"The PvP Update"

[bloom_meister]

IMO that is a big part of the problem.
There is so much vertical progression in the game that it would never pass muster in a PVP game.

There is a damage factor of 5 between "no skill and crappy weapons" and "max skill and top weapons" and if you factor in armor and high wellness it's over 20.

You can tell me about "player skill" whatever you want but if I do 20x as much relative damage then I'll win that "fight".

If I was told to rebalance the game for PVP I would have to create a different balance.

• You get XP for killing zombies but not for players. You get ego points for doing the latter...
   
   
  
• All skills like Heavy Armor, Mining Tools, or Rifles go straight out the window.
  There will be no grinding skill.
   
   
  
• You can buy perks from skill points but they dont have as much punch, either. No 2x damage modifier.
  Maybe +30% is manageable.
   
   
  
• Weapons and parts retain QL but a QL 1 part does not have 40% but 66% of a QL 600 parts' stats.
  

Much less "progression" and therefore a far more level playing field but you can still do all the things you do in the vanilla (PVE) game - with the exception of watching skill numbers go up.

So here we go...

There are only 2 types of games that involve players killing other players, the first type you can think of as CoD or the BF series, these have progression but its minimal and a level 1 player can quite easily kill a level 100 player, death has zero impact or penalty and there is no 'working' on your character or skills, sometimes you get a new unlock but its no big upgrade usually.

The second type of game, and here I will use WoW as an example, has a very wide and tall progression tree where the skills and gear difference between say a level 10 and a level 100 is massive. Depending on the ruleset you may lose all your items when you die, lose experience and or time/progression. Building powerful characters in this type of game requires hard work.

7DTD started off more like the first type of game and this was because health was capped at 100 and armour did not work and therefore some level 1 could kill you with headshot from a crossbow quite easily and there was no wellness loss so dying had no penalty, pvp was therefore not very exciting because all you would lose was your crossbow/weapon and you would suffer no other penalties.

over time, as we got loot quality for weapons, armour and tools, as we got wellness increased to 200 (250 with perks) and perks to increase damage and reduce damage taken PVP changed to where it is today. Today (assuming vanilla settings) there is a noticeable difference between a player who has worked really hard to improve their health, armour and weapons and one who has not. Can the level 1 still kill you (with a bow now instead of a crossbow) ? well not easily no, but neither is it impossible for a skilled player who chooses the right time to attack. If you lose your high end weapon and perhaps your armour too (if playing drop all) then this can be a significant setback and if you die a lot then your wellness will get hammered.

For me and I think most PVP players in 7DTD we dont want the COD type gameplay, we want something where your hard work makes a difference, otherwise why invest time into the game? we want to fight for the small incremental increases in power that will, eventually, make you more of a badass.

The wonderful thing about 7DTD is its a sandbox and how YOU play PVP, right now, with the game in its current form, has consequences and if you want to bumble around picking fights you cant win (low level bow and no armour v full iron armour with a sniper rifle) then sure, you can, but the smart player picks their perks and invests their points in a way that allows them the freedom to play as they want rather than be constrained by 'hard coded' gameplay styles.

Lastly it should absolutely not be a level playing field except that everyone has the same options and choices but if I make better decisions and play longer and smarter then I should have an advantage, this is no different to anything in real life, you work hard at something and you get good at it/richer/healthier. this is how life works, don't try and channel us into some twitch playstyle because If your pvp players want that they will go play other games that are vastly better at it such as COD and BF.

 

[Roland]

@Bloom: I really wonder whether most PvPers really want what you do in regards to progression and an unequal playing field. In theory someone might say they would like the challenge of starting on a server that is already at day 100 with most others already well established but in reality people often quit a server and never return if they die enough to reduce their wellness to 70. I think you are at the hard-core end of the spectrum in this regard.

I think that there can be progression and grind to get mats but that they shouldn't be as long term and grindy as they are in the current vanilla game. Getting more resources for harvesting, and shortening the progression from low to max would be good IMO. Right now we have a lot of players reporting that they grind exclusively to get their skills up before they start engaging other players. Making it a faster journey to the point that typical players like to start actually PvPing would make the early game less of a chore before the "real playing" begins. Also new spawns could have a better chance of staying off the radar until they get up to a higher level if it doesn't take so long to get there.

TLDR: The time and effort investment for getting up to speed in terms of a base, high quality weapons/ loot, and character stats is currently too long and too grindy for mass appeal PvP.

 

[Poojam]

I agree with Bloom's posts 1000%.

I'm certain that the five other regulars that I know of would agree as well.

I completely disagree Roland. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. The current playing field gives you a force multiplier of like 20, per Gazz's numbers. It shouldn't be 0 (a level playing field) for this game. It also shouldn't be 20 at max tiers vs lvl 1 either. If you were to keep the current skills & perks, then the force multiplier of a maxxed out player should probably be on the order of 5-10. Really though, it just takes experimentation and playtesting to find the sweetspot. The force multiplier is only a competitive advantage in open dueling though. There is a variety of weapons that need to be taken into consideration. There is also time-to-kill (lethality of weapons versus health pool) for each weapon type that should be accounted for. For example, it can be dialed in to provide noobies/stealthers an award for taking on a high level and/or geared player. Make it so that there is risk again. As of right now, the juice is never even close to being worth the squeeze unless you're high enough level to engage a maxxed out player.

For example, I personally loved the fact that a well placed crossbow headshot on a geared player could possibly take them out in previous alphas. If you were that level 3 guy running around on your first day on an established server, there was nothing better than looting a nice purple rifle off some cocky guy killing noobs around 0,0. Now, maybe if you're 150+ wellness or are wearing a high level iron helmet, then that well placed xbow headshot can't kill in one hit. Fair enough. Risk/reward on both ends. It's these little things that need exploration and playtesting that have been lost in the game's current incarnation.

I reject the notion that PVP needs to be a separate play mode. This would break apart the playerbase further than it already is. If you don't want to PVP, then play on a server with a PVE ruleset. I think there is plenty of room to mathematically adjust certain skill/damage/health/armor modifiers/zombie damage/zombie health to calibrate a rewarding PVE and balanced PVP experience in the same realm.

Ultimately, each skill that rewards % armor, health, damage, and damage redux need to be ranked for effectiveness in a PVE environment and then for a PVP environment. Gazz already did the force multiplier calc for most of this already. It really just boils down that calculation to get this right, and a lot of problems people have with dueling disappear.

I wouldn't change a thing for mining/mining progression skills/perks other than chop off the bottom 150 levels of the scale. The effectiveness at the bottom is too low. Do people really find it rewarding that it takes 20 hits to remove one layer off a surface stone? Then you level a little bit and it takes 14 hits. Won't 12 hits as a starting still be okay?

As an aside, the tools do need to be dialed in a little better for durability pools/block damage/reward for resources required in order to reflect the material and time value of obtaining and running an auger>steel>iron>stone. I trust that legendary items will be added that are going to allow for 1-block hitting again. That was really what made steel worth it over iron in previous alphas. Need to find some other carryover point or bonus to reinforce that difference at each tool type imo. Some games do it with block debuffs against tool types. For example, stone tools can't really mine metal worth a crap. Or iron will dull more quickly on metal than steel. Things like that provide incentive for the time investment in progressing through the game.

But back to PVP. Sound is the supreme item that needs repairing. This does not affect PVE in the slightest either. It needs to be adjusted for each audio source to make PVP happen again. Sometime in A14 they "fixed" the sound, which meant you couldn't hear augers from 7k away anymore. Fair enough, I agree. That was probably excessive. In doing that, they also extremely shortened the sound travel distance for gunshots, tool impacts, minibikes, footsteps (regardless of running or walking), beating on things, loot sounds, farting, etc. This got nerfed so far that you often can't hear someone taking a metal door down with a pickaxe on a building just 1 city block away! As a result, the pvp experience suffered because sound was what enabled people to track down and find each other. This was rewarding. It added an element of realism. It allowed for bullies. There were risks to going out and looting stuff in a town that you knew was occupied, because it meant making noise. Making noise meant possibly alerting other survivors to your presence. You had to be on guard. Some people knew the risks, and set off to live in the boonies until they could protect themselves in a fight. Some people took the risk and loot the stores to gain the advantage. Strategies evolved around your exposure level. Now that no one can hear you unless they are standing next to you, this element has been completely neutered and the low kill counts on PVP-prevalent servers are evidence of it. Many sounds need to be dialed back up some, if possible. Gunshots, minibikes, power tools, metal tools on metal objects should be audible for say 1-to-2k. Right now they carry about 250-300m. The sound you make opening a cupboard should carry about 150m, like it does currently. Running footsteps should be audible from 500m, and maybe walking footsteps 250m. When the sound range got reduced so far, the world got a whole lot bigger.

 

[Poojam]

With regards to griefing. Land claim blocks are 10 steel. That is dirt cheap. If your base is getting demolished after they take out your claim, shame on you for only having one or two claims. Or maybe that they were visible or poorly supported.

Now I do sympathize for the noobs out there on the raiding front. It's completely discouraging (and heartbreaking the first time) to get all your loot stolen or your base wiped out after you dump a weekend into a game and log back in to find it all gone. It takes persistence that some players just can't stomach with multiple failures to figure out how to implement base designs that effectively counter other players. I think this is something that can be improved on with education though. I think the large open world leads new players into a false sense of security. The crafting, mining, and scavenging attract a lot of players to the game that are not historically "into" pvp. Which leads to a lot of raging when they discover the harsh reality that there is more to worry about than just zombies. But maybe we can use the quest system or tool tip messaging to educate players on smarter tactics for survival from players in the same way they have been devised to get players familiar with self-survival basics? Or at least alert them to the dangers of survival.

I'm just throwing out ideas, but maybe stuff like this could be included...

Quest 1 - (to quote Bloom) - "Don't put all your eggs in one basket" Tool tips that informs the player of being raided online/offline. Other survivors will steal from you if they get the chance. Play this narrative into the lore of the game!

Quest 2 - "Hide your stash" Maybe this is just a series of tool tips like "hide your stash under walls, behind cupboards, in grandma's attic...."

Quest 3 - "Stay off the beaten path" Make it simple. Inform players that you can be found and raided. Try to hide your base or devise a simple test that can be implemented within the current game framework for concealing a container or door.

Quest 4 - "Beware of strangers" Spawns a very powerful bandit that comes after you. This is where noobs learn about bag drop

Quest 5 - "♥♥♥♥ and Get" Create a quest to raid a grocery store and have it spawn zombies around you in doing so.

Quest 6 - "We need a bigger boat" You have to make concrete blocks or vault doors to pass this test.

 

[Roland]

Well you must not be completely disagreeing with me because I mostly said what you did but in a more general way. Whether the progression is made faster or we start people at a higher point in the current progression the effect is that people get up to speed faster which was my point. I like your thoughts on the how.

Whether it should or should not be a separate mode is immaterial. It will be. There isn't much point debating that issue here. Even your suggestion of lopping off the bottom portion of progression and starting higher is not going to sit well with most PvE players and that is just one simple issue. We already have PvP servers and PvE servers and if PvP servers start using the PvP mode then I don't see any further fracturing of the player base.

Really what needs to be in place are options so that servers that do want 100% level playing field can adjust how much XP is earned and where players start and end with skills and perks etc. That way it can be anything from zero penalty for dying to losing 100 hours of grinding and building for dying or anything in between.

 

[argeos]

King of the Hill variant:

- a colored pole/flag is appearing somewhere randomly on the map. Players are told via a marker on the compass where to head to.

Any player touching the pole is claiming it.

The winning player has to claim the pole long enough to win the round/game. He can build a base, and so on.

 

[JaxTeller718]

@Bloom: I really wonder whether most PvPers really want what you do in regards to progression and an unequal playing field. In theory someone might say they would like the challenge of starting on a server that is already at day 100 with most others already well established but in reality people often quit a server and never return if they die enough to reduce their wellness to 70. I think you are at the hard-core end of the spectrum in this regard.
I think that there can be progression and grind to get mats but that they shouldn't be as long term and grindy as they are in the current vanilla game. Getting more resources for harvesting, and shortening the progression from low to max would be good IMO. Right now we have a lot of players reporting that they grind exclusively to get their skills up before they start engaging other players. Making it a faster journey to the point that typical players like to start actually PvPing would make the early game less of a chore before the "real playing" begins. Also new spawns could have a better chance of staying off the radar until they get up to a higher level if it doesn't take so long to get there.

TLDR: The time and effort investment for getting up to speed in terms of a base, high quality weapons/ loot, and character stats is currently too long and too grindy for mass appeal PvP.

As someone who plays H1Z1, Conan, Rust and Ark and reads all of their reddits i can say one thing for sure. Most general PVP players (remember i said general not hardcore) HATE progression and leveling. They want to be able to log onto a server, go searching and be on fairly equal ground to those already living on the server. There is already a group of players who want leveling removed from Conan and thats a week or so old.

I agree 100 percent with what Roland said. His suggestions reflect what the general thoughts of an average PVP player want. Question is do you want to appeal to a mass PVP audience or to a hardcore niche one.

 

[Poojam]

Gazz -

Offline claim modifiers do have value and should be operable. It enables server owners to provide a higher degree of configuration that provides comfort to different playstyles and provides relief for players that are going to be offline for longer periods. Most people don't realize that they don't work... If you go through the server listing, you'll find that online/offline multipliers are rarely the same value. And if they are the same value, I would wager that the owner knows they don't work in more cases than they intentionally wanted them to be the same.

Others have commented on this, but raiding someone while they are online is fricking hard. I mean it can be next to impossible on a decent base. Since the repair rate is so high that you simply have to exhaust the defenders supplies to get in. I like the idea that server owners can specify a lower mux for online defenders. It allows for this to be optimized into a way that makes it more viable to raid someone while online.

By enabling the online/offline multipliers it also allows pve-centric characters to have a higher sense of security, which is fair in it's own right. Many servers would like to opt for something like 8x online/64x offline. I believe the intent is for server owners to be able to build more diversified communities of different types of players.

As it stands now, since the multipliers don't work, there is no advantage to raiding someone while they are online. It's far safer to wait until they log off. It's going to take you the amount of time, so why not...? If the multipliers actually worked, servers could be configured in a way that reduces that prevalence of players getting wiped out while they are offline.

There are a couple of exploitable aspects of online/offline multipliers that would need to be refined to implement this well though (after they get the darn things to work in the first place). Joint ownership affecting claim strength, ability to remove/add friends and affect claim strengths, combat logging-type situations where you could log out during a raid to protect your base. They're not difficult problems to solve. And I'm sure there are more that I'm not thinking of. But these kinks would need to be worked out.

 

[Poojam]

King of the Hill variant:
- a colored pole/flag is appearing somewhere randomly on the map. Players are told via a marker on the compass where to head to.

Any player touching the pole is claiming it.

The winning player has to claim the pole long enough to win the round/game. He can build a base, and so on.

I love any aspect of the game that introduces a reason for players to converge and fight.

- - - Updated - - -

As someone who plays H1Z1, Conan, Rust and Ark and reads all of their reddits i can say one thing for sure. Most general PVP players (remember i said general not hardcore) HATE progression and leveling. They want to be able to log onto a server, go searching and be on fairly equal ground to those already living on the server. There is already a group of players who want leveling removed from Conan and thats a week or so old.
I agree 100 percent with what Roland said. His suggestions reflect what the general thoughts of an average PVP player want. Question is do you want to appeal to a mass PVP audience or to a hardcore niche one.

"Hardcore niche one". I don't want a Rust clone. And I can assure you after reading these forums for the last two years, neither do the devs. I want a voxel based, crafting, building, survival multiplayer that rewards time invested in a logical amounts that don't upset the game balance too much.

I kind of disagree with your assessment though. I don't think pvp'ers that have stuck around on 7days want a level playing field. The game mechanics, movement, and netcode are too poor to be a great pvp game. I view pvp players that play shoot-em-ups like CS Go differently than players that play this game, Ark & Rust. The latter audience are more akin to offshoots from MMORPG's than they are round based blood bath games. Granted I've played the former competitively for years, and I'm not knocking it, but I don't want to see 7dtd turn into that. (Madmole - Stop getting ideas of copying H1Z1's king of the Hill).

 

[Pille]

Quick point here on your 'static' spawn points, I have never, in the ridiculous playtime I have, ever spawned into a player made cage or know anyone who has. I did once appear on a couple of spikes, once.

Must have been polite players only on your servers. Maybe servers from england?

The first thing I do on a PvP server is to mine the spawn points.

 

[Poojam]

Must have been polite players only on your servers. Maybe servers from england? The first thing I do on a PvP server is to mine the spawn points.

I'm ignorant of the backend limitations, so this may not be possible. But this sure seems like it could be addressed by introduction of a random number variable to operate on the spawn loc coordinates.

- - - Updated - - -

Last edited by Roland; 12 Minutes Ago at 04:04 AM. Reason: You didn't think I would let that stand did you....

Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade to get attention. Don't pretend you haven't noticed over the years.

 

[Pille]

I'm ignorant of the backend limitations, so this may not be possible. But this sure seems like it could be addressed by introduction of a random number variable to operate on the spawn loc coordinates.

Yepp, this was already suggested:

The current system of fixed spawn points leads to the problem you encountered. People will either put spikes or cages at the spawn points. The logical conclusion is to have truely random spawn points rather than a set of fixed ones.

I just wanted to emphasize that it is an important problem that needs to be fixed.

To me, the main problem is the high number of gamebreaking bugs that can be exploited. So I wonder if the time has come for PvP.

 

[Poojam]

To me, the main problem is the high number of gamebreaking bugs that can be exploited. So I wonder if the time has come for PvP.

I don't see a lot of gamebreaking bugs. Or maybe what you call a bug I don't think of as one. For example, I wouldn't call the spawn point camping a bug. It's just simple griefing or could be considered an exploit. The game is functioning as it's supposed to. It's just that some players have figured out that those points are unprotected and not random. ♥♥♥♥ thing to do.

 

[Pille]

I don't see a lot of gamebreaking bugs. Or maybe what you call a bug I don't think of as one. For example, I wouldn't call the spawn point camping a bug. It's just simple griefing or could be considered an exploit. The game is functioning as it's supposed to. It's just that some players have figured out that those points are unprotected and not random. ♥♥♥♥ thing to do.

I can give you some examples. I was talking about things like these:

- you can use the minibike to jump into underground bases

- maybe you can use it to teleport through blocks in claimed areas (can minibike frames be placed in claimed areas?)

- you can see and shoot through the terrain

But maybe these bugs are unknown to most PvP players?

 

[Roland]

I kind of disagree with your assessment though. I don't think pvp'ers that have stuck around on 7days want a level playing field. The game mechanics, movement, and netcode are too poor to be a great pvp game. I view pvp players that play shoot-em-ups like CS Go differently than players that play this game, Ark & Rust. The latter audience are more akin to offshoots from MMORPG's than they are round based blood bath games. Granted I've played the former competitively for years, and I'm not knocking it, but I don't want to see 7dtd turn into that. (Madmole - Stop getting ideas of copying H1Z1's king of the Hill).

I don't know. As I read through the thread getting the summary it seemed that for a PvP centered mode of play more people are wanting a much faster progression, easier building, and richer harvesting with a shorter vertical progression gap between new players and maxed out players. Bloom seems the most hardcore in wanting it to be a slow progression that takes lots of work and effort and to maintain a well-earned big advantage to longtime players. You say you agree with him 1000% but in reading some of your earlier posts brought over from the other thread and even your newer ones now you seem a bit more moderate in this area than he.

I'm willing to admit that my first post calling for removal of skills and perks and experience altogether was probably too draconian of a change but I think Bloom's stance is the other extreme and really is not going to appeal to the broader market of PvPers....yourself included going by some of your own writings.

 

[Gazz]

I completely disagree Roland. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. The current playing field gives you a force multiplier of like 20, per Gazz's numbers. It shouldn't be 0 (a level playing field) for this game. It also shouldn't be 20 at max tiers vs lvl 1 either. If you were to keep the current skills & perks, then the force multiplier of a maxxed out player should probably be on the order of 5-10. Really though, it just takes experimentation and playtesting to find the sweetspot.

Basically this.

Progression is a part of the game's character and it's fun. If I mentioned "tossing it all out" at some times it was more in jest and to get a reaction. =P

But it cannot stay a factor of 20. That's ridiculous.

Now that I got a small improvement to the skill cost progression code I can make the cost of high perk tiers ramp up dramatically.

Once we get some more weapon diversification going (so that a sniper rifle isn't always best) it would be okay to have a player be very good with one weapon... just not with all weapons/skills at once.

This can be a lot more lenient in PVE and the problem with that is that it has to be a very much separate mode.

Or at least completely separate "PVP skill points" that can only be used on a low number of "PVP skills".

I reject the notion that PVP needs to be a separate play mode. This would break apart the playerbase further than it already is. If you don't want to PVP, then play on a server with a PVE ruleset. I think there is plenty of room to mathematically adjust certain skill/damage/health/armor modifiers/zombie damage/zombie health to calibrate a rewarding PVE and balanced PVP experience in the same realm.
Ultimately, each skill that rewards % armor, health, damage, and damage redux need to be ranked for effectiveness in a PVE environment and then for a PVP environment. Gazz already did the force multiplier calc for most of this already. It really just boils down that calculation to get this right, and a lot of problems people have with dueling disappear.

Many "PVE" MMOs have optional PVP and it tends to take them years to "get it right"... with a much much bigger development team.

They usually have the same core problem: Massive vertical progression.

One common approach is to have completely separate "PVP items" like armor. Regular armor is purely decorative and offers 0 protection in PVP. You must acquire this armor through PVP means. In MMOs this is easier because you can have instanced arena battles. That doesn't fit into 7DTD very well and "natural" and regular PVP action is difficult with a game world of this size.

Mixing PVE+PVP on the same server has advantages but it may turn out to be a half-assed PVP mode. I dunno.

Some ideas had be thrown around in the "land claim" thread I linked way above.

If a player / clan has one land claim (that grows over time / with clan size) then we have a lot more options for making it "work well".

Complete "trader" immunity while offline is then very doable with a cooldown so you can't just log out and make your base invulnerable the second someone gets through your outer defenses.

There can even be a "PVP switch" so everyone starts with a completely invulnerable "PVE" base and noobs are automatically protected.

If someone wants to switch to Big Boy PVP mode or back, a cooldown has to run out first because it can be exploited both ways.

Then we have players/clans that are completely untouchable and cannot damage other players or claimed structures. And the others. =)

The problem with completely mixing those 2 "modes" into one is the progression inherit in the environment.

Zombies, loot, items, skill - everything is geared towards a slow and steady progression.

"Only" adjusting a few skills doesn't work because you still have a lot of gear progression and stats like HP/wellness.

And what I said about perk cost progression also doesn't work so well because in a PVE setting you will be able to pick far more perks and try more things without greatly imbalancing anything.

Just slashing the numbers to where the "PVP effects" are cut down would feel like a lot of grinding for very little effect. But it's doable in code. If (you = PVP) {player skill mod factor = 0.15};

 

[bloodmoth13]

Some great ideas there!

Im really all for the no griefing offline thing, the ONLY times my bases have ever been attacked were when i couldnt defend, thats a crappy feeling.

I do think though that there needs to be a perhaps 10 minute period before the effects kick in so insta logging wont be such a good strategy.

For PvP, there needs to be some medium range tracking ability so that you can actually track other players, the map of this game is HUGE and you could go days without seeing someone, i think one of the major issues players will face is that its too difficult to force pvp.

on a seemingly contrary note, i really hate the gameplay of stacking wooden frames 50 ft high to jump over walls, perhaps a height limit for areas near land claims would be a huge help? id love to see more open bases that dont necessarily need to rely on capped roofs to stop perps.

One different issue would be restarting after every spawn, id suggest letting players keep whatever is in their actionbar and add in a new perk that respawns you with some basic armor at low quality (half of what you could create) and clothes (just feet, chest and legs) for instance:

level 1 respawn with plant fiber clothes and a wood breastplate

level 2 respawn with cloth chest armor and some cloth clothes (just feet, chest and legs)

level 3 respawn with leather chest armor and cloth clothes

level 4 respawn with scrap chest armor and cloth clothes

etc

other than the scummy base raiding, the pvp in this game has made my pulse run like mad, the high risk high reward makes it feel amazing! though when you lose you feel like dying, it really has the highest highs and the lowest lows

 

[bloodmoth13]

Ahh, finally some useful feedback. =)

I believe that in the "Land claim" thread I (or someone else) had a concept of the claim modifier dynamically increasing as you do damage to the base.

That would encourage "surgical" raiding and protect from total devastation. In theory...

 

[Poojam]

Gazz -

Something in your last paragraph above touched on something that resonated with me. Is Player inflicted damage treated differently than zombie inflicted damage? Or can it be made to be?

If so, then a scalar could be applied to player inflicted damage such that the efficiency of armor can be dialed down without affecting the current pve balance against zombies whatsoever.

Simply doing that in conjunction with perhaps limiting the wellness pool to 175 would probably be enough to do the trick.

 

[Poojam]

Mixing PVE+PVP on the same server has advantages but it may turn out to be a half-assed PVP mode. I dunno.

Some ideas had be thrown around in the "land claim" thread I linked way above.

If a player / clan has one land claim (that grows over time / with clan size) then we have a lot more options for making it "work well".

With only one land claim allowed, the griefing problem will become much more of an issue within the game's current framework. Some servers allow griefing, which I think is a good idea since it echos reality. But I understand why others hate it. Many servers are mixed on application and some forbid it. This gets enforced with the admins. They will restore the chunk from a previous save. This takes resources that could otherwise be designed away with a more elegant system like maybe you describe, but it does work.

Having craftable land claim blocks allows the player to protect themselves from griefing without having to rely on admins. Players should be building their bases in a smart way without exposed claims. Having multiple overlapping claims also makes it difficult to zero in on their location.

However, 10 steel for one land claim is absurdly cheap which allows people to spam them. Which is pretty cheesy. I like the servers where the recipe is adjusted to require a moderate amount of resources with 1 or 2 medium-rarity items. This fixes the problem without upsetting the current design. It adds an element of progression since those items are not immediately abundant or sometimes even harvestable by noobs. That makes early game all the more exciting knowing that you need to work on getting steel asap .... or gathering something to get more claims in order to protect your investment (base).