I an enjoying the hell out of it, and what I fear most are artificial constraints. We are defining our own parameters and do's and dont's.I am toying with my own bot and am learning python in doing so, so we have something we can tailor to our specific needs. The pimps and modders, like alloc, make it supremely easy. That should be the core concern. More stuff in the game, all optional. Make it stable. Have a fun game for the next eight years. Just my 2c ;-)
Click to expand...
This.

As long as we can mod we can decide the difficulty.

Why even bother with underground?

I people want to live at bedrock, let them.

I modded mines so i can pick them up again, i assume a lot of people think that is a big nono, who cares?

As long as you can play your way and i can play my way, we both win. :)

 
Now on the other hand. A settlement needing your assistance to defend against an incoming horde sounds awesome. Plenty of room to set up defenses and help defend. Sounds great. And I don't see why the size of the biome matters really.
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Safe settlements could easily be a game option, whether you wanna hide in them or fight for them.

Underground is more complicated. It's kind of logical that people would seek shelter underground and it makes sense to make it more interesting for everybody.

Tbh I'm not sure it's easily done with zobies. (tunneling zombies is a no go) The "underground biome" could have its disadvantages. The cold and damp environment would make healing slower and forges/campfires produce stuff slower, no farming etc.

 
This is why I usually don't do much heavy mining until I get the auger. That thing just chews thru all that.
- - - Updated - - -

In the darkness falls mod, the trader buildings aren't land protected, and it has npc guards on it, that shoot at zombies. There are also quests you can buy to do that I assume spawns a horde to attack the trader outpost and you get rewarded for helping to defend it. The trader npc themselves is immortal, but his entire base can be destroyed by zombies... Or by yourself if you wanted to. This has the flip side of you being able to go in there 24/7 too I think. P.s. the iron spear made with a irow arrowhead and 2 short iron pipes is awesome.
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Oh, I'm aware. I love Darkness Falls mod.

 
This.Why even bother with underground?

As long as you can play your way and i can play my way, we both win. :)
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I urge you to read the whole thread because this circlejerk of a discussion is tiring and fruitless.

This thread is being posted every month since alpha 1, there is a reason for this.

It's not about people trying to force a playstyle upon others or other shenanigans, it's about players not being able to enjoy half of the game's worldspace. Do you see players being bashed for playing in creative? No. Not everyone may feel this way, but anyone who wants to play a complete, coherent survival (among other genres) game does. Because at the moment it is not, for this and other reasons not to be discussed in this thread.

 
This is why I usually don't do much heavy mining until I get the auger. That thing just chews thru all that.
- - - Updated - - -

In the darkness falls mod, the trader buildings aren't land protected, and it has npc guards on it, that shoot at zombies. There are also quests you can buy to do that I assume spawns a horde to attack the trader outpost and you get rewarded for helping to defend it. The trader npc themselves is immortal, but his entire base can be destroyed by zombies... Or by yourself if you wanted to. This has the flip side of you being able to go in there 24/7 too I think. P.s. the iron spear made with a irow arrowhead and 2 short iron pipes is awesome.
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If only there was a way for you to publicly prove it... ;)
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Ikr. If ya think of any ways for me to show my love for the mod you let me know k.

 
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