THIS is the Wedge Tip Replacement in A19!

I have a tested & confirmed way to still drop zombies, if that's your style.  I have a picture showing the design (4 ramp blocks & 4 pyramid blocks).  The 5 minute video gives a quick walk-through on how to build it (along with a special visit by a zombie bear, lol), and it also shows a completely safe passive base design.  It's a design I've had for quite a while & still works in A19.  

 

[Bubbahotetp]

Gotta say, Bubba, your reply doesn't actually have much to do with mine. 

I'm talking about building a base and fighting the horde. 

If you want to turn off zombies or the horde, you have that option, and that's fine.

What I'm complaining about is them continually destroying build elements. If the Pimps are just going to change the way building works over and over to nerf the overachievers, then it's just going to continue to punish those of us *who actually want to fight the horde* without building a kill corridor and having traps do it for us.

I must have misunderstood.

Sure, fighting the horde can be fun, but you can have fun in different ways.

I'm probably far too nerdy about this game by now because I feel loss at the possiblity that bunker building has become a very explicit thing only possible below very high mountains (which don't even occur on every map). Building a base on a high tower and not having to defend it because it's too high up is gone too. Zds swim faster than the player and spawn both on dry land and on the strip that's beyond the water in the radiation zone, so underwater bases are a no go now. They can fall from the sky and only take a fraction of damage so fall bases in order to kill them are almost rediculous now. It feels like TFP have spent more time nerfing what the player can do rather than spending time on what the game can do for the player. Like there is only one single vision of how things are supposed to work and that's it - everybody has to conform or quit playing! That is way not OK. The fun is in the freedom of being able to do things how ever which way, to build where ever you want, however you want!! I want to build towers I don't have to defend!  I want to build underwater tunnels and bases that don't risk getting busted! I want to build bunkers like it's the last day on earth! But no. All of that is not in TFPs vision. You have to build a tower structure with an iron bar rim around, that's the only thing you're supposed to do! Everything else is cheesing or cheating and you have to desist immediately! Creativity is not appreciated and freedom is frowned upon. I don't want to build Joels medieval tower in every single game! When are you devs getting that?! I want to do something widely different every single time, that's what keeps me interested! But you keep cutting my options of doing so with every single update - just because reasons. It's bs!

If I play Horde night is off because that is my problem now! If I want some freedom in the game I have to actually turn off what the game is named after in order to get some amusment beyond what I've done 1000 times already. The game had way more potential back in a16 than it has now! All that has been "added" with every subsequent version is gimmicks and player restrictions, and even the most fanatic yea-sayers can only agree. If not, prove me otherwise! Game mechanics wise we've had more restrictions put on our player creativity than TFP have put into actually expanding their universe. It's a tragedy! TFP need to wake up and smell the... Carcass!

 

[Boidster]

If not, prove me otherwise!

Prove what exactly? Plenty of people use non-tower-with-railing bases. People have success with underground bunkers. People make AFK horde bases, people play run-and-gun, people do slapdash POI retrofits for BMH and then move on. People play without traders, with extra zombies, with no zombies, 100% wasteland or desert. Modlets, overhauls, community POI packs. If you have exhausted all of those options and none of them are any fun any more, isn't it time to move on? The game gave you 4500 (!) hours of something approximating fun. Lots of us are still on that journey, exploring different ways to keep having fun. Maybe your journey is over. Don't need to be mad, just divert your energy elsewhere.

 

[Bubbahotetp]

Pretty sure the cheese bases they fix is to ensure the players actually have to fight the horde. Having zombies infinitely fall down a tiny hole isn't fighting unless you choose to pull the trigger. Zero risk to you or your base. They haven't destroyed any base elements; they are making it to where people can build bases they like without breaking the AI so they never touch a base or player. Don't get it twisted  And I wouldn't be too hasty to say they didn't know about this already.

But who'se choice is that? If I want them to fall through a tiny hole because I can - who can say I'm not allowed? I bet you have a car. What if someone told you - yes you have a car, you paid for it. But you can only drive 1 mile a day with it! Because reasons! It's bs. Freedom is what we're after and what makes this game special (or rather DID make it special, because now only bs is left!), and that freedom has been shrinking for no good reason with every update.

To let you in on a little secret though - you don't have to worry that those who want to catch rats run out of cheese. I'm not going to say how and what, but I've only today found ways to cheese with some of the most elemental building blocks in the entire game, just because I wanted to reassure myself that what ever TFP have in mind, I won't get railroaded into their way of thinking just because they don't like me to. FREEDOM!!!

 

[FileMachete]

@Bubbahotetp , there's a part of this I definately agree with. I too had more 'fun' on horde nights in A16 than since. Though that could well be that I challenged myself to minimize Trap kills, but that was only doable, imo, because it was possible for a player to somewhat match zombie block damage with repairs. Just my .02 cents but I think the multiplying damage boost of multiple zeds hitting the same block is at the core of things.

That resulted in straight up melee defended bases, the old simple square 'pole' defense, using clubs or machetes, just not being viable anymore.

So we are where we are, and as I've posted before, to me the big issue is that there's such a narrow distance between a base failing or being OP'd. Without some 'give' or room for error in a base then it seems lots of folks wind up with just a couple metas, and that does limit creativity.

Someone suggested (sry, can't recall who it was) in another similar thread to lower zombie block damage. And that's a good suggestion. Sadly, some part of me is very resisitant to that idea, so I haven't tried it. But I should, I really should..

I hope this isn't offensive as it's not intended to be: maybe try some new base design things in a creative world, wire things up so you have fine grained control over the traps. Like in the base I posted pics on, I have gross On/Off for all the Dart Traps, all the fences & the shotgun turrets. I could re-wire things to control individual rows of traps, so zeds could readily get to the poles between me and them. Then I could swing away!, for however long & then fire some traps up to catch up on repairs. Just a thought, and like I said, I do think I get what you're saying

heh to your last bit, "FREEDOM!" indeed!

 

[Bubbahotetp]

Prove what exactly? Plenty of people use non-tower-with-railing bases. People have success with underground bunkers. People make AFK horde bases, people play run-and-gun, people do slapdash POI retrofits for BMH and then move on. People play without traders, with extra zombies, with no zombies, 100% wasteland or desert. Modlets, overhauls, community POI packs. If you have exhausted all of those options and none of them are any fun any more, isn't it time to move on? The game gave you 4500 (!) hours of something approximating fun. Lots of us are still on that journey, exploring different ways to keep having fun. Maybe your journey is over. Don't need to be mad, just divert your energy elsewhere.

Good one. My journey is over then, because the devs chose the path of less potential. Rather sad though, because I was ready to put another 4500h into it! Only problem is that that doesn't pay their bills because I've paid for the game once in 1856 and there is no way for old school players to matter anymore, unless the devs actively chose to listen to some expert gamer's advice. Yes, there are many gamers out there who know better how the game actually plays out long run than TFP do, even though they created the game.

 

[Jugginator]

Sheesh. Such fervor you have there. This is a game created by a group of people, this has nothing to do with freedom. They want you to defend your base, if they attack your base / try to make it collapse that's fine. AI breaks that cause infinite looping of zombies being dumb to the point where they do nothing to destroy you and your base, that's not fine according to what the game is designed to do. That's all. 

 

[Feycat]

Sheesh. Such fervor you have there. This is a game created by a group of people, this has nothing to do with freedom. They want you to defend your base, if they attack your base / try to make it collapse that's fine. AI breaks that cause infinite looping of zombies being dumb to the point where they do nothing to destroy you and your base, that's not fine according to what the game is designed to do. That's all. 

Except my base DIDN'T do that. It used a pair of wedge tip walkways, yes, but that was basically just so we could get out of grabbing range.  We got hit with vomit, with vultures, destroyers blew up pieces of our base, we had to repair post-BMH every time. 

Much like the same old solid-bottom wire-overhang base, but more fun because we could at least semi control what direction they came in.

What I DON'T want to do is a kill corridor wired up with a thousand dart traps that auto-kills all the zombies for me. 

So by taking away the functionality of zombies sliding off of tips, they haven't JUST gotten rid of an "exploit/afk" base. Frankly, they've left AFK meat grinder bases perfectly intact the whole life of the game, while still insisting they want us to FIGHT the horde. Well, I want to fight the Horde. Without a kill corridor electric maze. And it's aggravating that they continue to nerf build elements that didn't *have* to be an exploit. 

There's 2 bases that always work. Solid-bottom tower with a ring around it, and the trapped kill corridor. All they do when they continue to patch out building elements is continually drive us back to those same 2 bases over and over.

 

[Bubbahotetp]

@Bubbahotetp , there's a part of this I definately agree with. I too had more 'fun' on horde nights in A16 than since. Though that could well be that I challenged myself to minimize Trap kills, but that was only doable, imo, because it was possible for a player to somewhat match zombie block damage with repairs. Just my .02 cents but I think the multiplying damage boost of multiple zeds hitting the same block is at the core of things.

That resulted in straight up melee defended bases, the old simple square 'pole' defense, using clubs or machetes, just not being viable anymore.

So we are where we are, and as I've posted before, to me the big issue is that there's such a narrow distance between a base failing or being OP'd. Without some 'give' or room for error in a base then it seems lots of folks wind up with just a couple metas, and that does limit creativity.

Someone suggested (sry, can't recall who it was) in another similar thread to lower zombie block damage. And that's a good suggestion. Sadly, some part of me is very resisitant to that idea, so I haven't tried it. But I should, I really should..

I hope this isn't offensive as it's not intended to be: maybe try some new base design things in a creative world, wire things up so you have fine grained control over the traps. Like in the base I posted pics on, I have gross On/Off for all the Dart Traps, all the fences & the shotgun turrets. I could re-wire things to control individual rows of traps, so zeds could readily get to the poles between me and them. Then I could swing away!, for however long & then fire some traps up to catch up on repairs. Just a thought, and like I said, I do think I get what you're saying

heh to your last bit, "FREEDOM!" indeed!

Ha! Fun if you got that!

Yeah I have a base design for HN that works in a19 where I can go melee and be pretty relaxed. Yes it followes conventions but it's boring (non cheesing btw). Still, I'm that kind of person who has done it a gazillion times before and I just don't need to repeat that over and over and over again for every single implementation of the game. It get's old. Horde night is in some way the most boring part of the game, especially if you actually have to play it. What TFP and moderators don't seem to understand is that it can actually be fun to find ways to AVOID horde night alltogether, but they don't see that AT ALL. And now we've gone to a stage where that is totally impossible and not viable so I have to actually go to the options and turn it off, if I don't want to go to one of the ways I proved today that still work for cheesing. Why do I need cheesing you may wonder? If I want to play on serves with friends, but don't want to have to do HN, that's when I have to cheese. I can also just log off during HN. Maybe while they're at it they should come up with a way to prevent that. Like if you log off on a horde day your character gets erased. That would be sooo TFP. Yaay! Looking forward to that one. Maybe ban players that log off while we're at it - for life, if possible. Get our accounts on Steam erased while you're at it. Actually no... send the police! Full SWAT gear ganking for "cheating". Death penalty on the spot real Judge Dredd style, just *boom* to the temple - problem solved! F* cheater!

No I'm not irritated at all. This trend has been going on for far too long (years and years). Since TFP don't actually do long term quality control but only do short term bank account control this is what we get.

 

[FileMachete]

Yeah @Bubbahotetp , I get what you and @Feycat are saying. I'm definately pro chaos aka freedom in games. And it'll never be any skin off my nose if someone wants to bunker way deep down and not have zombies dig to them.

Hell, if I could snap my fingers I'd add in really ornery zombie chickens and zombie chimps & apes. Chickens could get in past poles/half/quarter-blocks, simians could climb and rip up wiring or exposed turrets, that kinda thing. And that'd be a building challenge that I'd relish! :biggrin1:

Edit: ohh, and add in little purse dogs, the really annoying ones. but only if they added in a 'kick' attack so we could boot the little monsters 20 yards

 

[Jugginator]

To not make books out of quotes, I get that Fey but the wedge tip base was purely for breaking the AI into infinite looping of up the stairs... fall down the wedges... run up the stairs.. fall down the wedges... that's what you said this replaces. 

 

[Feycat]

To not make books out of quotes, I get that Fey but the wedge tip base was purely for breaking the AI into infinite looping of up the stairs... fall down the wedges... run up the stairs.. fall down the wedges... that's what you said this replaces. 

I mean, sure? But it also made perfect sense. Zombies shouldn't be able to scale or balance on a steep tip. If you can find a way to lure zombies onto the edge of something where they can't get are you without serious effort, it makes sense. Because zombies aren't smart. 

Now I have to torture this dumb configuration of ramps and pyramids to do the same thing, except really without getting any active defense. Or a closed kill tunnel. Or the square tower with the ring around it. And zombies DO still waterfall over stairs. It's the same dumb thing now. They'll never NOT waterfall over stairs, because they want to reach us and we stand out of reach.

If the AI is the problem, fix the AI. 

 

[Boidster]

If the AI is the problem, fix the AI.

Um..they did. The AI is now smart enough to walk on the same blocks you can walk on.

 

[Hollowprime]

I actually never really managed to use wedges in my base. I find them very boring because I'm a melee type character, so I need plate blocks instead of wedge blocks.

This changed might have ruined the gameplay for some people but I'm pretty sure it wasn't that horrible. I mean, you still can place plates with water and slow down zombies on corridors right? Or did they change that as well ?

 

[Ttocs]

 As such, in my last A18 run, I just abandoned building any sort of horde base. Instead I find a sturdy POI that I can make a few adjustments in a quick amount of time to serve as the horde defense base of the week. We still spray bullets like they are going out of style but we don't have to repair the damage and can be free of burden for the next 7 days till the process repeats. Next 7 days, find a new POI!


Also, I don't build bases anymore. I just take over interesting POI's and bend them to my will over time. They only have a single purpose and that is to be a place to keep my stuff. 

To be clear, horde nights are still one of the more fun aspects of the game for me as it is a pure shooting gallery (who doesn't love shooting zombies?) so I'm willing to put in the work to have bullets. I'm just not into the MASSIVE amount of base repair and time it currently requires. Also, I don't like cheesy tactics like OP presented, jump bases, or stuff of that nature.

Same here man gave up having a combined base in a17. My main base now is just a POI revamped to look nice, only traps are dart traps above 2 doors on pressure plate so i can burn as much as i want and screamers all die. 

Taking over POI for horde also, fire station is great go roof take out 2x bulletproof window and watch as they fumble around inside, if im in trouble for ammo i remove ways up and go chill up a skyscraper. I kind of miss having combined base, it gave me more of a reason to fight otherwise theyd get to my stuff but this way no risk if POI falls its hop off and to a nearby prepared one(basic). I know people said this alot but a16 was kind of the sweetspot for me, nice perimeter zombies from all sides not queing up like wtf. So wish they had found a way to expand on THAT when the a16-17 transition (hell just adding demolishers, spitters and some more to that would have been nice) 

I mean i still enjoy the game and i think next play ill do a horde base but turn block dmg to 75% on horde. The last horde base i had in a17 they were ripping through forged steel walls fairly easily and it wasnt worth the time.

 

[NBornkilla]

base work i also did it where the main base would not be on the ground 

 

[Feycat]

Um..they did. The AI is now smart enough to walk on the same blocks you can walk on.

If the AI is still waterfalling over stairs, no they didn't. Changing the block hitbox didn't fix the main problem. 

 

[diegodgo87]

Me and my friends start playing very recently, in A18.4 our first base was quite safe in first horde, by second one we all died, by 3rd we build wedge tip but demolishers destroy the entire base and we end up dying again, just at 4th horde we build with concrete and we didn't die. but wasn't fun so we decided not to build that again.

Last weekend during Streamers release we started a new world just for the weekend, we made a corridor with few hatches in the floor and we shoot from the back, two hordes, two deaths. Demos suddenly appear in second horde and everything fall apart.

We don't care about dying, we don't care about rebuild, we are looking for emotion, adrenaline an lots of laughs; if you don't have that you should look for another game.

 

[Rashnudamz]

Only way to fix this on-going argument is simple, have an option for zombie AI.

Classic zombie:  If within eyesight, they will be attracted towards you but cannot jump/climb up blocks and attacks random blocks to get to you [not the weakest point].
Evolved zombie:  Zombies are now smarter and are able to navigate their ways around/over any block that players can navigate.

 

[Ttocs]

If the AI is still waterfalling over stairs, no they didn't. Changing the block hitbox didn't fix the main problem. 

Just watched new JaWoodle vid, wedges still work! just need half blocks on top to funnel them in.

 

[Feycat]

Me and my friends start playing very recently, in A18.4 our first base was quite safe in first horde, by second one we all died, by 3rd we build wedge tip but demolishers destroy the entire base and we end up dying again, just at 4th horde we build with concrete and we didn't die. but wasn't fun so we decided not to build that again.

Last weekend during Streamers release we started a new world just for the weekend, we made a corridor with few hatches in the floor and we shoot from the back, two hordes, two deaths. Demos suddenly appear in second horde and everything fall apart.

We don't care about dying, we don't care about rebuild, we are looking for emotion, adrenaline an lots of laughs; if you don't have that you should look for another game.

There is a base that always works. It always had. Started playing in A9 and it has always worked. And I doubt it would be possible to "patch it out" if they wanted to, because it's zero exploits, zero AI work, none of that.

A solid-bottom square base, ring of bars around the outside to shoot down on, and we added some sort of roof over head for vultures after they got rid of bees. Not as sure about a vulture design specifically now that they break blocks. A 1-deep moat all around the outside, three wide and full of spikes. 

But as long as the base is solid-I mean solid, 100% filled in and at least 5 x 5, the zombies will never break it. They can't get in. You can't fall. As long as at least your outer 2 layers are steel, demolishers can't destroy a significant amount. Add remote pillboxes for turrets around the perimeter if you want to. This base won't fall, won't cheese the zombies, and you won't die. You just walk around the iron bars, shooting. 

Like I said, this is a base that ALWAYS worked. You're here for new exciting laughs because, as you said, you JUST started playing. People who've been here for a long time enjoy a variety of things, because we're all long past that virgin excitement.