PC The game should become more hardcore

[calebelt]

At the time when A15 and A16 were the current alphas, there were a group of oldtimers critizising the direction the game took and singing the praises of earlier versions. Some even claimed to be the majority because it was them that made up a big chunk of the posts and the majority of new threads. Stands to reason, players content with most stuff in the game seldomly created new threads.

Let's admit that earlier versions of the game also had some very interesting ideas. I liked a lot of things before version 15.

 

[Kalen]

With railroading I mean that if I decide to have rifles as my main ranged weapon I'm practically forced to shoot that weapon to improve it instead of just using whatever I have at hand and works at the moment, for example too much melee or even a bow. You may like that, I don't. I also like distributing perk points, but A15(?) and A16 had that too, so I would give them a pass on that count.

Wait a sec.... so your complaint with LBD is that you had to use the weapon you chose as your main weapon to get better at using it?   But you're ok with the current system where the perk structure dictates which weapons you're going to be good at?

 

[Jugginator]

Wait a sec.... so your complaint with LBD is that you had to use the weapon you chose as your main weapon to get better at using it?   But you're ok with the current system where the perk structure dictates which weapons you're going to be good at?

But the current system doesn't dictate which weapons you're going to be good at. You gain a level, click a new weapon thing and add the point. You can be good at any weapon with no points and adding one more gives you a nice bonus.

 

[meganoth]

Wait a sec.... so your complaint with LBD is that you had to use the weapon you chose as your main weapon to get better at using it?   But you're ok with the current system where the perk structure dictates which weapons you're going to be good at?

My main RANGED weapon. I want to use it in the right situations. But with a good melee weapon mosts POIs can be done just with melee. In horde night I'm trying to design good horde bases where the traps do much of the damage and I often have melee cages. I actually use very little ammo even when I do a FOR/rifle build.

It is my decision what I do with my points in the system the game puts in front of me. I have been playing RPG for years. If I play a mage in AD&D I know getting good with heavy axes or tracking is difficult to impossible for me. The interesting part is always to use the perk points optimally in the limits the system puts in front of you.

 

[SickPuppy]

...You can be good at any weapon with no points...

That's the problem. Casual. Immersion is at an all time low for me now nearing 5k hours. Due to lbd removed and this attribute/perk system I haven't even tried a19 yet, then I saw devs showcasing the new 'sprites' (fancy word for crap) all over the screen, more immersion being removed I literally said "NO!" while watching the video.

Character creation / progression is non engaging. Some have offered advice to 'fix' it eg give yourself 2 points every level just to by pass these useless Attributes. Some have mentioned zomboid, very interesting character creation over there. I get it, catering to the thousand hours players would drive away new casual players. There's really no other way than learn to mod, wait for mods or have a good old rant in the forums. 

But back to OP. More hardcore for me would be to make survival much more challenging, think The Long Dark survival in 7Days, pretty sweet.

 

[Jugginator]

If you bump the game to survivalist or insane those "useless attribute points" become useful again. 

Want survival? Nomad play style, ditch the starter quest, dont go to the trader before day 8(or not at all), play on nightmare speeds, survivalist (insane after day 8), change the 24 hour cycles to 30 mins. Sure Long dark has hardcore survival. But, there would only be a handful of people willing to play 7 days to die with zombies the bloodmoon and all of that with THAT much survival. I do agree about the sprites everywhere; I hope they make those toggleable at some point. I prefer no UI heh.

 

[SickPuppy]

Yer all done and dusted, jaxteller has some nice mods to 5x the zombies, you can still outrun nightmare zeds. Insane/nightmare, 25% loot, stone age tools and bows only, permadeath, no trader, no can food. I think I've just played too much and needed a breather. I'm sure I'll try 19 at some point. 

Its mainly the perk/attributes system, i just don't find it engaging. I came to have a look if there's any news on a revamp but it seems they're gonna stick with it. 

 

[Kalen]

But the current system doesn't dictate which weapons you're going to be good at. You gain a level, click a new weapon thing and add the point. You can be good at any weapon with no points and adding one more gives you a nice bonus.

Semantics.... I'm pretty sure you know what I  meant.  With the current system you cannot be an expert miner and an expert with pistols without significantly more investment of points than you would to be an expert miner and an expert with a shotgun.   That was not an issue with LBD.  

The interesting part is always to use the perk points optimally in the limits the system puts in front of you.

Fair enough.  The interesting thing for me was the lack of limits in previous alphas.

 

[meganoth]

Semantics.... I'm pretty sure you know what I  meant.  With the current system you cannot be an expert miner and an expert with pistols without significantly more investment of points than you would to be an expert miner and an expert with a shotgun.   That was not an issue with LBD. 

Correct. No system is perfect.

 

[Perramas]

I agree, that is why I remove Traders, turn off air drops, turn off loot respawn, remove treasure maps from loot tables, reduce the frequency of canned food and play dead is dead.

 

[gurutar]

as others have pointed out, this game is as "hardcore" as you want it to be. you can create as much difficulty as you want.

i remember a thread on GameFaqs or something that complained that MGS5 was too easy. but in that game you have all these magic tools to give yourself a tremendous advantage over your enemies. however, you have the option of dropping in to a mission with no buddy, no camo, no weapons, no equipment, no upgraded anything, and try to do a perfect stealth run fast enough to get an S rank. anyone who complains that that is too easy is trying to show off.

this game makes it even easier to create a "hardcore" experience by giving you tons of options that affect difficulty. and you can also self-impose all kinds of restrictions. no trader. limit the number of crates and safes you can open. use no light source at night. only use Q1 weapons and tools. the list goes on and on.

so no, this game does not need to be more "hardcore", we're folk who sit on a chair or a couch and play video games for entertainment. not actual apocalypse survivors.

 

[FA_Q2]

The game should absolutely be more 'hardcore' but then again I would not consider myself to be an average player and, ergo, not the target the devs are reaching for.

Nothing in the op has anything to do with hardcore play at all though so.....

 

[Esperante]

NO absolutely DO NOT make the game more hardcore its already been ruined enough because of a bunch of whinny babys that didnt like how it was altho i do appreciate the trader quests skill tree and new weapons

 

[myrkana]

Semantics.... I'm pretty sure you know what I  meant.  With the current system you cannot be an expert miner and an expert with pistols without significantly more investment of points than you would to be an expert miner and an expert with a shotgun.   That was not an issue with LBD.  

Fair enough.  The interesting thing for me was the lack of limits in previous alphas.

but you can. The base amount of points is plenty to go down two trees with little trouble. I always pick two trees and easily go down them both and get what I want.

 

[Kalen]

but you can. The base amount of points is plenty to go down two trees with little trouble. I always pick two trees and easily go down them both and get what I want.

I never said you couldn't.... I said that the costs were not equal.  

 

[Roland]

With the current system you cannot be an expert miner and an expert with pistols without significantly more investment of points than you would to be an expert miner and an expert with a shotgun

That seems to be a pretty good representation of how we learn things based on natural traits and abilities that we have. With my investment into my education and training it would be relatively cheap at this point to invest a bit more and become a College professor of math or become an administrator. But if I want to be doctor it would be significantly more expensive for me to do so.

The key here is that you CAN be an expert in mining and pistols if you want. It will take more time and you may have to make sacrifices in other areas but you can do it. The game doesn't lock you out of it.  If the added expense and time are really bothersome then simply change the number 4 in quests.xml into a 16 and buy out that second attribute. Now your extra expense is gone.

I know "mod it" isn't something people like to hear, but in this case the system is done and with a bit of polish is intended for gold. So....."mod it" really is the only answer if you don't like it.

 

[FA_Q2]

That seems to be a pretty good representation of how we learn things based on natural traits and abilities that we have. With my investment into my education and training it would be relatively cheap at this point to invest a bit more and become a College professor of math or become an administrator. But if I want to be doctor it would be significantly more expensive for me to do so.

The key here is that you CAN be an expert in mining and pistols if you want. It will take more time and you may have to make sacrifices in other areas but you can do it. The game doesn't lock you out of it.  If the added expense and time are really bothersome then simply change the number 4 in quests.xml into a 16 and buy out that second attribute. Now your extra expense is gone.

I know "mod it" isn't something people like to hear, but in this case the system is done and with a bit of polish is intended for gold. So....."mod it" really is the only answer if you don't like it.

Unfortunately.

I think they really screwed the pooch by joining combat styles with other base game parts but as you say the system is essentially complete so it's not going to change dramatically.

Stuck with strength every damn time because I am going to be doing a lot of mining

 

[Kalen]

That seems to be a pretty good representation of how we learn things based on natural traits and abilities that we have. With my investment into my education and training it would be relatively cheap at this point to invest a bit more and become a College professor of math or become an administrator. But if I want to be doctor it would be significantly more expensive for me to do so.

The key here is that you CAN be an expert in mining and pistols if you want. It will take more time and you may have to make sacrifices in other areas but you can do it. The game doesn't lock you out of it.  If the added expense and time are really bothersome then simply change the number 4 in quests.xml into a 16 and buy out that second attribute. Now your extra expense is gone.

I know "mod it" isn't something people like to hear, but in this case the system is done and with a bit of polish is intended for gold. So....."mod it" really is the only answer if you don't like it.

To be honest, the current system doesn't bother me enough to mod it; its fine.   I just liked LBD better and this is just one of the reasons why.

 

[TWORDY]

You cant satisfy everyone as they say.... I wish more options could have been available for tweaking, so modding the game wouldnt be that much necessary. Making polished/smooth animations is a must. Finally fixing framerate and optimization for multicore/threaded CPUs. Devs should derive a little bit from other mods for the game or incorporate solutions from SMX mod etc. which is a very popular mod. Balancing and progession system is the next thing I could think of now.

 

[eXSe]

Most players do, and TFP is being stuborne about bringing back the learn by doing that made A16 so memoriable, or part of the reason why it was anyway. Now I miss A18, because other than the graphical things, A18 was overall a much more fun entertaining game, and as I said, the new loot system removed most of the fun from the game for me, and apparently for quite a few others too, as most people that reply do not care for the new loot system in a19 either. They can revert it in a 19.x patch, just copy a18's loot system over (its just xml entries iirc), and add in the new things. Maybe tweak it so a bit harder to find higher technology tier things, but otherwise leave it like a18 was.

There is a modlet for that, so that's good (FAWK-LOOT-ALL).

For those seeking more HC experience, there are modlets for that also... 8x spawns for zambies (so, you're swimming in them), also bigger wandering hordes (like 5-6 times bigger) a sight to behold truly (WrathmaniacsMoreZombies_x8 & FAWK-WANDERING-HORDES)