The missed post from JaWoodle

It's disgusting how the community is handling this situation, and the worst part is that it's not surprising.

TFP made a simple mistake. That doesn't mean the youtuber can suddenly do whatever the hell he wants with 100% freedom. He knew exactly what he was doing. TFP asked him to remedy the problem. He refused to be cool and edit/remove some content that he knew wasn't intentional to be shown. If he didn't know beforehand then he certainly would have after they asked him to remove it.


For those mentioning his loss of money: How much do you think he's making from all the videos revolving around this current drama? Nah let's just ignore that. I hope it's enough to cover the bridge that he decided to burn for no reason.

Anyone with a brain will look at the reviews and know immediately that it's purely performative nonsense.

Players with hundreds if not thousands of hours posting a bad review... and they all involve the same topic. A youtuber who made a scummy decision and is facing basic legal consequences for it. People acting like TFP are evil creatures of the night for doing this are out of their minds, though a lot of it is likely artificial. It's another excuse to jump on a hate/drama train for a cheap game you've spent hundreds of hours playing. Fakest bunch of people i've ever seen in any community. You don't stand for any real logic or principles. You have no spine and want to perform like jesters in the most obvious way.

Id bet all my teeth that every single one of them will jump on the next update like a feral beast. No one is being fooled by this ridiculous crap.
 
Soulmonster said:
He could have removed the video after it was requested, bought himself some candy from the revenues of the video before it was taken down, enjoyed his fans adulation over temporarily having had proprietary information, remained on TFP's good side, preserved his partnership with TFP, and all would be good in this bestest of worlds.
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Apparently, he did offer to edit the video BUT wanted to be paid for the "removal work"... :sneaky:
 
theFlu said:
Yes. Woodle said he needed legal councel, I don't know if an actual case has been filed; but even the standard DMCA-request removal leads to court if the publisher disagrees. Don't see why this wouldn't..
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From the video I could not find an instance of where TFP threatened to send lawyers after him (unless you are talking about copyright strikes) and it seemed that he decided to lawyer up instead. Maybe I missed something.

I will say that TFP have little to gain from further actions. Removal from the program I think is justified. You are either on the "team" or you are not. If you are not in the best interest of TFP then you shouldn't have access to privileged content.

Copy striking the videos I disagree with as I think it brings more problems than it solves but even that I can at least understand.

I don't understand why anyone would lawyer up after striking the video unless he planned to re-add the video to YouTube or some other platform.


I see a lot of people trying to make this about whether he knew about it or whether it was TFP fault and not about what would be the morally justified thing to do when asked to remove the offending content. To me it would seem smart to comply with the reasonable request based on the fact they didn't want it disclosed further.
Alan Lau said:
I'm sure this is going to get buried and probably never read by the "Fun" Pimps, but the way you treated Josh for the mistake you guys made is reprehensible. I'm going to speak to you the way I think you'll hear me the loudest: I'm never buying anything TFP are involved in unless you publicly make an apology to Josh and invite him back into the creator program . You have no respect for your customers (I'm referring to the massive dumpster fire of doo doo that the 2.0 update was, and don't even get me started on the whole learning by reading magazines) and you've been promising so much for so long and adding features nobody asked for and taking away features we liked.
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I'll buy two just so TFP can ignore his post.
 
richardjrb76 said:
I understand that he missed you something and posted something on YouTube but give him a break I've watched this guy for years this got me interested into this game it made me buy it and I bought this game for other people to play with me about 20 or 30 times. If it wasn't for Jay woodle I wouldn't have got this game. He's been an inspiration and he's probably has made you guys gain revenue in 7 Days to Die more than you ever knew.
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Jawoodle has entertained me for years with those razor-edge runs that flirt with chaos and death without ever feeling frustrating.

He knows how to keep the tension humming while pushing every boundary the game allows. The Fun Pimps built a huge part of their fan base on creators like him—people who showed the world what 7 Days to Die could be.

Now they’re treating those same creators as disposable, hitting them with copyright strikes over a mistake that originated with TFP giving him the wrong alpha and kicking them from the program.

If the company won’t show loyalty to the people who brought them their audience, why should that audience stay loyal in return?

This is their Bud Light moment—alienating the very fans who made them. One bad call like this makes longtime fans wonder if the game they love is still in good hands.

The numbers haven’t tanked yet, but the trust is eroding fast in the community. When your biggest supporters start questioning whether to stick around, the math stops working. I think TFP just shot themselves in the groin, and we all watch this game we have nurtured for a decade slowly die.
 
Many things TFP has done made no sense to me. I still kept up with the game, even bought the soundtrack and 1 DLC cosmetic just to help the company develop the game I love, even though I didn't really want/need the soundtrack and honestly hated the armor DLC. Now I will never give them another dollar just on principle even if it's something I do want, and I just feel very bitter towards this company and the general direction of the game.
 
Kandrathe said:
Jawoodle has entertained me for years with those razor-edge runs that flirt with chaos and death without ever feeling frustrating.

He knows how to keep the tension humming while pushing every boundary the game allows. The Fun Pimps built a huge part of their fan base on creators like him—people who showed the world what 7 Days to Die could be.

Now they’re treating those same creators as disposable, hitting them with copyright strikes over a mistake that originated with TFP giving him the wrong alpha and kicking them from the program.

If the company won’t show loyalty to the people who brought them their audience, why should that audience stay loyal in return?

This is their Bud Light moment—alienating the very fans who made them. One bad call like this makes longtime fans wonder if the game they love is still in good hands.

The numbers haven’t tanked yet, but the trust is eroding fast in the community. When your biggest supporters start questioning whether to stick around, the math stops working. I think TFP just shot themselves in the groin, and we all watch this game we have nurtured for a decade slowly die.
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That is one way to look at it. But the inverse would be woodle not "showing loyalty" for the game he presumably dedicates a large portion of his time towards and respects.

All the devs have to do is leave it alone now and eventually it will blow over.

The game won't die just because of a single youtuber who was also in the wrong. It might be different if the blame solely rested on TFP but it doesn't. Once they put out bandits the other youtubers will go make a check off the content and people will forget.
 
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Noxom said:
It's disgusting how the community is handling this situation, and the worst part is that it's not surprising.

TFP made a simple mistake. That doesn't mean the youtuber can suddenly do whatever the hell he wants with 100% freedom. He knew exactly what he was doing. TFP asked him to remedy the problem. He refused to be cool and edit/remove some content that he knew wasn't intentional to be shown. If he didn't know beforehand then he certainly would have after they asked him to remove it.


For those mentioning his loss of money: How much do you think he's making from all the videos revolving around this current drama? Nah let's just ignore that. I hope it's enough to cover the bridge that he decided to burn for no reason.

Anyone with a brain will look at the reviews and know immediately that it's purely performative nonsense.

Players with hundreds if not thousands of hours posting a bad review... and they all involve the same topic. A youtuber who made a scummy decision and is facing basic legal consequences for it. People acting like TFP are evil creatures of the night for doing this are out of their minds, though a lot of it is likely artificial. It's another excuse to jump on a hate/drama train for a cheap game you've spent hundreds of hours playing. Fakest bunch of people i've ever seen in any community. You don't stand for any real logic or principles. You have no spine and want to perform like jesters in the most obvious way.

Id bet all my teeth that every single one of them will jump on the next update like a feral beast. No one is being fooled by this ridiculous crap.
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The game is deinstalled, Cospy. The game is deinstalled for good.

BTW.. anyone with the reach and the brain..give TFP a Snickers, please.
 
Did none of you actually watch JaWoodle's explanation of the situation?

Here is the part when he explained why he didn't initially take down the content - and why, after Behavior's lawyers got involved, taking down the content would not have resolved the issue, and that further legal action could still follow.


Look, I like TFP too. I really hope this isn't driven by TFP at all, and is some nasty lawyering from Behavior. But no matter who did it, this is not ethical. JaWoodle did nothing wrong.
 
khzmusik said:
Did none of you actually watch JaWoodle's explanation of the situation?

Here is the part when he explained why he didn't initially take down the content - and why, after Behavior's lawyers got involved, taking down the content would not have resolved the issue, and that further legal action could still follow.


Look, I like TFP too. I really hope this isn't driven by TFP at all, and is some nasty lawyering from Behavior. But no matter who did it, this is not ethical. JaWoodle did nothing wrong.
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This was after he refused to edit or take down the video as he posted a video shortly after the reveal video saying as much.

His interpretation of the events are vague, potentially legally obliged, so I am not sure what the council sent and what "further action" would entail. From one perspective it sounds like TFP asked for the content to be modified or removed and he refused so they sent a formal letter.

Either way I don't imagine it would be smart of TFP or Behavior Interactive to push beyond the copyright strike so assuming all they have done to this point is copyright strike the videos and remove him from the program then I think a line hasn't been crossed yet.

Would I have taken the video down? No. But so far it is still within the realm of understanding for me. What I dislike is how interpretations present woodle as innocent and that he shouldn't have taken the video down. Actions have repercussions and I would have removed him from the program 100% if he didn't comply with the requests to remove or edit the content out. So he still shoulders some of the blame. Any content creator shoulders the cost of having to edit or remove content and the amount of money lost will now be much greater than if he simply edited or removed it.

Lastly, it's stupid to think he had no idea the bandits were not supposed to be shown. He likely thought it was a bug and showed it off. He has made a career out of finding loopholes in the game with various blocks and enjoys digging in the code and game files. I don't think that is a problem in itself, unless the developers ask for it to be removed.

Again, I am not suggesting TFP haven't over reacted on this, but likewise people are turning the guy into some white knight devoid of any responsibility which isn't the case either.
 
The whole armchair legal discusion people try to have here is fine. Just keep an eye on the timeline: This feels like the whole thing is set up to have him give in no matter if he's wrong or right or to escalate it beyond control. No consideration for timezones, not enough WORKINGdays to respond properly.
Feels a bit like how impopulair laws are pushed through by shady lobbyists in townhall meetings during holidays or the superbowl: If the timing is crappy enough there is no time for reason under the presure of an unreasonable deadline.

Well played, lawyers... Well played...
 
khzmusik said:
Did none of you actually watch JaWoodle's explanation of the situation?

Here is the part when he explained why he didn't initially take down the content - and why, after Behavior's lawyers got involved, taking down the content would not have resolved the issue, and that further legal action could still follow.


Look, I like TFP too. I really hope this isn't driven by TFP at all, and is some nasty lawyering from Behavior. But no matter who did it, this is not ethical. JaWoodle did nothing wrong.
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So they tried to get the videos removed, his source of income, without offering any compensation because THEY made a mistake and they confirmed in emails they didn't inform before the release what exactly was covered by the embargo. I believe if the leak was about lame chicken coops there would be no drama at all. TFP PR didn't change through years at all. Shame.
 
Kyoji said:
This was after he refused to edit or take down the video as he posted a video shortly after the reveal video saying as much.
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He did no such thing. He posted a comment on the original video saying that the features he showed were not coming in 3.0. This is the first video he posted saying what happened and why he didn't edit or take down the original video. (Edit: "this is the first video" refers to the video I linked.)

Kyoji said:
His interpretation of the events are vague, potentially legally obliged, so I am not sure what the council sent and what "further action" would entail. From one perspective it sounds like TFP asked for the content to be modified or removed and he refused so they sent a formal letter.
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JaWoodle was talking informally with TFP about how he thought he shouldn't be responsible for their mistake, and they (or Behaviour) responded by getting their lawyers to officially threaten him with legal action. Calling that a "formal letter" sounds like doublespeak to me.

Kyoji said:
Lastly, it's stupid to think he had no idea the bandits were not supposed to be shown. He likely thought it was a bug and showed it off.
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He did not do that, and I know because I watched the original video (multiple times) when it was still available.

What he did was mess around with spawning entities using F6. (The video shows him doing this.)

At worst, he knew bandits weren't going to be in 3.0, but still showed off what was in the game files as they were given to him as a sort of exploration about what bandits would eventually become. And he was enthusiastic about it. As was everyone who was concerned that TFP were slacking on bandits - this showed everyone that TFP were making real progress.

People do this all the time. I can't tell you how many times I've seen YouTube videos showing ripped WIP assets in some game's files and making an educated guess about how they will be implemented into the game. (There are hundreds about what will be in Subnautica 2.)

Nobody considers this a breach of an NDA, or some kind of effort to "leak" content. (And from what I could tell, the streamer weekend NDA was mostly about not posting videos before the embargo.)

But JaWoodle didn't even go that far. He didn't decompile C# code. He didn't rip the Unity assets to see what was in the game. (Both of which, I should say, are routinely done by modders - myself included.)

All he did was hit F6 and see what he could spawn in. This is something everyone does when they're trying to figure out what's new in the game without having to play through it to the end game. Hell, look at YouTube creators who are posting updates about the 3.1.0 experimental release - they're doing exactly the same thing.

(On that note - one of the major "leaks" that TFP are attacking JaWoodle for, are the chicken coops. Well, they're now released and they look exactly like they did in the build JaWoodle received. So what was the effing point in legally attacking him about this feature?)

Kyoji said:
Again, I am not suggesting TFP haven't over reacted on this, but likewise people are turning the guy into some white knight devoid of any responsibility which isn't the case either.
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It's not about JaWoodle being a "white knight." It's not about the notion that he is devoid of any responsibility. It's about the plain fact that he should be devoid of responsibility for actions which are entirely not his fault.

EDIT: Just to be clear, I'm only responding to your posts because they seem to be typical of JaWoodle's critics. I don't want to single you out personally. We disagree but you have made good points.
 
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Dark Sun said:
Not going against Woodle, but yeah if I were him I would have removed the video as soon as I was notified of the error on TFP's part. Sure, most of the people have probably already watched it, but you know...
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They actually admitted it was a mistake and didn't say it was all his fault; they gave him three chances and waited, but he’s being stubborn and picking a fight with them instead of calmly reaching an agreement.
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Kalex said:
Woodle isn't the one who screwed up, someone in TFP did. Own up to your own mistake. And how many times has someone from TFP leaked something early in a dev stream (quite a few times that I remember)? There are already those out there claiming that TFP deliberately gave him the wrong key so they would have a reason to attack him in retribution for him finding all the zombie pathing exploits.
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TFP made a mistake by sending him the wrong copy of the game, but he also erred by creating content about it and uploading it to YouTube before verifying the version he had received; he was given three chances to rectify his mistake, but he was too stubborn.
 
theFlu said:
Which is not "TFP stating they messed up", it only states "b205 wasn't meant to be seen by the public".

b205 was (presumably) used to help streamers setup for the job, this wasn't a fault, it was as intended. From there TFP might have messed up timing for the update, JaWoodle may have messed up updating, etc etc.
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Since they issued three requests to have the material removed, they were aware they had made a mistake; otherwise, they wouldn't have waited so long.
 
khzmusik said:
Did none of you actually watch JaWoodle's explanation of the situation?

Here is the part when he explained why he didn't initially take down the content - and why, after Behavior's lawyers got involved, taking down the content would not have resolved the issue, and that further legal action could still follow.
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What he says doesn't make sense at all. Let's say I release a video containing unreleased music from Rolling Stone which I had been given by accident. Rolling Stone would then ask me to edit the video to remove the songs. It would be a polite but formal request to stop an illegal activity. Should I then whine and complain that it would be too much of a bother? That it would mean I would have to edit timestamps and thumbnails and whatnot? ;) The other option is to take down the video altogether. Should I then complain that that would stop money coming in from the video? From a video that to a large extent was popular because it contained proprietary music I was not allowed to publicly disclose? ;)
 
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