PC This is the kind of point of view that makes me go facepalm about some reviewers.

[Matt115]

19 minutes ago, Ray Garraty said:

Well he have right about boats but rest? No. 

NPC to hire are not neccesary. This is not State of Decye - if i wanted to worry about NPC i would play in diffrent game.

But the most funny thing - this guys want new traps - well this good idea but... then he show game looking like made by using free zombie models.. Trenbuches,  spike walls like from orc must die don't into "quasi-realistic" artstyle. If he suggested - razor barbed wire, minimum metal mines. "pen" mines. fire mines,  rebar spikes etc.

 

[RipClaw]

But the most funny thing - this guys want new traps - well this good idea but... then he show game looking like made by using free zombie models.. Trenbuches,  spike walls like from orc must die don't into "quasi-realistic" artstyle. If he suggested - razor barbed wire, minimum metal mines. "pen" mines. fire mines,  rebar spikes etc.

The game he uses as an example is called "Night of the Dead". There are numerous videos on Youtube and streams on Twitch if you want to take a closer look.

 

[Matt115]

The game he uses as an example is called "Night of the Dead". There are numerous videos on Youtube and streams on Twitch if you want to take a closer look.

Yes i checked this game. then i saw this:





Every model diffrent style and this game looks like Nexus zombie with better graphic.

So if wanted give example about traps - this traps should suit to game too. Traps on his video could be in medieval game for sure- this spike wall or rolling spike. But in modern quasi realistic game? nope. 

So - don't tread 7DTD like cod vanguard when there put everything and now looks like asian F2P PVP FPS

 

[Roland]

Still doesn't mean I think that my sudden inability to boil water but can drink it through a magical filter is a good choice.

Just to clarify…

You can and will still need to boil water. You will find murky water and if you have a pot you will want to boil it into good water. You can also drink directly from streams and lakes without a filter so streams and lakes are not worthless. The dew collectors are great. I know that’s just my opinion but I’ve started over a few times now and they haven’t lost their charm nor will they as far as I can tell. Just like developing any farm that generates stuff for you, a dew collectors farm just feels good to create. 
 

I’m first to admit that at first it felt strange to not be able to gather water from a source into containers and bring it all back to the base to boil. But…I can also state that with no jars in the game you soon forget about it and accept it as the reality of the game. I know I can drink straight from a stream and that I can’t gather it. I don’t think about it any more. 
 

The loot tables have been adjusted quite a bit. I am much more often than not crafting things well before I can find a better version. That includes weapons and tools that require loot-only parts. 
 

I just did a 50% loot test run to see how it affected things and it is super tough. 
 

My next test run will be with xp point jacked up so I can progress faster and get to the point that purple gear starts showing up to see if they are invalidating crafting like many feel they do. 
 

The changes are quite simply a lot of fun. Whether they needed to be done or not is a matter of opinion but Inreally enjoy the magazines for professing crafting and the skill points for progressing perks and the water farming game is great. 
 

It’s The Fun Pimps. They just pimped the game with some more fun. 
 

Roland, you don't get it and you likely never will.

Thank you for your feedback. Here at TFP, we appreciate your point of view and hope that you will experience a high level of entertainment value with our products. Have a nice day. 

 

[theFlu]

Moisture farms... why do I feel a sudden urge to go get me some power converters..?

 

[Matt115]

The changes are quite simply a lot of fun. Whether they needed to be done or not is a matter of opinion but Inreally enjoy the magazines for professing crafting and the skill points for progressing perks and the water farming game is great. 
 

It’s The Fun Pimps. They just pimped the game with some more fun. 

Pfff - they would to pimpe the game with some fun if they allow players to capture zombie , pimpe fuel inside him and start a fire while watching how this zombie burn from inside buahahahahahahah EVIL MASTER MIND!  

Well this would be pretty edgy even for me

Thank you for your feedback. Here at TFP, we appreciate your point of view and hope that you will experience a high level of entertainment value with our products. Have a nice day. 

XD i'm just dead. this is so good. 

 

[Ray Garraty]

this guys want new traps - well this good idea

Of course it is!

For the past 5 years we haven't seen any new wired electric traps from TFP at all, which is absolutely unacceptable in terms of  the Tower Defence genre game.

I agree we don't need medieval trebuchets and ballistae, but automatic grenade turrets or flamethrowers would be nice

 

[v3tro]

So if they wanted me to be able to craft my Q1-Q5 wooden bow myself I would have to have 25 jars of water to spare to make the glue and duct tape in that recipe.

So either water surival will not be such a big issue (since you have water to spare for crafting) or crafting will have to take a backseat again, since the immediate surival needs are the more pressing matter.

So increased drop rates for glue and duct tape or lowered amounts of these items in the crafting recipes could still be needed to make the magazine/crafting and water change work out.

If I remember correctly, glue crafting recipe will be the same but instead of murky water you will need to use boiled water or just "water" as it is.

Crafting glue is not the only way to get it, you can loot it or buy from traders. 

About this number - i give example how this words can be true and in this same change nothing.

I think they will do something like time just because = let say you could find 2 parts per 2 hours in A20 so i don't think they will do something to reduce time to 2 parts per 1 hour. Well they added steel tools parts just to increase time neccesary to make this tools. So i don't believe that now they want reduce time neccesary to find stuff because they could just removed steel tool parts. 

I am not understanding why you are making your decision assuming TFP do not know what they are doing... or do you want it to be "bad" ? Not sure, can`t seem to grasp your point of view.

All your given numbers seem artificially made so you can show your point of view and in your given situations - yes, you are correct. But the problem is that you have no idea if your numbers are even remotely precise. That increased number could be 5% per perk instead of your 0.1%.. 

Not sure how you got 2 parts per hour. Sometimes I can get 15parts in 1hour while other times cant get 1 part in 10hours. RNG luck based, and if you go and loot specific gun containers you increase your chances of finding gun parts etc. 

For the past 5 years we haven't seen any new wired electric traps from TFP at all, which is absolutely unacceptable in terms of  the Tower Defence genre game.

I agree we don't need medieval trebuchets and ballistae, but automatic grenade turrets or flamethrowers would be nice

Would LOVE to have more electricity stuff, logic gates etc. Just some basics like when minecraft introduced redstone. Nothing crazy, but devs have stated multiple times that it is not their goal and will not happen. From electricity I can see some new lights and hopefully flamethrower if it comes to that. 

 

[meganoth]

Sure, but why would they then say "Perk into shotguns and you will notice more shotgun magazines and shotgun parts appearing in the world" when that sentence is directly contradicted by the numbers? Either that sentence they posted is generally true, then the numbers internally have to support that (and yours don't expect in very contrived circumstances) or that sentence is not true for the average case.

@Matt115:

I noticed just now that I have made a wrong conclusion in this argument. I was interpreting that message to mean "more shotgun parts appearing than in the previous alpha", but actually and more likely it could just mean "more shotgun parts appearing after perking into shotguns", without any reference to A20.

So, we don't have any direct indication whether parts can be found more often than in A20. The only argument about that is indirect now: That it would be neccessary for TFP to do it because their objective was to give more opportunities for the player to craft intermediate qualitiy steps of weapons and armors.

 

[Jost Amman]

@meganoth

I think you got it right the first time... what they're saying is that IF you perk into shotguns, you WILL find more shotgun parts for your shotgun crafting.

That is alongside the magazine increase on top of the normal loot tables. I don't think there's any leeway to a different interpretation there.

 

[meganoth]

@meganoth

I think you got it right the first time... what they're saying is that IF you perk into shotguns, you WILL find more shotgun parts for your shotgun crafting.

That is alongside the magazine increase on top of the normal loot tables. I don't think there's any leeway to a different interpretation there.

Yes but I was using it to compare to A20. And compared to A20 they could for example have decreased the drop rate for unperked parts so that you got the same droprate as in A20 only after you maxed out the perk. 

That way you would still see an increase in droprate of shotgun parts after perking into shotguns, but compared to A20 you would find even less parts.

 

[Jost Amman]

Yes but I was using it to compare to A20. And compared to A20 they could for example have decreased the drop rate for unperked parts so that you got the same droprate as in A20 only after you maxed out the perk. 

That way you would still see an increase in droprate of shotgun parts after perking into shotguns, but compared to A20 you would find even less parts.

Well, if they do that, it would be kind of "dumb" and counterintuitive on their part, IMO.

I don't think they'll do that since it'd compromise all the balancing they've been talking about.

 

[Matt115]

Of course it is!

For the past 5 years we haven't seen any new wired electric traps from TFP at all, which is absolutely unacceptable in terms of  the Tower Defence genre game.

I agree we don't need medieval trebuchets and ballistae, but automatic grenade turrets or flamethrowers would be nice

They tested flamethrowers but they decided to abadon this idea. Granade turrets don't suit into 7dtd. It's World war Z.  Don't watch if "something" is cool but if something have sense - razor barber wire could be just expensive and stronger barbed wire. Easy to made and it's not overpowered. Zombie number is low in 7dtd so weapons like granade turrets even if not 1 hit kill zombie would easy "rangdoll" effect - they would be better stuned that using electric traps.

I am not understanding why you are making your decision assuming TFP do not know what they are doing... or do you want it to be "bad" ? Not sure, can`t seem to grasp your point of view.

All your given numbers seem artificially made so you can show your point of view and in your given situations - yes, you are correct. But the problem is that you have no idea if your numbers are even remotely precise. That increased number could be 5% per perk instead of your 0.1%.. 

Not sure how you got 2 parts per hour. Sometimes I can get 15parts in 1hour while other times cant get 1 part in 10hours. RNG luck based, and if you go and loot specific gun containers you increase your chances of finding gun parts etc. 

Well because i always expect something bad will happened and i'm always correct just i don't know what will be the reason.

I don't remeber which alpha it was there was big problem with beaker. Not only i had this problem. They fixed this in next alpha but  for year this alpha was just unfun to me. Yes was playable but.... why to play if you can't unlock something pretty important because you can find a single part? That's why im so negative here.  Because let say - TFP would get feedback about parts and fix this in A22. But for at least halve of year it would be unfun to play. Maybe i'm too much pesemistic but if only bad things happens over and over you expect something bad...  but This doesn't mean i want to be bad

@Matt115:

I noticed just now that I have made a wrong conclusion in this argument. I was interpreting that message to mean "more shotgun parts appearing than in the previous alpha", but actually and more likely it could just mean "more shotgun parts appearing after perking into shotguns", without any reference to A20.

So, we don't have any direct indication whether parts can be found more often than in A20. The only argument about that is indirect now: That it would be neccessary for TFP to do it because their objective was to give more opportunities for the player to craft intermediate qualitiy steps of weapons and armors.

Yeah. Items in 7dtd are in "pools" - " weapon" pool, "food" pool etc. and every pool have some % to be in some types of containers. 

So even if reading magasines increase chance to get part you want still this is just % of %.  So chance to get item from "parts" pool should be increased.

Well, if they do that, it would be kind of "dumb" and counterintuitive on their part, IMO.

I don't think they'll do that since it'd compromise all the balancing they've been talking about.

Yeah but they still don't comfirmed increased chance to get item from this pool so for now we can only wait

 

[Jost Amman]

Yeah but they still don't comfirmed increased chance to get item from this pool so for now we can only wait

Oh, so THAT was what you both have been talking about?

No, it doesn't work like you say. Someone (maybe Roland or Schwanz?) said that the parts will have a separate chance ON TOP of the normal loot.

 

[Matt115]

Oh, so THAT was what you both have been talking about?

No, it doesn't work like you say. Someone (maybe Roland or Schwanz?) said that the parts will have a separate chance ON TOP of the normal loot.

Honestly i don't undestand this how this could work - because this sounds like normal loot of container ( let say chest)  + chance to get specific part as additional after "generated"  normal loot. So if this working that's way how this will be implemented? But this could solve the problem.

 

[Jost Amman]

Honestly i don't undestand this how this could work - because this sounds like normal loot of container ( let say chest)  + chance to get specific part as additional after "generated"  normal loot. So if this working that's way how this will be implemented? But this could solve the problem.

Yes, that's how I understand they explained it, I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I got it right.

 

[meganoth]

Yeah. Items in 7dtd are in "pools" - " weapon" pool, "food" pool etc. and every pool have some % to be in some types of containers. 

So even if reading magasines increase chance to get part you want

NO, reading magasines does not increase the chance. Perking increases chance.

And currently I don't care how exactly it is implemented, because that is even more speculative. There are dozens of ways how to make some item drop more often, we will find out when we read the xml in A21.

still this is just % of %.  So chance to get item from "parts" pool should be increased.

Yeah but they still don't comfirmed increased chance to get item from this pool so for now we can only wait

 

[theFlu]

So if this working that's way how this will be implemented?

I may have misunderstood your confusion, but it sounds like it's just going to do two separate rolls per (suitable) loot container. First a roll for the normal loot for the container, and then a separate one for extra weapon parts as per your skills. Maybe a separate one for each weapon type in case you've specced into multiple, maybe not. In any case, you would never see it happening, just that parts start appearing more when specced.

That said; unless someone in the know is specifically explaining the implementation details, preferably in a linkable format, I wouldn't read much into speculation about the actual mechanic yet. And even if such speculations were correct at the moment, it might still get changed before going public...

 

[Matt115]

I may have misunderstood your confusion, but it sounds like it's just going to do two separate rolls per (suitable) loot container. First a roll for the normal loot for the container, and then a separate one for extra weapon parts as per your skills. Maybe a separate one for each weapon type in case you've specced into multiple, maybe not. In any case, you would never see it happening, just that parts start appearing more when specced.

That said; unless someone in the know is specifically explaining the implementation details, preferably in a linkable format, I wouldn't read much into speculation about the actual mechanic yet. And even if such speculations were correct at the moment, it might still get changed before going public...

If this would be working that way this would have sense. But there would be % of chance to get "parts" roll because not every container have guaranted parts.... i hope this will do this good

 

[BFT2020]

Or it could just be a simple boost on parts if you are lucky to get them on the loot table, like they handle the treasure hunting perk or the bonus harvest on plants with Living off the Land

            <passive_effect name="LootQuantity" operation="perc_add" level="1,2,3" value=".1,.3" tags="buriedTreasure"/>




Thing is, everything is simple speculation at this point.  We won't know until we get our hands on A21 and it may change even after that.