PC The big crying thread for 17.2 Economy

[General Lee]

If nothing has changed in the 17.2 you cannot find the solar cells and the solar bank. They are not listed in any loot table.Accordingly, the only place where you can get both is the trader.

That's how it is with some things, by the way. Admittedly, most of them are purely decorative, but there are still things you can only get from the trader.

In an early version of A17, I believe the first experimental that was released, you could wrench solar banks at POIs for a small chance at getting a solar cell out of them. I remember early on I wrenched one, and got a Level 1 Solar Cell, but after updating to A17.1 I haven't been able to wrench any out of the POI banks. I haven't looked at the loot tables, so I don't know if solar cells were removed from them.

 

[lord_ahriman]

I don't think nerf in 17.2 is a "current nerf", Madmole said there was a bug in lvl 1 Barter perk. That being said, I think current state isn't friendly to crafters/builders so my proposal would be change the "sell limit 3", but not automatically it would be tied to the Barter Perk, this way each lvl would allow you to sell and extra item therefore at lvl 5 you could sell 8 items. Example, in 17.1 a steel tool would give me 5477 tokens, and now 2100 so selling 3 I would get 16431 and with lvl 5 barter I would get 16800. Yes, I would get a little bit more money, but I need more resources to achieve that.

 

[RipClaw]

That's my point - anything that is not listed, can be listed. Finding them via exploration offers way more to the gameplay. Exploration is something the game needs to capitalize much more on. And they could still be available at traders but at really high prices and lower availability, if their status as "chase items" is to be preserved.
Also, they could still be chase items and not be completely random and extremely rare, like some recipes/items were a few alphas ago, with players on the 999th week complaining that they had not found them yet.

Interestingly, my reason to explore the map in Alpha 16 was to find new traders. I've always needed new traders to sell what the horde brought me and then buy ammo from it. At the end I had marked about 20 traders on the map.

I have always reserved 1-2 days a week for traders. I also liked to drive through the area to collect resources. That was much more interesting for me than the POIs.

I only went to the POIs at the beginning when I needed equipment and recipes.

But since I knew where to find what I could find best, I ignored most of the houses.

That someone on day 999 is still looking for a certain thing might be rather rare. Most give up relatively quickly and restart.

 

[RestInPieces]

Interestingly, my reason to explore the map in Alpha 16 was to find new traders. I've always needed new traders to sell what the horde brought me and then buy ammo from it. At the end I had marked about 20 traders on the map.
I have always reserved 1-2 days a week for traders. I also liked to drive through the area to collect resources. That was much more interesting for me than the POIs.

I only went to the POIs at the beginning when I needed equipment and recipes.

But since I knew where to find what I could find best, I ignored most of the houses.

That someone on day 999 is still looking for a certain thing might be rather rare. Most give up relatively quickly and restart.

Makes absolute sense that finding traders would be more interesting than POIs, since most items are available through them and POI lootlists quickly become obsolete. Not saying that there shouldn't be various reasons for the player to be excited to find a trader, but besides a few traders in a map and resources that are mostly found everywhere, exploration is all about POIs.

It doesn't even happen nowadays. People used to complain in earlier alphas about certain items being "too random". Didn't share their complaints and I do love a good amount of rng in my games, but there could be a compromise with both rng and player-controlled looting. Now the opposite of the "too random" is happening, which is worse. Many recipes have been moved to perks gated by levels. Chase items are not enough and lootlists are too generous and not specific enough. I think that better lootlists, with some environmental obstacles/gating and more recipes being moved to "exploration gating", instead of perks, would make for a better experience.

 

[HungryZombie]

They nerfed the selling values to approximately one third of what you used to sell things. A steel pickaxe used to sell for 7000 with trader perks maxed. Now it sells for 2100 coins. The buying prices have also increased as well.

It makes no sense that a trader would scam you into buying stuff multiple times their value,especially if he wants to keep you as a living customer.

Also Joel literally made a thread the other day explaining how he wants role playing characters. Well I was personally playing as a furniture crafter ,I was basically crafting then selling tones of picnic tables and occasionally beds . The picnic tables used to sell for around 581 coins each,now with the nerf on the sell and buying values they sell around 100 coins. The beds had a starting price of around 1.5 thousand coins and now they got hit with the hammer nerf as well.

I can understand if they want to nerf the experience gained from selling but dramatically reducing the sell and dramatically increasing the buy ratio is NOT what the community wanted,at least not the reddit and the steam communities.

Finally the solution is really simple: Undo the nerfs and buff the barter skills. And I personally cannot understand the 3 stack limit on every item. It does not make sense to not be able to stack food or gas on a zombie apocalypse game . Plus some people like me would like to try a farming business . As it stands gaining money from farming is not a good business at all.

Finally the devs should undo the dramatic reduction of iron materials. 50 rocks used to sell for around 14 coins and 50 iron if I recall correctly used to sell for 10. It would be logical to have iron cost more than rocks,afterall iron *is* more important than rocks on every situation,from early to late game.

Don't the trader only buy 3 of those furnature items? How did you get around this?

 

[RipClaw]

Makes absolute sense that finding traders would be more interesting than POIs, since most items are available through them and POI lootlists quickly become obsolete. Not saying that there shouldn't be various reasons for the player to be excited to find a trader, but besides a few traders in a map and resources that are mostly found everywhere, exploration is all about POIs.

It always depends on how you play. I'm not particularly interested in fighting or looting. I'm more interested in building and crafting. Not that I don't loot a POI here and there and fight zombies, but that's not my main motivation.

There's not much to discover right now anyway. The maps are tiny compared to the Alpha 16 and if you're unlucky, it's covered with waterworks and radio towers.

It doesn't even happen nowadays. People used to complain in earlier alphas about certain items being "too random". Didn't share their complaints and I do love a good amount of rng in my games, but there could be a compromise with both rng and player-controlled looting.

There's the difference between us. I don't like RNG. I can't rely on something random and so I try to build something I can rely on as quickly as possible. Probably because I never had much luck. Accordingly I do not trust in luck.

 

[RipClaw]

Don't the trader only buy 3 of those furnature items? How did you get around this?

He only buys 3 stacks. But I believe these pieces of furniture stack up to 500.

 

[RestInPieces]

It always depends on how you play. I'm not particularly interested in fighting or looting. I'm more interested in building and crafting. Not that I don't loot a POI here and there and fight zombies, but that's not my main motivation.
There's not much to discover right now anyway. The maps are tiny compared to the Alpha 16 and if you're unlucky, it's covered with waterworks and radio towers.

There's the difference between us. I don't like RNG. I can't rely on something random and so I try to build something I can rely on as quickly as possible. Probably because I never had much luck. Accordingly I do not trust in luck.

Don't have much time right now - forgive me, I'll be more brief that I should but I have to hurry.

-The game is objectively much more than building and crafting so you understand that it must capitalize on everything the game is.

-Everyone likes RNG they just don't realize it ;D (I want to expand on this but no time atm).

 

[Maynard69]

More than traders? No. Mods do have a "chase item" that is needed to craft them (which is their schematic - which acts as a generic rare material atm because it is one-use only). Weapons are gated behind perks.
That said, crafting still hurts exploration by gating guns behind perks. I'd still prefer many recipes to be exploration gated, or BOTH perk and exploration gated (in a specific way). Lootlists are too generous atm anyway though.

Chase mod schematics? I found two in my first 2 trash bags in 17.2. Not only that they are just paper until you craft them, not exactly jumping up and down to go looting for them.

I was talking about guns, augers, ya know the stuff we used to have to loot or buy at the trader.

 

[Maynard69]

Don't have much time right now - forgive me, I'll be more brief that I should but I have to hurry.
-The game is objectively much more than building and crafting so you understand that it must capitalize on everything the game is.

-Everyone likes RNG they just don't realize it ;D (I want to expand on this but no time atm).

I realized how much I loved RNG right after they took it out. Naw, I always loved it.

 

[RestInPieces]

Chase mod schematics? I found two in my first 2 trash bags in 17.2.

Yep! They have been implemented in order to work as chase items, but lootlists are terrible so they really aren't.

 

[RipClaw]

Don't have much time right now - forgive me, I'll be more brief that I should but I have to hurry.
-The game is objectively much more than building and crafting so you understand that it must capitalize on everything the game is.

I know, but the game is also more than killing zombies and looting POIs. So there has to be a balance between these aspects. And to get back to the subject, the traders are part of this balance.

-Everyone likes RNG they just don't realize it ;D (I want to expand on this but no time atm).

Reminds me of a 7D2D stream when someone asked the player if he liked the game. The player stepped on a landmine 2 seconds later and died. My thought here was "At the moment he probably doesn't like the game"

Randomness is nice when you win but bad when you lose.

 

[apostrophe]

Reminds me of a 7D2D stream when someone asked the player if he liked the game. The player stepped on a landmine 2 seconds later and died. My thought here was "At the moment he probably doesn't like the game"
Randomness is nice when you win but bad when you lose.

Reminded of the Duke Nukem clone, NAM. God, the mines and the airstrikes in that game, such perversity.

 

[fragtzack]

The economy nerf was needed.

 

[Royal Deluxe]

The economy nerf was needed.

 

[fishjie]

If they nerfed the trader, i really hoped they nerfed the green zombies showing up in a few days and infesting every POI. on my next playthrough i was going to skip intelligence because i can't afford not to put points into a tank meelee build to fight greens, but if i can't buy gear from trader, and i can't craft my own stuff, and most of the loot boxes have garbage even with 3 points in lucky looter......

 

[Royal Deluxe]

Trader had a Q6 shotgun in week 1...?

Not allways, but often

End of week 1 i normally have barter 4/5

(besides some points to reduce the stamina and encumberance issue all other points i spend in looting and wrenching )

Arround end of day 8 (when i i stopped my current testgame )(forgot to empty my minibike i saw now when i checked the skills, so more aike day 7.5) i spawned in 2 trader and sold all my stuff i could sell and throw away all trash so that the rest fits on one screenshot

Skill was

5,3,3,2,8 with points in perks

8,6,0,0,7

Playerlevel 48 mostly by wrenching cars

(I collected only arround 10 Gas barrels. So i wrenched gas for arround 112 Barrels)

Q6 Iron tools = Selfmade

All other Q6 = buyed

AND AGAIN

THIS WAS ON A PERFECT SEED/STARTPOSITION

Only mods i had was (from day 4 on)

GUI

Backpack

Vehicle slots

Vehicle speed (what includes turbo without pressing shift)(i was forced to install, my Small finger still hurts, i guess i need a surgery)

and my respawners (i installed to test the 12 real hour respawn

So no big affect on the topic

 

[RipClaw]

If they nerfed the trader, i really hoped they nerfed the green zombies showing up in a few days and infesting every POI. on my next playthrough i was going to skip intelligence because i can't afford not to put points into a tank meelee build to fight greens, but if i can't buy gear from trader, and i can't craft my own stuff, and most of the loot boxes have garbage even with 3 points in lucky looter......

Generally I hope to find more levels 3,4 and 5 items in the POIs.

So far I find mainly level 1 and 2 items and very rarely level 6 items. But somehow I miss the levels 3 to 5 although I have lucky looter at 5.

 

[madmole]

I agree about red tea, good stuff. When I said "not thrive on food from dukes" I meant more along the lines of buy all the food and still easily afford other starter stuff he might want. Then continue to live off the machine and easily buy everything else he wants or needs which was where we were at before 17.2. I think we are on the same page.
The balance is better at least as far as I can tell, so far. Starting out, and perking for trading I was able to afford some decent stuff starter stuff, but had to work for it a bit and spend points which I see as pretty good balance wise.

I never bought better barter perks and I'm able to still earn plenty of dukes and buy most things I want.

 

[madmole]

Sure, it is allready nerfed into the ground, (and does that look like i encumber)

The change was painfull enough and we can discuss if it was too strong (what is not what i say)

Reducing the Perk again would be equal to remove the Traders completely.

(I allready consider if i would again start a vanilla game as trader class)

Thats why i ask only for a small (startgame aimed) moneymaker for people that start on a countryish map

Its called lumberjack. 1000 rock sells for quite a bit too.