PC The game should become more hardcore

[Scyris]

And whats the problem with people changing the settings to turn their games more easy? Whats the problem if they want play in creative? Or even without zombies? Or XP 300% and Loot 300%?

Its a game after all. The purpose of a game like this is to give fun to its players. If you like hardcore game, like me, just configure settings like you want, or play in servers with hard settings, if you dont, just easy the game. It is fair enough for all of us, hardcore and soft players. Dont try oblige all players play YOUR style of gameplay.

I would be very angry if someone came here and said that now, mandatorily, the maximum difficulty of the game would be easy and without bloodmoons just because there are people who hate bloodmoon. And I am sure you would be very angry just as me. So, if you dont like this idea, dont try forcer others play hardcore juts because you like.

And on top of that, there are players who dont have much time to play, they not are like me, who can play 4-8 hours in a single day and can go through a hardcore gameplaying. Some can play just 1 hour, or 30 min, but still like the game, still want play and need easy settings and easy looting to achieve high levels and high tier. Without the soft settings, these players will be locked at the stoneage forever. And no fun for all. Less players, less customers buiyng the game, and at the end: TFP droping the project and turning our beloved game abandoned.

I will stand by your side if you want TFP improve gameplay mechanics and add more hardcore OPTIONS to the game, but I will opose you if you want turn these options mandatory.

Think about that.

This is why I complained when they let zombies dig, if I wanna live in a hobo cave in the ground and avoid horde night, I should damn well be allowed to, its my gameplay, not that I did avoid the blood moons, I just dislike the SI system, most of my bases end up completly collapsing due to me placing 1 more block than I could. I really wish when that happens, it just drops the block you just placed, instead of the entire line of blocks or in some cases a cascade that takes out the entire thing. I used to make a base 25-30 blocks underground as it was more stable than trying to build my own base for me. Now zombies dig, and can swim faster than the player can, are better structural engineers than most players as they always know where the weak points of a structure is.

The devs keep removing choice from the player and quite frankly its pissing me off. The most recent way they removed choice was the a19 loot system, its super linear, and you are forced into a certain loot progression that quite frankly is complete garbage. Its too easy to get quality 5-6 items now, they are guarnteed once your above a certain gamestage, unlike a18 where even at high GS finding a quality 4-6 item was pretty rare. They also removed the randomness of loot, making every single game pretty much the exact same, which was a issue a17 had, since it lacked schematics, you were shoehorned into intel, or else you'd not be able to craft much of anything. They also took away learn by doing, which I would like to see come back for weapons and mining tools only, with the perks that sets what quality you can craft and the bonuses to it, based off of the skill level you have in the tool. Same perks A18/19 has, just instead of locked to stats, its locked to skill in that weapon type. I never cared for the idea of weapons being locked to stats.

All in all, I won't be playing a19 much unless the loot system gets reverted back to a18 with just the new items added to it, as I play dead is dead in my games, and a19 just is no fun to do this in as all the loot randomness has been removed pretty much, so every game is essentally the exact same now. 1 step forward 2-3 steps back is whats going on here pretty much.

 

[Dracula]

I think that a cluttered menu is an idiotic reason to not add as many adjustable features as possible.  I would like to see twice as many menu options so that people can make more choices and turn off things that they dislike so that they can best tailor the game to their preferences without mods.

A19 has been the Alpha that I have played the least since, apart from the graphic changes, the gated loot makes early game dull and the lack of a late game means that there's nothing to do when I have enough resources.  That's not a matter of difficulty; as I'd even gone so far as to turn up the difficulty to where it was nearly impossible; it was a challenge, but it wasn't fun.

It is as hardcore as you make it.

 

[Scyris]

I think that a cluttered menu is an idiotic reason to not add as many adjustable features as possible.  I would like to see twice as many menu options so that people can make more choices and turn off things that they dislike so that they can best tailor the game to their preferences without mods.

A19 has been the Alpha that I have played the least since, apart from the graphic changes, the gated loot makes early game dull and the lack of a late game means that there's nothing to do when I have enough resources.  That's not a matter of difficulty; as I'd even gone so far as to turn up the difficulty to where it was nearly impossible; it was a challenge, but it wasn't fun.

It is as hardcore as you make it.

The graphic changes are nice, but graphics don't make a game good, a game can have the best graphics in the world and still be crap, its just crap with sprinkles and glitter on it then. Every since they announced the loot system for a19 I was worried because it sounded very limiting and very linear with no real variance what so ever. Sadly it ended up being ad bland and bad as I thought it would be, I mean the idea sounded ok on paper, but actually in game its horrible for gameplay.

 

[Biscoitoso]

This is why I complained when they let zombies dig, if I wanna live in a hobo cave in the ground and avoid horde night, I should damn well be allowed to, its my gameplay, not that I did avoid the blood moons, I just dislike the SI system, most of my bases end up completly collapsing due to me placing 1 more block than I could. I really wish when that happens, it just drops the block you just placed, instead of the entire line of blocks or in some cases a cascade that takes out the entire thing. I used to make a base 25-30 blocks underground as it was more stable than trying to build my own base for me. Now zombies dig, and can swim faster than the player can, are better structural engineers than most players as they always know where the weak points of a structure is.

The devs keep removing choice from the player and quite frankly its pissing me off. The most recent way they removed choice was the a19 loot system, its super linear, and you are forced into a certain loot progression that quite frankly is complete garbage. Its too easy to get quality 5-6 items now, they are guarnteed once your above a certain gamestage, unlike a18 where even at high GS finding a quality 4-6 item was pretty rare. They also removed the randomness of loot, making every single game pretty much the exact same, which was a issue a17 had, since it lacked schematics, you were shoehorned into intel, or else you'd not be able to craft much of anything. They also took away learn by doing, which I would like to see come back for weapons and mining tools only, with the perks that sets what quality you can craft and the bonuses to it, based off of the skill level you have in the tool. Same perks A18/19 has, just instead of locked to stats, its locked to skill in that weapon type. I never cared for the item of weapons being locked to stats.

All in all, I won't be playing a19 much unless the loot system gets reverted back to a18 with just the new items added to it, as I play dead is dead in my games, and a19 just is no fun to do this in as all the loot randomness has been removed pretty much, so every game is essentally the exact same now. 1 step forward 2-3 steps back is whats going on here pretty much.

Man.. I totally agree with you!!! Miss the gold and old A-16.

 

[Scyris]

Man.. I totally agree with you!!! Miss the gold and old A-16.

Most players do, and TFP is being stuborne about bringing back the learn by doing that made A16 so memoriable, or part of the reason why it was anyway. Now I miss A18, because other than the graphical things, A18 was overall a much more fun entertaining game, and as I said, the new loot system removed most of the fun from the game for me, and apparently for quite a few others too, as most people that reply do not care for the new loot system in a19 either. They can revert it in a 19.x patch, just copy a18's loot system over (its just xml entries iirc), and add in the new things. Maybe tweak it so a bit harder to find higher technology tier things, but otherwise leave it like a18 was.

 

[Biscoitoso]

Most players do, and TFP is being stuborne about bringing back the learn by doing that made A16 so memoriable, or part of the reason why it was anyway. Now I miss A18, because other than the graphical things, A18 was overall a much more fun entertaining game, and as I said, the new loot system removed most of the fun from the game for me, and apparently for quite a few others too, as most people that reply do not care for the new loot system in a19 either. They can revert it in a 19.x patch, just copy a18's loot system over (its just xml entries iirc), and add in the new things. Maybe tweak it so a bit harder to find higher technology tier things, but otherwise leave it like a18 was.

Agreed. But now we have this stupid RPG Attribute system that force us to play with pre-made characters.

TFP: "Oh, you want be a miner? Ok, but now you will fight using shotguns and clubs."
Player: "But I dont like shotguns and clubs, I like knifes and machineguns."
TFP: "That is not our problem."

 

[HungryZombie]

The developers plan to make it so that the zombies jump on their heads and coins fly out of them?

I would so play this game.

 

[Solomon]

Agreed. But now we have this stupid RPG Attribute system that force us to play with pre-made characters.

TFP: "Oh, you want be a miner? Ok, but now you will fight using shotguns and clubs."
Player: "But I dont like shotguns and clubs, I like knifes and machineguns."
TFP: "That is not our problem."

I dont understand why this kind of enforced connection was needed, the whole perk system could have boiled down to perk related effect with a 5th tab called combat efficiency where every weapon related thing is.

You put a point into any of the main perks and gain 1 for combat efficiency.

 

[Biscoitoso]

I dont understand why this kind of enforced connection was needed, the whole perk system could have boiled down to perk related effect with a 5th tab called combat efficiency where every weapon related thing is.

You put a point into any of the main perks and gain 1 for combat efficiency.

Hyeah... But MM said it not will change.

 

[Jugginator]

Agreed. But now we have this stupid RPG Attribute system that force us to play with pre-made characters.

TFP: "Oh, you want be a miner? Ok, but now you will fight using shotguns and clubs."
Player: "But I dont like shotguns and clubs, I like knifes and machineguns."
TFP: "That is not our problem."

Yeah, the perks may be there, but I'm not going to lie, I rarely in my runs spec into a particular weapon perk until mid to late game. Guns in general are very effective without the perk, same for other weapons. Sure you may need sex T to be able to melee a lot but it's not needed unless you're going sledge hammers. You won't be the best using a weapon you're not perked into, but you'll be able to kill stuff effectively with it. You're not forced to play with pre-made characters.

 

[PoloPoPo]

Agreed. But now we have this stupid RPG Attribute system that force us to play with pre-made characters.

I agree with Jugginator there. You are not forced to play with anything you don't like. No one stops you from being a miner and using knifes and machineguns as primary weapons. Both work excellent even without any skill points spent on them. Some skill points are a must have for me but that does not apply to weapon stuff as well. If you are able to increase efficiency of your weapons with skill points that is a nice bonus but not mandatory.

By the way, what prevents you from spending skill points on both mining and fortitude (for machineguns e.g.)? If every weapon could be skilled individually you had to put skill points on both anyway.

 

[JaxTeller718]

What for? Imagine there is a game about racing. In this game, there are few turns on the tracks and slow cars. Players are asked to add interesting tracks with obstacles and increase the speed of cars. But you say: you need to do 20 laps on a circular track at a speed of 30 km/h. And if I say that it is no more fun, Then you will offer to do 50 laps on a straight track at a speed of 10 km/h.

In games, you can make settings with checkboxes. Weak players will disable all difficulties.

In early versions of the game, they survived in the desert and wilderness. The rules of the game were more complicated than you can now set in the settings. When the bridge appeared, spare parts for it could only be found in rare air conditioners and shopping carts.

You must be a real new player. Weapon mods didnt exist two alphas ago and traders didnt 6-7 alphas ago and the game was perfectly playable and fine well before these "essential" mechanics came in.

 

[Dracula]

Getting rid of the loot system, digging zombies, and return to learn by doing and the game would be excellent.

 

[calebelt]

For fun, I installed 16.4 and 19 v173. Played for 30 minutes in each version, then increased the character's level by 10.

In version 16.4 it is interesting to explore the world, zombies really scare and can kill if you relax. The default settings are average. I just set the option where zombies always run.

In version 19, you have to stand and not move so that the zombies will kill you. I've played 60 hours of version 19 before and I've never been killed by a zombie. The level set the highest, always running.

I don't know about You but I don't like this new mechanics of increasing the level of zombies along with the level of the player. If the player is weak, then even a zombie mouse should bite him. And if the player is strong, he can fight several zombies and survive.

Try running version 19, summon the screaming zombie girls, don't kill the zombie girls so that the zombies run from all sides. You will notice that you can easily run and dodge while killing zombies with any weapon.

Try to do the same in version 16. The difference is visible immediately. In version 16, scary zombies and the apocalypse. Version 19 has a sandbox with colorful and cute zombies.

 

[meganoth]

At the time when A15 and A16 were the current alphas, there were a group of oldtimers critizising the direction the game took and singing the praises of earlier versions. Some even claimed to be the majority because it was them that made up a big chunk of the posts and the majority of new threads. Stands to reason, players content with most stuff in the game seldomly created new threads.

Oh look, there's a Deja Vu crossing the street . Now some of you are the new generation of grumpy old (wo)men who pine for the old times. Yes, it is bad that this game can't be the Swiss army knife for all players without installing some mods, but that's a fact: Some players who discovered 7D2D in its very dynamic EA history will see versions they like much more than the version eventually released.

Their only hope are mods, mods that also will only really shine once the game is released. Because now changing for new alphas takes too much work and TFP can't help modders at the moment with a stable and mostly buf-free mod-interface.

 

[JaxTeller718]

At the time when A15 and A16 were the current alphas, there were a group of oldtimers critizising the direction the game took and singing the praises of earlier versions. Some even claimed to be the majority because it was them that made up a big chunk of the posts and the majority of new threads. Stands to reason, players content with most stuff in the game seldomly created new threads.

Oh look, there's a Deja Vu crossing the street . Now some of you are the new generation of grumpy old (wo)men who pine for the old times. Yes, it is bad that this game can't be the Swiss army knife for all players without installing some mods, but that's a fact: Some players who discovered 7D2D in its very dynamic EA history will see versions they like much more than the version eventually released.

Their only hope are mods, mods that also will only really shine once the game is released. Because now changing for new alphas takes too much work and TFP can't help modders at the moment with a stable and mostly buf-free mod-interface.

I mean i want to believe. I really do.

But some wish to look at this development through rose colored glasses and sing praises for every little decision made. I own enough games, been part of enough EA titles and played enough survival genre titles to see the forest for the trees. You can LOVE the direction the game is taking for sure. No one can criticize someone for liking something.

But the fact is this is one of very few EA survival titles that every alpha cycle since A16 has been REMOVING complexity, difficulty and mechanics that have been around for years. Some games like Empyrion do go through major overhauls, but then you have others like Project Zomboid, or Terraria or Subnautica or so many others where every major update you see enemies and mechanics getting simpler and more complex rather than more streamlined.

You cant really blame people for expecting great things. The game will always be great at its core, but for 16 alphas the community watched and experienced every new patch bring more complexity, more enemies, more items, more everything. Since 17 however many new developers they brought on decided it was a good idea to rip out that infrastructure. Their prerogative sure. But i sometimes do wish they had moved on when they wanted to to a second 7 days game or a new game because i suspect what we are getting now is feature creep from their next game. This is definitely not the same game we were playing 4 years ago.

 

[meganoth]

I mean i want to believe. I really do.

But some wish to look at this development through rose colored glasses and sing praises for every little decision made. I own enough games, been part of enough EA titles and played enough survival genre titles to see the forest for the trees. You can LOVE the direction the game is taking for sure. No one can criticize someone for liking something.

But the fact is this is one of very few EA survival titles that every alpha cycle since A16 has been REMOVING complexity, difficulty and mechanics that have been around for years. Some games like Empyrion do go through major overhauls, but then you have others like Project Zomboid, or Terraria or Subnautica or so many others where every major update you see enemies and mechanics getting simpler and more complex rather than more streamlined.

You cant really blame people for expecting great things. The game will always be great at its core, but for 16 alphas the community watched and experienced every new patch bring more complexity, more enemies, more items, more everything. Since 17 however many new developers they brought on decided it was a good idea to rip out that infrastructure. Their prerogative sure. But i sometimes do wish they had moved on when they wanted to to a second 7 days game or a new game because i suspect what we are getting now is feature creep from their next game. This is definitely not the same game we were playing 4 years ago.

I may have rose-colored classes. I definitely am in line with the direction of the game, especially the move from LBD (which I personally don't much like for its railroading) to RPG and the changes to zombie AI.

Before A17 building for me was boring, since A17 I have designed and built an always different craft base and/or horde base in most of our co-op runs. Before A17 I left that mostly to someone else. At least with the building aspect I can prove that it isn't just the classes but I became a lot more active in the game because of the changes.

With railroading I mean that if I decide to have rifles as my main ranged weapon I'm practically forced to shoot that weapon to improve it instead of just using whatever I have at hand and works at the moment, for example too much melee or even a bow. You may like that, I don't. I also like distributing perk points, but A15(?) and A16 had that too, so I would give them a pass on that count.

I may have a blind eye but I don't see the complexity vanishing, I see myself becoming expert in everything 7D2D. The "complexitiy" of A15 will never again happen to me because I was a newbie then and didn't know all the details of the game. Even then, at the end of A15 it became apparent that I knew too much and the game played the same except for the uncertainty when the dump@%$*#!s book dropped.

Actually A17.0 was the the only time the vanilla game became difficult and complex again (mainly the horde base defense), much more difficult than A16 at any time.

If it is the complexity of crafting you are refering to, sorry, I don't see sticks or other intermediate crafting steps as complexity, it is just one more pair of tokens in a game of memory and more grind. The only real loss of complexity I can see was with the weapons system. Yes, that got streamlined.

As a last point, the heavy experimentation TFP has done might be seen as a detriment because it was "REMOVING mechanics that have been around for years", but for me that is one of the main reasons that kept 7D2D fresh. Even if some aspects changed in a way I might not have liked.

Any mod that tries to recreate that old stuff shows that once played it gets old fast. After a new alpha my group always starts with vanilla and then we make a round through available total convs. And the rather fixed additions to vanilla they already had the previous run often feel old and used up immediately. Only the new features really look interesting.

 

[JaxTeller718]

Any mod that tries to recreate that old stuff shows that once played it gets old fast. After a new alpha my group always starts with vanilla and then we make a round through available total convs. And the rather fixed additions to vanilla they already had the previous run often feel old and used up immediately. Only the new features really look interesting.

Agree to disagree there bud

 

[meganoth]

Agree to disagree there bud

Good. I don't want to discourage modders.

Official message: "Mods are always fresh and shiny. Some of my best friends are modders"

 

[Jugginator]

Just my personal opinion, but the only complex thing about a16 was trying to figure out how to build a base that was fun to defend (without breaking the insanely dumb AI) or how to actually get a challenge/editing a ton of XML to make survival an actual thing lol.