PC Thank you to everyone who tuned in and took part in the A20 Dev Stream Series!

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Oh, oh, I forgot about Stamps. I'm really curious how Stamps figure into RWG.

Are Stamps entirely related to terrain? Stamps just change the surface/ground, right? You couldn't use a Stamp to place a cave, right?

Do Stamps and Tiles ever intermix, or are Stamps how the Wilderness is made? For instance, could a Tile's or POI's ground be made rough through some kind of noise or Stamp integration?

Is there a way to target Stamps at the edge of maps? For instance, if you wanted a world with a deep water harbor on one side of the map to support Tiles and POIs that had ships on them, could you do that? Similarly, is there a way to target Custom Cities and/or Districts to land next to a deep water edge of a map? (That is, instead of having ship POIs placed in the middle of an RWG world where they are land-locked, parked on a tiny lake.)

Oh, and the Wilderness...

Tiles don't apply to POIs being placed in the Wilderness, right? That is, a POI in the Wilderness could be larger than 150x150?

Can we somehow specify that a Wilderness POI is to be placed adjacent to a City Tile? If so, I doubt there's a way to make roads match up to the Tiles, unless there were some convention for matching up some standard Wilderness POI size, like a 300x300 Wilderness POI could conceivably match up with two 150x150 Tiles. Yeh, a 300x300 POI could be made into a big bundle of performance problems. I could see why that could be undesirable.

 
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Okay, combining everything into one bizarre scenario...

Let say a person wants to make a 16k map that represents an archipelago, like say the Florida Keys and Key West. They want water to be 75% of the map. Could stamps be used to make uninhabited islands? Maybe a custom Ocean biome? If Settlement Tiles were defined that any non-road edges were coastline, would I end up with a reasonable looking island city, or would rotations of the Tiles and things end up with little bits of coastline scattered throughout? What would roads between Settlements be like ... earthen causeways?

... okay yeh, I'm going to stop now. So many questions, so little time. :)

 
zztong said:
Okay, combining everything into one bizarre scenario...

Let say a person wants to make a 16k map that represents an archipelago, like say the Florida Keys and Key West. They want water to be 75% of the map. Could stamps be used to make uninhabited islands? Maybe a custom Ocean biome? If Settlement Tiles were defined that any non-road edges were coastline, would I end up with a reasonable looking island city, or would rotations of the Tiles and things end up with little bits of coastline scattered throughout? What would roads between Settlements be like ... earthen causeways?

... okay yeh, I'm going to stop now. So many questions, so little time. :)
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Isn't what you call a "tile" and a "stamp" actually the same thing? A city in A20 will be made out of many such 150x150 tiles that define spaces for POIs. (really not sure about this though)

The interesting question to me is whether tiles are used outside of cities (or if they will be) and whether 100% of the land will be made out of tiles eventually or just selected places.

 
@Kinyajuu , Will there be 16k x 16k maps and 32k x 32k maps in the future? Some of us wouldn't mind a warning of a 30 minute-1 hour generation if the result is 10.000 hours of endless Jen's boo... I mean POIs and exploration.

 
I am just looking forward to A20 dropping so the crew can jump back in and have a blast.  Fingers crossed it is happening soon!

 
meganoth said:
Isn't what you call a "tile" and a "stamp" actually the same thing? A city in A20 will be made out of many such 150x150 tiles that define spaces for POIs. (really not sure about this though)
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I don't think so, but I could be wrong. Tiles have been demonstrated to be built in the Prefab Editor, like POIs, and have Markers indicating where POIs and other things (Parts) can be placed. Stamps have been demonstrated to be things like Mountains and terrain features that can be applied to otherwise normal terrain to add something like a cliff or a mesa to the world. They are said to be height-map files of some RAW format. There is a "Stamps" folder in your game and it includes files like "Rivers." I think Stamps are what make the ground bumpy, where as a generator like KingGen uses some "noise" function. Or, I could be full of crap. Hence the questions.

 
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zztong said:
I don't think so, but I could be wrong. Tiles have been demonstrated to be built in the Prefab Editor, like POIs, and have Markers indicating where POIs and other things (Parts) can be placed. Stamps have been demonstrated to be things like Mountains and terrain features that can be applied to otherwise normal terrain to add something like a cliff or a mesa to the world. They are said to be height-map files of some RAW format. There is a "Stamps" folder in your game and it includes files like "Rivers." I think Stamps are what make the ground bumpy, where as a generator like KingGen uses some "noise" function. Or, I could be full of crap. Hence the questions.
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Yeah, you could be correct. I found Kinjayoo's post about the stamps again and while a tile without any spaces for POIs could very well have a cliff or a lake, mountains sound more like a "bigger" feature while city tiles are definitely all the same "small" size.

 
During some of the teaser videos of the tile system, we saw examples of the tiles rerolling POIs from their corresponding bucket of prefabs based on zoning type. It got me wondering:

Would it be possible to set up a system where when taking a new trader quest you could have an option to keep or 'reroll' the quest's prefab? (ideally, non-player selected from a list of valid candidates remaining in the tile's bucket for that size category)

Or was the RWG tile rerolling system only for testing tiles in the editor? (e.g. tile buckets only roll once during initial generation, generation system is not exposed, and POI performance considerations per tile and with adjacent tiles take precedence)

I recognize It's hardly realistic, but it could be a system that would allow people see all the hard work put into POIs without needing obscene map sizes or breaking the gameplay loop. Even if it's a developer mode option only, having the ability to keep or reroll POI's around you that you've already run a couple of times or maybe really enjoy but haven't seen might be a nice way to mix it up for folks who have put a lot of time on their gameworld.

Anyhoo, just a thought. Excited for the stream and seeing the new tile system, parts, and buckets in action.

 
meganoth said:
Yeah, you could be correct. I found Kinjayoo's post about the stamps again and while a tile without any spaces for POIs could very well have a cliff or a lake, mountains sound more like a "bigger" feature while city tiles are definitely all the same "small" size.
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Dev Stream Episode 4 at 16:41 they show some RWG stamps.

Here's a Dev Diary post by Kinyajuu that mentioned stamps:





There's a semi-related video on YouTube where Tallman Brad Gameplay discusses using Stamps to make a height-map for use with KingGen:

 
Scythe-Messiah said:
During some of the teaser videos of the tile system, we saw examples of the tiles rerolling POIs from their corresponding bucket of prefabs based on zoning type. It got me wondering:

<snipped>

Anyhoo, just a thought. Excited for the stream and seeing the new tile system, parts, and buckets in action.
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yes that was in the prefab editor and i wouldnt want the tile being reset if i was looting a different poi in that same tile. :)

 
I discovered last night the free version of "World Machine" can open the 7D2D raw files, which is what is found in the "Stamps" folder. I've never before used World Machine. It looks neat.

 
zztong said:
I discovered last night the free version of "World Machine" can open the 7D2D raw files, which is what is found in the "Stamps" folder. I've never before used World Machine. It looks neat.
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KingGen can covert the raw files to PNG as well

 
@Kinyajuu

RWG really looks awesome! Especially in the towns. Love that this is now easily moddable. This really feels like an actual town now! (although farms shouldn't be in the city :'D don't know where you live, but over here, that only happens in very small villages)

Very small idea, that came to me while watching the rwg-stream:

We need damaged concrete.
We already have "bloodstains" and "garbage".
Now what is missing is damaged concrete (I've seen it on a bridge in the stream, but I am not sure if that would work).

Slightly cracked concrete that has small grass sticking out of it. It would happen more frequently on the sides of the roads, but can also happen in the middle.

Because right now, all the buildings look AWESOME. Like... I believe this has been deserted for like... maybe years!
But the roads look like they have been refurbished yesterday.

So this would actually add A LOT.
(I know it is probably more complicated to implement in RWG, but I firmly believe it is worth the effort!)


 

 
Viktoriusiii said:
@Kinyajuu

RWG really looks awesome! Especially in the towns. Love that this is now easily moddable. This really feels like an actual town now! (although farms shouldn't be in the city :'D don't know where you live, but over here, that only happens in very small villages)

Very small idea, that came to me while watching the rwg-stream:

We need damaged concrete.
We already have "bloodstains" and "garbage".
Now what is missing is damaged concrete (I've seen it on a bridge in the stream, but I am not sure if that would work).

Slightly cracked concrete that has small grass sticking out of it. It would happen more frequently on the sides of the roads, but can also happen in the middle.

Because right now, all the buildings look AWESOME. Like... I believe this has been deserted for like... maybe years!
But the roads look like they have been refurbished yesterday.

So this would actually add A LOT.
(I know it is probably more complicated to implement in RWG, but I firmly believe it is worth the effort!)


 
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I live in Oklahoma. The outskirts of Tulsa and OKC are like this. Lots of farm land too valuable to turn into housing. So business try to set up where they can buy land and get it zoned. Afterwards, it ends up looking like this. Heck, there is a huge ranch in South Tulsa. :)
The art bits aren't really an RWG based thing.  The roads may get a grunge pass at some point just not at the moment. The level guys had to churn out a ton of POIs this round.

 
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Kinyajuu said:
I live in Oklahoma. The outskirts of Tulsa and OKC are like this. Lots of farm land too valuable to turn into housing. So business try to set up where they can buy land and get it zoned. Afterwards, it ends up looking like this. Heck, there is a huge ranch in South Tulsa. :)
The art bits aren't really an RWG based thing.  The roads may get a grunge pass at some point just not at the moment. The level guys had to churn out a ton of POIs this round.
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Thx. Well howdy partner :D
I didn't know that. Guess it only looks weird to a western european then.

What I meant was that sure, there is the arts guy that has to paint the cracked concrete...
but I mean as in placement on the street AND gras spawnchance on top.
So instead of
g = gras; s = sandy gravel;  c=concrete d = damaged concrete (chance for gras)
___________________________
gggggggggggggggggg
sssssssssssssssssssssssssss
ccccccccccccccccccccccc
ccccccccccccccccccccccc
sssssssssssssssssssssssssss
gggggggggggggggggg
___________________________

you can have
___________________________
gggggggggggggggggg
sssssssssssssssssssssssssss
cdcccccdccccccccccccdc
cccdccccccccccddcccccc
sssssssssssssssssssssssssss
gggggggggggggggggg
___________________________


Hard to explain, but I think you know what I mean.
A random chance that a concrete block is replaced by a concrete block, which has a chance to spawn small gras on it.

 
Viktoriusiii said:
Thx. Well howdy partner :D
I didn't know that. Guess it only looks weird to a western european then.

What I meant was that sure, there is the arts guy that has to paint the cracked concrete...
but I mean as in placement on the street AND gras spawnchance on top.
So instead of
g = gras; s = sandy gravel;  c=concrete d = damaged concrete (chance for gras)


Hard to explain, but I think you know what I mean.
 
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That makes good sense to me. each roadblock tile would have a chance to spawn as a damaged version of that tile. You could make the likely hood that a tile near it would be damaged be higher so long meandering sections might be damaged and a small single square would to give it a random feel. and a 1/3 chance of a grass growing up of 1/20 for a random crop.

 
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