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True Survival

Hats off to Spider for a mod with some truly amazing design concepts. We've been playing it for a couple of weeks now on a private AWS RHEL 7 instance, and I've been tweaking it as we go when someone notices a problem (usually when I'm busy fleeing from a pack of dire wolves). A few of the things that we've found:
The nutrition system should work as implemented; but it doesn't. From our experience, it seems that it becomes harder and harder to avoid becoming 'malnourished' the longer you play (specifically, the more times you die). There's a post from another mod creator (that I can't seem to find at the moment) suggesting that permanent incremental custom buff values (like nutrition and scratch) can persist as a variable in player save files after death - which is a hard-coded issue, and not anything mod specific. I suspect that this is what's happening with the nutrition and scratch values and why they appear to increase faster and faster after each death. I'm trying to find a workaround, but for the time being I've locked the baseline nutrition and malnutrition values to 0 in buffs.xml:

Code: 
<buff id="nutrition_30_Trigger" duration="1" actions="increment(nutrition, 30, 0, 0, 1);[b]min(nutrition, 0)[/b]" />
<buff id="nutritionFade" buffif="nutrition greater 0" debuffif="nutrition less 1" duration="0" actions="increment(nutrition, -1, 900, 0, 0);[b]min(nutrition, 0)[/b]" />

<buff id="scratch" duration="1" actions="increment(scratch, 1, 0, 0, 1);[b]max(scratch, 0)[/b]" />
<buff id="scratchesHealing" duration="0" buffif="scratch less 6" debuffif="scratch gequal 6" actions="increment(scratch, -1, 1200, 0, 0);[b]max(scratch, 0)[/b]" />
And then remove the requires="goodNutrition1Tag" flag from the eatFood Triggers so that food will potentially heal you:

Code: 
<buff id="eatFood_1_Trigger" requires="goodNutrition1Tag" duration="1" actions="increment(CTRfood, 1, 0, 0, 1)"/>
to

Code: 
<buff id="eatFood_1_Trigger" duration="1" actions="increment(CTRfood, 1, 0, 0, 1)"/>
Etc.. Also, the dismemberment chance for most perks doesn't seem correct: look at bladeWeaponsAction, for example, and cycle through the 1 to 100 levels and you'll see that it shows "None" for levels 4 to 100. In progression.xml, DismembermentChance is configured as:

Code: 
                       <effect name="DismembermentChance">
                               <add perk_level="0" value="0" />
                               <add skill_level="1" value="0.1" />
                               <add skill_level="2" value="0.2" />
                               <add skill_level="3" value="0.3" />
                       </effect>
For a 1 to 100 increment, it should be something like:

Code: 
                       <effect name="DismembermentChance">
                               <multiply perk_level="0" value="1"/>
                               <multiply skill_level="1,5" value="1,1.04"/>
                               <multiply skill_level="5,11" value="1.04,1.07"/>
                               <multiply skill_level="11,19" value="1.07,1.1"/>
                               <multiply skill_level="19,32" value="1.1,1.14"/>
                               <multiply skill_level="32,49" value="1.14,1.19"/>
                               <multiply skill_level="49,70" value="1.19,1.23"/>
                               <multiply skill_level="70,100" value="1.23,1.28"/>
                       </effect>
We've also added some quality of life changes (like more common gas, etc.) while trying to maintain the mod's focus on maximum challenge. I figure that it'll be another week or two of tweaks and general hitting of things with a hammer. After which, I'll upload the changes for anyone who wants to try them.
Click to expand...
These changes sound great, please do upload them when you've got them more to your liking.

 
One more question - there isn't a Duct Tape recipe in this mod. Duct Tape used in more than twenty recipes, for example in exploding crossbow bolts, armors, landmines, e.t.c. But I can loot it only in cars. I think this some disbalance.

 
These changes sound great, please do upload them when you've got them more to your liking.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Love the mod, but those changes seem to address most of the concerns we've had when playing it.

 
....The nutrition system should work as implemented; but it doesn't. From our experience, it seems that it becomes harder and harder to avoid becoming 'malnourished' the longer you play (specifically, the more times you die). There's a post from another mod creator (that I can't seem to find at the moment) suggesting that permanent incremental custom buff values (like nutrition and scratch) can persist as a variable in player save files after death - which is a hard-coded issue, and not anything mod specific. I suspect that this is what's happening with the nutrition and scratch values and why they appear to increase faster and faster after each death....
Click to expand...
i had problems myself understanding the nutrition system, what i did its show the nutrition value in the hud so as player i get more info of whats going on. Seeing the actual values gives it more sense.

[see code in next post]

nutrition does reset on death (at least in my singleplayer game)

malnourished reset when nutrition>=15

its indeed very hard not to get bad diet buff once u die.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
in buffs.xml to show Nutrition value on UI

Code: 
<buff id="nutrition0" actions="debuff(nutrition1)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 0" debuffif="nutrition greater 0" name_key="0 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_malnourished3"/>
<buff id="nutrition1" actions="debuff(nutrition2)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 1" debuffif="nutrition greater 1" name_key="1 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_malnourished3"/>
<buff id="nutrition2" actions="debuff(nutrition3)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 2" debuffif="nutrition greater 2" name_key="2 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_malnourished3"/>
<buff id="nutrition3" actions="debuff(nutrition4)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 3" debuffif="nutrition greater 3" name_key="3 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_malnourished3"/>
<buff id="nutrition4" actions="debuff(nutrition5)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 4" debuffif="nutrition greater 4" name_key="4 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_malnourished3"/>
<buff id="nutrition5" actions="debuff(nutrition6)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 5" debuffif="nutrition greater 5" name_key="5 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_malnourished2"/>
<buff id="nutrition6" actions="debuff(nutrition7)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 6" debuffif="nutrition greater 6" name_key="6 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_malnourished2"/>
<buff id="nutrition7" actions="debuff(nutrition8)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 7" debuffif="nutrition greater 7" name_key="7 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_malnourished2"/>
<buff id="nutrition8" actions="debuff(nutrition9)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 8" debuffif="nutrition greater 8" name_key="8 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_malnourished2"/>
<buff id="nutrition9" actions="debuff(nutrition10)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 9" debuffif="nutrition greater 9" name_key="9 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_malnourished1"/>
<buff id="nutrition10" actions="debuff(nutrition11)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 10" debuffif="nutrition greater 10" name_key="10 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_malnourished1"/>
<buff id="nutrition11" actions="debuff(nutrition12)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 11" debuffif="nutrition greater 11" name_key="11 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_malnourished1"/>
<buff id="nutrition12" actions="debuff(nutrition13)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 12" debuffif="nutrition greater 12" name_key="12 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_malnourished1"/>
<buff id="nutrition13" actions="debuff(nutrition14)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 13" debuffif="nutrition greater 13" name_key="13 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_malnourished1"/>
<buff id="nutrition14" actions="debuff(nutrition15)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 14" debuffif="nutrition greater 14" name_key="14 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_malnourished1"/>
<buff id="nutrition15" actions="debuff(nutrition16)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 15" debuffif="nutrition greater 15" name_key="15 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_goodNutrition1"/>
<buff id="nutrition16" actions="debuff(nutrition17)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 16" debuffif="nutrition greater 16" name_key="16 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_goodNutrition1"/>
<buff id="nutrition17" actions="debuff(nutrition18)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 17" debuffif="nutrition greater 17" name_key="17 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_goodNutrition1"/>
<buff id="nutrition18" actions="debuff(nutrition19)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 18" debuffif="nutrition greater 18" name_key="18 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_goodNutrition1"/>
<buff id="nutrition19" actions="debuff(nutrition20)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 19" debuffif="nutrition greater 19" name_key="19 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_goodNutrition1"/>
<buff id="nutrition20" actions="debuff(nutrition21)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 20" debuffif="nutrition greater 20" name_key="20 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_goodNutrition1"/>
<buff id="nutrition21" actions="debuff(nutrition22)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 21" debuffif="nutrition greater 21" name_key="21 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_goodNutrition1"/>
<buff id="nutrition22" actions="debuff(nutrition23)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 22" debuffif="nutrition greater 22" name_key="22 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_goodNutrition1"/>
<buff id="nutrition23" actions="debuff(nutrition24)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 23" debuffif="nutrition greater 23" name_key="23 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_goodNutrition1"/>
<buff id="nutrition24" actions="debuff(nutrition25)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 24" debuffif="nutrition greater 24" name_key="24 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_goodNutrition2"/>
<buff id="nutrition25" actions="debuff(nutrition26)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 25" debuffif="nutrition greater 25" name_key="25 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_goodNutrition2"/>
<buff id="nutrition26" actions="debuff(nutrition27)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 26" debuffif="nutrition greater 26" name_key="26 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_goodNutrition2"/>
<buff id="nutrition27" actions="debuff(nutrition28)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 27" debuffif="nutrition greater 27" name_key="27 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_goodNutrition2"/>
<buff id="nutrition28" actions="debuff(nutrition29)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 28" debuffif="nutrition greater 28" name_key="28 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_goodNutrition2"/>
<buff id="nutrition29" actions="debuff(nutrition30)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 29" debuffif="nutrition greater 29" name_key="29 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_goodNutrition2"/>
<buff id="nutrition30" actions="debuff(nutrition31)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 30" debuffif="nutrition greater 30" name_key="30 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_goodNutrition2"/>
<buff id="nutrition31" actions="debuff(nutrition32)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 31" debuffif="nutrition greater 31" name_key="31 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_goodNutrition2"/>
<buff id="nutrition32" actions="debuff(nutrition33)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 32" debuffif="nutrition greater 32" name_key="32 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_goodNutrition2"/>
<buff id="nutrition33" actions="debuff(nutrition34)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 33" debuffif="nutrition greater 33" name_key="33 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_goodNutrition2"/>
<buff id="nutrition34" actions="debuff(nutrition35)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 34" debuffif="nutrition greater 34" name_key="34 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_goodNutrition2"/>
<buff id="nutrition35" actions="debuff(nutrition36)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 35" debuffif="nutrition greater 35" name_key="35 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_goodNutrition3"/>
<buff id="nutrition36" actions="debuff(nutrition37)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 36" debuffif="nutrition greater 36" name_key="36 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_goodNutrition3"/>
<buff id="nutrition37" actions="debuff(nutrition38)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 37" debuffif="nutrition greater 37" name_key="37 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_goodNutrition3"/>
<buff id="nutrition38" actions="debuff(nutrition39)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 38" debuffif="nutrition greater 38" name_key="38 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_goodNutrition3"/>
<buff id="nutrition39" actions="debuff(nutrition40)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 39" debuffif="nutrition greater 39" name_key="39 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_goodNutrition3"/>
<buff id="nutrition40" actions="debuff(nutrition41)" duration="0"  buffif="nutrition gequal 40" debuffif="nutrition greater 40" name_key="40 Nutrition" tooltip_key="Nutrition" description_key="Nutrition" icon="ui_game_symbol_goodNutrition3"/>
 
Last edited by a moderator:
i had problems myself understanding the nutrition system, what i did its show the nutrition value in the hud so as player i get more info of whats going on. Seeing the actual values gives it more sense.
[see code in next post]

nutrition does reset on death (at least in my singleplayer game)

malnourished reset when nutrition>=15

its indeed very hard not to get bad diet buff once u die.
Click to expand...
The .xml logic is fine, and that's why I mentioned that it should work as designed. My point is that nutrition is persisting after death in the player save file. Here's a recent test:

I created a new character on a server with the current nutrition system in place, and then ran a hexdump on the .ttp file:

Code: 
hexdump -C <SteamID>.ttp | grep nutrition
000002f0  6e 75 74 72 69 74 69 6f  6e 00 45 47 72 61 70 68  |nutrition.EGraph|
00000360  00 ff ff ff ff 09 6e 75  74 72 69 74 69 6f 6e 00  |......nutrition.|
As expected nutrition is saved as a variable. Then I edited the buffs.xml removing ALL references to the nutrition system. I restarted the game server, logged the same character in, killed him. respawned and logged out. Checking the same player save file:

Code: 
hexdump -C <SteamID>.ttp | grep nutrition
000005b0  09 6e 75 74 72 69 74 69  6f 6e 01 00 00 00 00 00  |.nutrition......|
So, a nutrition value appears to be saved in the player's save file forever, despite the fact that all references to nutrition were removed from buffs.xml. As a control test, I deleted the player save file and logged back in (with the no-nutrition version of buffs.xml). The new player save file had no reference to 'nutrition' at all.

Taking all this into consideration, I'm playing around with the 'initvars' buff (triggers on respawn after death) to see if adding a setvar 0 for nutrition, malnutrition and scratch will help. If not, IMO the whole nutrition/scratch system might not be salvageable.

 
One more question - there isn't a Duct Tape recipe in this mod. Duct Tape used in more than twenty recipes, for example in exploding crossbow bolts, armors, landmines, e.t.c. But I can loot it only in cars. I think this some disbalance.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah, duct tape was one of the first things we re-added :smile-new: Along with the old glue recipe and several other things. For us, the insane shortage of basic staples (like glue and duct tape) and an ongoing gas blight, didn't really move the fun needle.

 
Oh yeah, duct tape was one of the first things we re-added :smile-new: Along with the old glue recipe and several other things. For us, the insane shortage of basic staples (like glue and duct tape) and an ongoing gas blight, didn't really move the fun needle.
Click to expand...
I agree there should be a duct tape recipe. I was hoping I could use it once I got chemistry skill up enough to run glue recipe in chemstation. Disturbing that it doesn't exist. What is the "old glue recipe" that you mentioned and how does it differ from the chemstation glue recipe?

why do you need more gas? Isn't oil-shale sufficient to refine gas?

 
What is the "old glue recipe" that you mentioned and how does it differ from the chemstation glue recipe?
Click to expand...
I think he mentioned he added back some recipes from vanilla game.

In vanilla glue was made from bones and murky water. In real life to weld glue is not difficult, you needn't be a master 75 lvl to do it.

 
Dead is dead?

Is there any way to turn off this mechanic? I do pretty good during the day, but at night the zombies just wander into my base breaking things and eventually find me. I am dying like twice a night and I can't increase my wellness whatsoever because I can't find anything that does it more that .1 at a time.

 
Hello

Anyone know if there is any True survival server up and running? Preferably with spiders settings or harder.

Thank you in advance =)

/Flanders

 
The mod to me was designed for PvE. It's rock hard from the start, and encourages teamwork with all the different professions,(Albeit only a few are really worth taking).
That's a +1 anyway
Click to expand...
Hey Bov, I'm up for a new adventure, count me in.

Lopezien

 
I agree there should be a duct tape recipe. I was hoping I could use it once I got chemistry skill up enough to run glue recipe in chemstation. Disturbing that it doesn't exist. What is the "old glue recipe" that you mentioned and how does it differ from the chemstation glue recipe?
why do you need more gas? Isn't oil-shale sufficient to refine gas?
Click to expand...
I added a glue recipe requiring femur+bottled water.

As for the gas, the gasCan and Refinery perks required engineeringCraft level 40. And while the screwdriver perk unlocks at level 10, it's made in the blast furnace - which doesn't unlock until level 55. So, in order to get gas, you need to break down cars, which means that you either need to be a mechanic (with the 600 quality screwdriver) or use low quality looted screwdrivers (which are fairly rare). And when you do harvest a car, you're lucky to get 10 gas per car - and often none. The end result is that a group will often loot an area clean, but not have enough gas to move to another area (unless you want to make 30 trips by foot). In the early game, gas = exploration and exploration is fun.

In our opinion, challenge should come from getting resources and making it back alive; not getting to where resources should be and finding that they're not there.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hey Bov, I'm up for a new adventure, count me in.
Lopezien
Click to expand...
That's great, Lope. It was definitely more fun on server than SP. Which is what I came from, ironically.

Someone else has asked too, so four isn't a bad start. I'm interested in the changes/fixes before getting one set up though. I've already edited the RWGmixer to make it more "friendly" shall we say. Let hills and bigger towns essentially.

Lets keep it going.

 
That's great, Lope. It was definitely more fun on server than SP. Which is what I came from, ironically.
Someone else has asked too, so four isn't a bad start. I'm interested in the changes/fixes before getting one set up though. I've already edited the RWGmixer to make it more "friendly" shall we say. Let hills and bigger towns essentially.

Lets keep it going.
Click to expand...
One more here - Sizemoe

 
Sweet.

It won't let me order a server on myblackboxhostingg. Is that the best option or are there better sites?

Edit. can purchase but I'd still like people's opinions of best rented server.

Also, has anyone got the capabilities to put the seed nursery back in? I can just lower the craft time but crafting it in backpack seems unnecessary when that mechanic was in on an earlier release.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Is there any way to turn off this mechanic? I do pretty good during the day, but at night the zombies just wander into my base breaking things and eventually find me. I am dying like twice a night and I can't increase my wellness whatsoever because I can't find anything that does it more that .1 at a time.
Click to expand...
Someone offered a solution a few pages ago.

 
I copy/pasted the vanilla RWG mixer into TS because I couldn't stand the terrain code in True Survival (sorry Clockwork) and I missed pine forests. So far things seem to be working fine but I'm unsure if this is going to hurt the balance at all, obviously there is more water but I don't see that as game breaking.

Anyone know of any problems I'm going to run into with this change?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Please tell me about upgrading the Chicken Coop.I have eggs and chicks, but I can not upgrade. :upset:
Click to expand...
Currently broken. I tested the upgraded models in creative and they all work but the initial coup you craft doesnt have any interaction.

 
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