wastelandstoic
New member
Amen.
PC This game has really lost a lot of the fun.
- Thread starter WhamyKaBlamy
- Start date
Feycat
New member
Personally, this is the first alpha that's really felt grindy to me, to the point where it's wearing down my play.
I used to spend days in tunnels just scooping up resources, but the fact that zombies dig and I have to go out and kill/quest makes it feel like wasting time now.
The gas situation really sucks the fun out for me. Spending days mining oil shale so I can use my vehicles (which are my favorite thing they've ever added to the game) is super annoying. And again, it feels like it's sucking the air out of the game because killing/questing/looting is the game now.
We've simplified the base design we've been using since like A9 which was basically different versions of a walled/filled in bottom floor of a house with a series of pits and shooter towers to a kill corridor because steel is a necessity if you don't want to completely rebuild your base every time a destructor wanders in.
Basically, riding around to buildings either to quest or just kill/loot is the fun part of the game now. That and horde night. But it feels like the material grind is SO much more of a barrier to enjoying the game in this alpha than it had been previously. Before it was no big deal to have on person whose full time job was crafting/mining/farming/updating the base, a pair of guys out killing and looting, someone exploring the map and hunting, etc.
Now the game feels much more like a tunnel/chute and the need for excessive materials is a chore. If I'm not out doing stuff, it feels like an obstacle, which makes me sad. I used to really enjoy mining, getting out into the world at my own pace, hunting trips, etc. Now it's all about forcing myself to churn out materials just so I can go out.
I used to spend days in tunnels just scooping up resources, but the fact that zombies dig and I have to go out and kill/quest makes it feel like wasting time now.
The gas situation really sucks the fun out for me. Spending days mining oil shale so I can use my vehicles (which are my favorite thing they've ever added to the game) is super annoying. And again, it feels like it's sucking the air out of the game because killing/questing/looting is the game now.
We've simplified the base design we've been using since like A9 which was basically different versions of a walled/filled in bottom floor of a house with a series of pits and shooter towers to a kill corridor because steel is a necessity if you don't want to completely rebuild your base every time a destructor wanders in.
Basically, riding around to buildings either to quest or just kill/loot is the fun part of the game now. That and horde night. But it feels like the material grind is SO much more of a barrier to enjoying the game in this alpha than it had been previously. Before it was no big deal to have on person whose full time job was crafting/mining/farming/updating the base, a pair of guys out killing and looting, someone exploring the map and hunting, etc.
Now the game feels much more like a tunnel/chute and the need for excessive materials is a chore. If I'm not out doing stuff, it feels like an obstacle, which makes me sad. I used to really enjoy mining, getting out into the world at my own pace, hunting trips, etc. Now it's all about forcing myself to churn out materials just so I can go out.
Liesel Weppen
New member
Basically we are still playing like this. We just switch and do stuff together, because building/repairing base as fulltime job becomes super boring.
Anyway some of us prefer building, other ones questing/looting, so each of course prefers doing what he likes.
I can't say grind became worse. Sometimes one or more people dig for iron, nitrate, stone, oilshade and so on, sure, but the amount didn't really change... since A15. Don't know how it was in A9.
So i really don't get your problem here.
How did you fuel your vehicles in earlier versions? Was there no need to mine oilshade if you need a lot of fuel?
BobTheBard
New member
Not really. The A18 changes to gasoline greatly benefited gas-powered tools but severely hurt vehicles - In effect, vehicles now use ten times as much gas as they used to, but the drop rate of gas from wrenching cars wasn't increased that much. Used to be you could get all the gas you'd ever need by wrenching cars, and you largely still can, but if you intend to make a lot of use of vehicles you actually need to mine oilshale now because of how much vehicles consume.
Ghostlight
New member
I was a huge advocate of mining surface boulders. I loved it as a pass time, as it was fun and had you exploring all over the map and going places that otherwise would never have been visited and discovering POIs that otherwise would have remained hidden forever on big maps. There has been no one as vocal as me about my annoyance of the removal of surface boulder mining and replacing it with these surface nodes that then force you to dig actual mines. BORING. How the hell can mining down a hole all day, probably never encountering a single zombie, be a substitute for surface boulder mining?
It cant.
It's garbage.
BUT, I have to concede, there is one positive it has going for it....after a solid day's mining with the new system, you come home with a HUGE amount of resource. Much more than surface boulders could ever produce. A spectacular amount. Not only that but you probably just scratched the surface of your mine so it's still waiting for you for the next session. So yes new mining is UNFUN as all hell, but My God it is EFFICIENT. I'm coming round to the change, believe it or not, and as a result my FUN factor dropped, but so did the (mining) grind.
And as for Gas. I mined Oil Shale for only a half day and had enough not only to produce 500 Oil for Lanterns, Molotovs and Blade Traps, but I also produced 80,000 Gas. That is going to last us for weeks, and we Gyrocoper everywhere!
Just ensure someone in your group has 5/5 Mother Lode and 5/5 Miner69er, and has a Steel pick with the best mods (Iron and Stone Busters) and the grind will soon disappear.
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I prefer the earlier versions of the game when you could build anything, as long as you had the resources to do so. Now the game is a heavy grindfest to build even the most basic of items because of EXP/Schematic/Points pharming.
Multiplayer was more noticeable back then as there was no grind it was just a fun crafting game, but they added things that didn't need to be added and introduced unnecessary restrictions in the game.
Multiplayer was more noticeable back then as there was no grind it was just a fun crafting game, but they added things that didn't need to be added and introduced unnecessary restrictions in the game.
BobTheBard
New member
I don't actually mind that particular change. It's a good buff to chainsaws and augers, since now you can actually mine with an auger or cut down trees with a chainsaw without going through incalculable amounts of gas that would have been better spent on driving. There's still plenty of gas for driving, but one oil shale deposit should cover you for a good while.
Ghostlight
New member
Well the change for me is a great big node on the surface telling me where to start. That's a major improvement.
Feycat
New member
There were gravel patches before.
I like having the nodes on top because you can just make your way through the world either looking for a base or on the way to/from somewhere and scoop up a bunch of resources on the fly. That's the only time resource gathering doesn't feel like an obstacle these days.
Jugginator
Moderator
Ladies and gentlemen, we got 'er.
BobTheBard
New member
Break out the torches and pitchforks lads! We're gonna have ourselves a burnin'!
Ghostlight
New member
Not my pushbike he won't.
Pichii
New member
I'm sure there's been tons of posts like this in the past, but I feel like I have to add my voice to the feedback. I've played the game since alpha 2-point-something (before it went over to steam), and what's made me want to write this out is it was more fun then than it is now.
Before all of the cool things that were introduced and the new mechanics and all that jazz, it was more fun to be dropped somewhere randomly in the Navzone, frantically try to get yourself together some resources and build up a base for the night. The main reason for that, in my eyes at least, was that I had something to do the whole time. If I died it was while I was running from zombies, or I didn't get to a house in time, or I didn't defend it well enough, but the thing is I could fight and defend at night even as a freshly spawned player. Even if I was out at night and got caught out, I could potentially throw out some light sources and fight the zombies. Yes, they came at me constantly, but that was the fun - building ways to deal with that constant onslaught of zombies, exending my light perimeter so I could work at night, having something to do the whole time.
But with the state of the game currently I spend the night basically sitting there doing nothing, because the tiniest amount of work in my makeshift base will cause zombies to turn up. And it's not like when the zombies turn up I can deal with them - if that were the case it would be great fun - but if I haven't managed to loot some awesome weapon out of pure chance then I'm boned. That was bad enough in the last 5 builds where I could at least sit there all night crafting up my tools and weapons so they got more powerful and I could at least deal with the zombies a lot more efficiently the next day. What can I do like that in the current build? Smack rocks all night and hope I don't get detected? That's boring, dull and frustrating on a whole new level.
There's the same issue when it comes to the daytime as well. In the current save I'm working on I put my first skill points into my ability to use spears and it made a sum total of crap-all difference. It still took me up to 10 smacks to the head to kill a zombie. Dropping them to the ground gave me nowhere near enough time to do a double-tap style finisher, and even if I did manage to get to them in the 3 nanoseconds before they stood up it makes no difference. Once again, unless I get lucky with some RNG, the combat is slow, boring and frustrating. Finding something to loot and having to walk backwards for 5 minutes while repeatedly stabbing zombies in the face is not fun. Why would you think it is? I've tried clubs, bows, spears, all the weapons I can make early game and it's the same. Bows are marginally better but completely hampered by the need to get feathers, so you end up with one of the other two eventually anyway.
On top of all of this we still have the same need to progress through skills to be able to make the tools to kill them more efficiently, while still needing RNG drops to get there. Want to build a forge to make iron? You'll need an iron pipe to do that! Oh, and leather for bellows, despite the fact you're literally making entire houses out of wood, and clothes out of fibers without any sort of training. Nope, you need leather, duct tape and pipes, better get out there collecting and fighting those zombies like a geriatric.
Seriously, this game needs to decide what it wants to be. Is it going for realism or arcade? If it's realism then give us an accurate way to build tools, weapons and crafting stations. I'm looking around the room that this PC is in and I have a metal ruler next to me, several screwdrivers on a shelf, 2 rolls of selotape, a pool cue and various other bits and pieces that I could easily fashion into a weapon. In 30 minutes I could sharpen that ruler into a point and tape it to the pool cue - boom, metal spear capable of piercing a zombie's skull. If you're going for realism them why can't I do cool stuff like that? Rather than finding a tin can and some paper in the entirety of a house. Really? I'm pretty sure that in most houses you'd find the stuff to be tooled up and deal with one or two zombies. Nor would said zombies be able to tear through brick walls in a few smacks.
If you're going for arcade, then why is it so long and laborious to get weapons, to kill zombies, to advance? Sure, if you're going down that route I might not be able to get a decent weapon quickly, I might be stuck with stone tools, but I should still have the option of being a bonifide badass with them.
Either way, the game feels like it's stuck in some middle ground where the challenge of the game is basically how long can you hold out before getting bored and uninstalling it. I'm fine with having to hide away from zombies that I have no chance of defeating until late game, if I have something to do until late game. Similarly I'm fine it not being realistic, having to go and loot a gabllion things and zombies to try and find good weapons and parts if I can actually kill said zombies and explore with my primitive stuff. At the moment I can do neither and it's not fun. I can't see myself playing this game again for the forseeable future, and that makes me sad because I love(d) this game.
I'm aware that a lot of the issues that I'm highlighting here are early game, and that it does get better later in the game, but I just can't bring myself to grin and bear through it at the moment. I'm at the point of starting to make electrical traps, etc, on my current main save and I just can't do any more slow, boring grinding. Sure, zombies die quicker, but the having to manage heat, still not being able to truly do things at night, still being reliant on RNG and not being caught by a horde.. on top of the frustration with starting the save it's just marred my enjoyment.
I'm sorry if anyone took offense to this, but it needed to be said in my opinion. I'm sure lots of people disagree, and that's cool. Have a fantastic day whoever reads this
100% agree.
This game does genuinely need to decide what it is it wants to do and be and stick with it then let people mod if thats what they wish.
All this back and forth just to fix the same bugs over and over or revert, progress just to go back...
Like its cool to explore new ideas and try new things but they are changing super core concepts and strategies that I flatly find to be very un-fun.
I dont want a game that nobody wants to learn because its stupid insane learning curve.
Id rather have it start hard and keep that throughout the game while adding new challenges.
This game tends to want to say, "the hardest part of the game is literally surviving first 5 days."
After that its basically a cake walk. All these ideas new things, trying new stuff is great... but it feels VERY stagnant in terms of actual development. (Since we keep reverting and jumping all over the place)
Id legitimately like to hear a mission statement from the pimps about what THEY WANT TO SEE THE GAME BECOME/FINISH AS.
Id then like for them to take feedback on that and everyone start working towards an end goal instead of just... kinda doing a bunch of random stuff that may or may not be in-line with the previously core concepts of the game.
Again, I dont mind change.
I do mind change that makes the game annoying/less fun.
Like with Zeds spawning in your PoI due to bedrolls not stopping spawns.
You cant repair concrete anyway and wood/adobe buildings are not invincible. On top of that, You can still manipulate this system by removing floors and stacking frames.
Waste of time for any Vet player and its more assinine BS a newbie has to learn to deal with. No real improvement in the game.
Like with item crafting taking literally 500 IRL hours to make 10,000 gun powder.
Like how concrete takes 24 IRL hours to make 5,000 (full process)
Even with perks, you spend alot of time just waiting around for things to finish before you can actually DO anything.
This game needs to get optimized.
Crafting needs to be reasonably quick so people can actually enjoy the game and spend less time standing in a base waiting on frames/spikes.
Early game difficulty needs to be reduced and then applied to the mid/endgame which should both become HARDER, not easier as you gain levels.
You should be able to build any object in the game that is in the game. (Like I beams are unbuildable yet still exist in the game code)
IDK. I feel like we need less new ideas and much, much more TLC on what we do have.