Systems Tier List

Kyoji

Kyoji

Survivor
Everyone seems to have nuanced takes on things. For example I don't mind some aspects of the game but I think it's important to develop other things first. So I am curious as to what order of operations people would put various things.

Create your own tier list in order from most important to least important of things you want implemented/fixed.

You do not have to use this list. This is just a helpful reminder of some things you may include in your own list:
Parts Quality (0-600)
Jars (Water container alternative)
Canteen (Alternative water container alternative)
Fishing
Dynamic Weather
Legendary Weapons/Armor
Random Encounters/World Events
Bandits
Story Completion
Temperature
Wellness
Dynamic Nights (Full/Partial/New Moon)
Smell
Improved Farming (Hoe/Fertilizer)
Learn by Doing (Replacing Magazines)
More Quest Types
Trader Balancing
Quest Balancing
Armor Rework (No magical effects)
Zombie Body Loot (Loot corpses instead of loot bags)
Biome Progression
Storms
More Biomes / Sub-Biomes
More Survival Emphasis (water/food/scarcity)
Random Spawning (Spawn randomly on the map)
Animal Husbandry (Bees/etc)
More Zombies (Number of them spawning)
Zombie Variety (New types/models)
Modding Support (Steam Workshop)
Armor/Weapon Degradation
More Workstations
Armor Dyes
More Settings/Toggle Options
Reduced loot cap/Wider Loot Spread
Specific Loot Containers (Eg. Gun Safes offering guns)
Behemoth/World Boss Enemies
Stealth rebalance
Click to expand...


Here is my list, what is yours?
  1. Random Encounters/World Events - The single largest thing that could make a massive difference in replayability IMO. Allowing people to diverge from a predetermined path is nice. If I am on my way to a quest and I find a bandit chokepoint on the road with loot containers spread about if I can take them out it breaks up the quest spam.
  2. Temperature - I think this is a staple of good survival gameplay. Feeling cold/hot and needing to alleviate them adds complexity to the straightforward nature of looting. Seasons such as Spring/Summer/Fall/Winter with temperature ranges for each and temperature being random within that range on any given day would be added flair.
  3. More Biomes/Sub-Biomes - Giving more variety in the scenery would be nice. Plains, irradiated zones, etc. Tons of options to make the game look better and have exploration be more enjoyable.
  4. Parts Quality - I think parts quality would add a lot more gameplay to the end-game than legendary weapons. I think hunting for the parts you may want to make the perfect weapons is much better than random stats.
  5. Bandits - I think they are necessary for proper random world encounter/events to be truly realized and think that at the end of the day, while maybe not amazing in themselves, they can potentially add a lot with other mechanics. Would rate higher if combined, but as a standalone this is where I am at.
  6. Dynamic Nights - Like seasons and temperature I think variety is the spice of life and having Full Moon/Partial Moon/Hidden Moon nights with varying degrees of light adds some added challenge into the mix. Should I go out when visibility is much worse?
  7. Dynamic Weather - Fog/Rain/Thunderstorms/Light Snow/Heavy Snow/Heat Waves/Cloudy-Overcast all would be nice to see interact with temperature and other game systems. Imagine a dynamic night with little light and fog or a light snow turning into a heavy snow reducing visibility or movement speed.
  8. Modding Support - What the developers can't do themselves others can do for them. Only reason I have it this low is that I imagine modding support coming after a lot of game systems are done and I want the base game to be as good as it can before.
  9. More Quest Types - Defend the generator, secure the supply drop cache, etc. A more diverse set of quests will also help break up the monotony of questing.
  10. More Settings - I think adding more customizations on how to play the game is a good thing especially if it's easily done.
  11. Specific Loot Containers - I think it would be nice to find actual guns in gun safes. Military crates should offer higher grade military items be it cloth, armor, clothing, ammo or weapons. Make them more rare and harder to come by but I don't want a pipe pistol in my ultra rare military loot chests.
  12. Fishing - Why add jars back to the game to make water matter when you can just add fishing? I am sure there are plenty of reasons but I still prefer fishing. Another way of procuring meat rather than hunting and gives water value again.
  13. More Zombies - With the advent of better coding and ways to reduce lag I think it is time to re-add in some of the world life into the game. More zombies, specifically in cities would be a nice addition even if it's only a toggle. I think it's would be helpful for the base game to up the zombie count by at least 2-3 per area.
  14. Zombie Variety - Having more unique skins would be fine. I don't need them all to be special I just get tired of seeing the same skin with a different color for every 4th zombie encounter.
  15. Quest Balancing - It can get a bit boring and repetitive and I think giving some incentive to not doing quests would be nice. This would be much higher up but if we add some of the things listed above I think this will sort itself out.

There are other things I could add but I would say this is my top 15 list for things that I think would make the most impact for me anyway. I know I wouldn't mind seeing degradation as an option, random spawning as an option, survival scarcity options, a canteen or jar system that works, legendary weapons (if done right), smell (as it's better than feral sense), and armor rework as I hate magic armor nonsense, but then my list would be massive and even more annoying to read than it already is.
 
Kyoji said:
Everyone seems to have nuanced takes on things. For example I don't mind some aspects of the game but I think it's important to develop other things first. So I am curious as to what order of operations people would put various things.

Create your own tier list in order from most important to least important of things you want implemented/fixed.

You do not have to use this list. This is just a helpful reminder of some things you may include in your own list:



Here is my list, what is yours?
  1. Random Encounters/World Events - The single largest thing that could make a massive difference in replayability IMO. Allowing people to diverge from a predetermined path is nice. If I am on my way to a quest and I find a bandit chokepoint on the road with loot containers spread about if I can take them out it breaks up the quest spam.
  2. Temperature - I think this is a staple of good survival gameplay. Feeling cold/hot and needing to alleviate them adds complexity to the straightforward nature of looting. Seasons such as Spring/Summer/Fall/Winter with temperature ranges for each and temperature being random within that range on any given day would be added flair.
  3. More Biomes/Sub-Biomes - Giving more variety in the scenery would be nice. Plains, irradiated zones, etc. Tons of options to make the game look better and have exploration be more enjoyable.
  4. Parts Quality - I think parts quality would add a lot more gameplay to the end-game than legendary weapons. I think hunting for the parts you may want to make the perfect weapons is much better than random stats.
  5. Bandits - I think they are necessary for proper random world encounter/events to be truly realized and think that at the end of the day, while maybe not amazing in themselves, they can potentially add a lot with other mechanics. Would rate higher if combined, but as a standalone this is where I am at.
  6. Dynamic Nights - Like seasons and temperature I think variety is the spice of life and having Full Moon/Partial Moon/Hidden Moon nights with varying degrees of light adds some added challenge into the mix. Should I go out when visibility is much worse?
  7. Dynamic Weather - Fog/Rain/Thunderstorms/Light Snow/Heavy Snow/Heat Waves/Cloudy-Overcast all would be nice to see interact with temperature and other game systems. Imagine a dynamic night with little light and fog or a light snow turning into a heavy snow reducing visibility or movement speed.
  8. Modding Support - What the developers can't do themselves others can do for them. Only reason I have it this low is that I imagine modding support coming after a lot of game systems are done and I want the base game to be as good as it can before.
  9. More Quest Types - Defend the generator, secure the supply drop cache, etc. A more diverse set of quests will also help break up the monotony of questing.
  10. More Settings - I think adding more customizations on how to play the game is a good thing especially if it's easily done.
  11. Specific Loot Containers - I think it would be nice to find actual guns in gun safes. Military crates should offer higher grade military items be it cloth, armor, clothing, ammo or weapons. Make them more rare and harder to come by but I don't want a pipe pistol in my ultra rare military loot chests.
  12. Fishing - Why add jars back to the game to make water matter when you can just add fishing? I am sure there are plenty of reasons but I still prefer fishing. Another way of procuring meat rather than hunting and gives water value again.
  13. More Zombies - With the advent of better coding and ways to reduce lag I think it is time to re-add in some of the world life into the game. More zombies, specifically in cities would be a nice addition even if it's only a toggle. I think it's would be helpful for the base game to up the zombie count by at least 2-3 per area.
  14. Zombie Variety - Having more unique skins would be fine. I don't need them all to be special I just get tired of seeing the same skin with a different color for every 4th zombie encounter.
  15. Quest Balancing - It can get a bit boring and repetitive and I think giving some incentive to not doing quests would be nice. This would be much higher up but if we add some of the things listed above I think this will sort itself out.

There are other things I could add but I would say this is my top 15 list for things that I think would make the most impact for me anyway. I know I wouldn't mind seeing degradation as an option, random spawning as an option, survival scarcity options, a canteen or jar system that works, legendary weapons (if done right), smell (as it's better than feral sense), and armor rework as I hate magic armor nonsense, but then my list would be massive and even more annoying to read than it already is.
Click to expand...
You have a couple blanks in there... those must be for stealth rebalance? ;)

I don't really feel like spending time sorting a list, but here are the only things from your unsorted list that I'd even be interested in...
  • Legendary items
  • Events
  • Fishing (only if done well.... a lot of games that add a fishing minigame do it so bad that I want to avoid it). This is also not something I care about. It is just something I wouldn't mind seeing.
  • Bandits ???? I'm not very hopeful that they'll improve the game, but I wouldn't mind being proven wrong.
  • Story ???? I wouldn't mind knowing the background, but a story is a one-time thing for me and then I'll never do it again. A game like this, where it's intended to be replayed many times, is one where any story (lore) is best done through finding random lore notes or books or whatever rather than having any kind of real story progression, imo.
  • Temperature ?? Only if done in a way that doesn't require me to change armor/clothing/mods between biomes or elevations.
  • Dynamic weather ?? Not a bad thing, but not too important to me.
  • Dynamic nights ?? Not a bad thing, but not too important to me.
  • More quest types
  • Balancing of any kind is good
  • More biomes and sub-biomes
  • Animal husbandry ?? They are adding it and that's fine, but I don't really care about it. Honey is about the only thing that I'd find at all helpful, and that's just so I don't have to spend time gathering honey.
  • Zombie variety is nice, but it's not that important to me.
  • Steam Workshop
  • Armor Dyes
  • More settings, mainly so people who want all these changes that I don't want can do so without affecting my game
The rest of the items in that list aren't things I am even remotely interested in, and in many cases are things I absolutely don't want.
 
Hmm.. not taking this too seriously, but..

1. Take out water from POIs (food as well, but less of an importance). Whatever you balance it with, will be better than what we have. Preferably delete the Dew Collector in the process.
2. Introduce randomness to looting. Preferably logically. A gun box Always has a chance of any gun, even if low. A locked gun safe a little higher of a chance.
(1 + 2 = you've now taken out the main Forced-to-POI-spam mechanic, and introduced a lured-to-loot mechanic, which is a Lured-to-POIs mechanic.)

3. Outside of a tutorial mode, Remove all 3D-world overlay markers (like quest trackers on the horizon). If you think you need a tutorial mode, implement one, separately.
(We will be thankful for having to look at the world to navigate to places. That alone makes moving-to-a-quest an interaction with the world instead of "follow the yellow dot for 3 minutes", while running into things and getting annoyed by the world)

I'm getting depressed thinking of how wrong we're heading, so I guess I'll leave it at that ...
 
theFlu said:
Hmm.. not taking this too seriously, but..

1. Take out water from POIs (food as well, but less of an importance). Whatever you balance it with, will be better than what we have. Preferably delete the Dew Collector in the process.
2. Introduce randomness to looting. Preferably logically. A gun box Always has a chance of any gun, even if low. A locked gun safe a little higher of a chance.
(1 + 2 = you've now taken out the main Forced-to-POI-spam mechanic, and introduced a lured-to-loot mechanic, which is a Lured-to-POIs mechanic.)

3. Outside of a tutorial mode, Remove all 3D-world overlay markers (like quest trackers on the horizon). If you think you need a tutorial mode, implement one, separately.
(We will be thankful for having to look at the world to navigate to places. That alone makes moving-to-a-quest an interaction with the world instead of "follow the yellow dot for 3 minutes", while running into things and getting annoyed by the world)

I'm getting depressed thinking of how wrong we're heading, so I guess I'll leave it at that ...
Click to expand...

I usually find that you want vastly different things from this game than I do, but in this case I really like these suggestions.

For #3, would you also remove markers from the compass? I would. Without removing them from the compass you just end up pulling the player's eyes compass-ward. The only exception for me would be final zombie markers during clear missions--if you follow the prescribed course then these aren't really necessary, but they become key in larger POIs if you diverge from the prescribed course.
 
Sapient6 said:
I usually find that you want vastly different things from this game than I do, but in this case I really like these suggestions.
Click to expand...
Hmm, from what I can remember; I don't usually hate your ideas, but you "play along" with the existing nonsense more than I'm willing to. But honestly, I may be mixing people a lot, not like I keep track :)

Yeah, compass markers, the less the better. Looking for your bike in the grass is fine if you didn't bother looking where you left it. Final zed markers.. optimally no, but when the POIs aren't easy to clear, like a shotgun messiah factory; sure, some mechanic is needed. A more immersive solution would be a "local map" with scribbles for checked stuff, but that'd be a whole ordeal to implement. The 3 orange compass markers aren't great, but acceptable. Would be better with a world mechanic, ofc, like, instead of the markers, wake them up and make them highly aggressive; you'll find them by their sounds.

The less you play the UI, the better.
 
Problem I see with removing quest trackers is that you won't know where to dig and may accidentally go out of bounds. Plus it would be terrible searching for a POI that may be a long ways away. It wouldn't be bad in another game, but here the cities are dense and the draw distance isn't large enough to really have people go searching for specific buildings. Like which one is Judie Witch again? For newer players it would be near impossible without a major overhaul and to make matters worse the dungeon POI design on some of the buildings make getting started somewhat difficult such as ascending a wall trellis. Also, finding the last zombie markers also make anything about T3 doable. T5 would be so annoying to do and would also directly clash with them not making POIs so linear.
 
Kyoji said:
Problem I see with removing quest trackers is that you won't know where to dig and may accidentally go out of bounds.
Click to expand...
I'm not proposing to remove the map markers, just the icons covering the world. For a lore explanation, you have a paper map, and Rekkers stamped it with his vaseline'd thumb print. You can implement it like a glob of vaseline, or a exclamation point, that part doesn't really matter. The icons to beeline to take your attention away from the world, and make the world into a blockage between you and your goal.

I'd rather have to live in it (like to look for food and water) than just be annoyed by it when it gets in the way. It's the unique selling point of this game, random, completely modifiable world; and it's hidden away by "utilities".
 
Kyoji said:
Random Encounters/World Events - The single largest thing that could make a massive difference in replayability IMO. Allowing people to diverge from a predetermined path is nice. If I am on my way to a quest and I find a bandit chokepoint on the road with loot containers spread about if I can take them out it breaks up the quest spam.
Click to expand...
I'm still racking my brain on how this could actually work. You're either likely to miss them entirely if they make sure to have them spawn outside of your vision, or you have them spawn right in front of you out of nowhere. It's like wandering hordes. Unless you stay still in one place, you rarely ever actually encounter them.

I guess they could have a message flash on the screen about something happening, but even then, you'd potentially end up searching a relatively large area to find the event if you didn't go the right direction in the first place.
 
Vaeliorin said:
I'm still racking my brain on how this could actually work. You're either likely to miss them entirely if they make sure to have them spawn outside of your vision, or you have them spawn right in front of you out of nowhere. It's like wandering hordes. Unless you stay still in one place, you rarely ever actually encounter them.

I guess they could have a message flash on the screen about something happening, but even then, you'd potentially end up searching a relatively large area to find the event if you didn't go the right direction in the first place.
Click to expand...
Supply drops work as you have smoke trails so some combination of sight and sound would be fine.

Ideally they could be left in the game and saved with the game and just have a feature where a new event can't spawn within "x" kilometers from another to prevent encounters stacking and have them unable to spawn within "x" distance from player base blocks to prevent the encounters from spawning too close to your base

Much like any game aspect you don't have to encounter everything but if you do it's a nice surprise as it's not a quest but a random event. So you lose nothing if you don't participate.

The developers work on flatspot coding is already showing promise from what was said to identify flat spots of land to potentially spawn in things and we have encounters listed on the 3.0 roadmap so hopefully they make it dynamic and refreshing to where it breaks up the quest grind.
 
Kyoji said:
Supply drops work as you have smoke trails so some combination of sight and sound would be fine.

Ideally they could be left in the game and saved with the game and just have a feature where a new event can't spawn within "x" kilometers from another to prevent encounters stacking and have them unable to spawn within "x" distance from player base blocks to prevent the encounters from spawning too close to your base

Much like any game aspect you don't have to encounter everything but if you do it's a nice surprise as it's not a quest but a random event. So you lose nothing if you don't participate.

The developers work on flatspot coding is already showing promise from what was said to identify flat spots of land to potentially spawn in things and we have encounters listed on the 3.0 roadmap so hopefully they make it dynamic and refreshing to where it breaks up the quest grind.
Click to expand...
Supply drops occur at a specific time, so you know to look for them.

They'd need to have a continuous loop of the sight and sound for that to work particularly well. I'm not going to see something that occurs to my back left, and if the sight/sound cues are gone when I'm going back through the area, I'm unlikely to find the encounter then either.

Some, a helicopter crash like you've mentioned, for example, would make sense to be loud and noticeable. But the bandit checkpoint you mention would probably want to keep the sound down, so as to prevent people from avoiding it.

I would really hope that such a system could be implemented in a good way, I'm just doubtful about how it would actually work out. Like I said, random hordes sound like a good idea too, but the way they work in practice I usually don't encounter more than one every couple in game weeks.
 
Vaeliorin said:
Supply drops occur at a specific time, so you know to look for them.

They'd need to have a continuous loop of the sight and sound for that to work particularly well. I'm not going to see something that occurs to my back left, and if the sight/sound cues are gone when I'm going back through the area, I'm unlikely to find the encounter then either.

Some, a helicopter crash like you've mentioned, for example, would make sense to be loud and noticeable. But the bandit checkpoint you mention would probably want to keep the sound down, so as to prevent people from avoiding it.

I would really hope that such a system could be implemented in a good way, I'm just doubtful about how it would actually work out. Like I said, random hordes sound like a good idea too, but the way they work in practice I usually don't encounter more than one every couple in game weeks.
Click to expand...
I never pay attention to the drop time. I just either see smoke or see the map marker.

Even if it's just having them spawn in across the map it would be better than not having them. You could think of them as parts such as a coffee stand or tent you may find out in the wilderness.

The key is to dynamically generate them and not have them directly attached to a tile to where they become too predictable.

With that you don't have to always encounter them just as you might never encounter certain POIs.
 
Dynamic events.. I'm kinda curious what exactly are they planning. Will they spawn in permanent block changes with them? An old world will be cluttered with old events .. spawn in only entities? That's possible, but now they're mostly going to be random groups of bandits hanging around in the woods with no rhyme or reason.. and traveling merchants, of course!

With a massive UI-warning of having one spawned in of course, wouldn't want you to miss it! Exclamation points in the map, yellow arrows on the sides of your screen to point to them, an "Are you sure you want to leave the area?" -prompt when you're about to go out of render distance ... :)

I kid, but do I?
 
-Most wanted-

Learn by Doing (Replacing Magazines) - Combination of LBD and found schematics
Parts Quality (0-600) - Bring back part quality as well
Armor/Weapon Degradation
Armor Rework (No magical effects) - Get rid of potions(candy) while you're at it
Improved Farming (Hoe/Fertilizer)
Zombie Body Loot (Loot corpses instead of loot bags) - Clearing the bodies after horde night was fun
More Zombies (Number of them spawning) - Outside of POI's, the world seems dead. I want it to seem undead.
Zombie Variety (New types/models)
More Workstations
Stealth rebalance - Or get rid of the sleeper volume mechanic
Smell
Temperature
More Biomes / Sub-Biomes
Armor Dyes
Random Encounters/World Events
More Settings/Toggle Options
Specific Loot Containers (Eg. Gun Safes offering guns)
Jars (Water container alternative) - Would also like cans and ability to melt snow

-Would be nice-
Fishing
Dynamic Weather
More Quest Types
Trader Balancing
Quest Balancing
More Survival Emphasis (water/food/scarcity)
Animal Husbandry (Bees/etc)
Behemoth/World Boss Enemies

-Eh, if you get around to it-

Canteen (Alternative water container alternative)
Wellness
Dynamic Nights (Full/Partial/New Moon)
Biome Progression
Storms
Random Spawning (Spawn randomly on the map)
Modding Support (Steam Workshop) - On PC, so I can already use mods
Reduced loot cap/Wider Loot Spread

-Not interested-
Legendary Weapons/Armor
Bandits - I'm here for the zombies
Story Completion
 
Jeraal said:
-Most wanted-

Learn by Doing (Replacing Magazines) - Combination of LBD and found schematics
Parts Quality (0-600) - Bring back part quality as well
Armor/Weapon Degradation
Armor Rework (No magical effects) - Get rid of potions(candy) while you're at it
Improved Farming (Hoe/Fertilizer)
Zombie Body Loot (Loot corpses instead of loot bags) - Clearing the bodies after horde night was fun
More Zombies (Number of them spawning) - Outside of POI's, the world seems dead. I want it to seem undead.
Zombie Variety (New types/models)
More Workstations
Stealth rebalance - Or get rid of the sleeper volume mechanic
Smell
Temperature
More Biomes / Sub-Biomes
Armor Dyes
Random Encounters/World Events
More Settings/Toggle Options
Specific Loot Containers (Eg. Gun Safes offering guns)
Jars (Water container alternative) - Would also like cans and ability to melt snow

-Would be nice-
Fishing
Dynamic Weather
More Quest Types
Trader Balancing
Quest Balancing
More Survival Emphasis (water/food/scarcity)
Animal Husbandry (Bees/etc)
Behemoth/World Boss Enemies

-Eh, if you get around to it-

Canteen (Alternative water container alternative)
Wellness
Dynamic Nights (Full/Partial/New Moon)
Biome Progression
Storms
Random Spawning (Spawn randomly on the map)
Modding Support (Steam Workshop) - On PC, so I can already use mods
Reduced loot cap/Wider Loot Spread

-Not interested-
Legendary Weapons/Armor
Bandits - I'm here for the zombies
Story Completion
Click to expand...
+
 
I misread "Parts Quality (0-600)" as just quality 0-600. Which is why I added "- Bring back part quality as well".

Is there no edit function, or am I blind?
 
theFlu said:
I'm not proposing to remove the map markers, just the icons covering the world. For a lore explanation, you have a paper map, and Rekkers stamped it with his vaseline'd thumb print. You can implement it like a glob of vaseline, or a exclamation point, that part doesn't really matter. The icons to beeline to take your attention away from the world, and make the world into a blockage between you and your goal.

I'd rather have to live in it (like to look for food and water) than just be annoyed by it when it gets in the way. It's the unique selling point of this game, random, completely modifiable world; and it's hidden away by "utilities".
Click to expand...
I think this could be okay as a game option. I don't think it should be default. I'm not gong to guess a percentage, but I am sure a lot of players wouldn't want to have to keep going back and forth looking at the map to try and find the specific POI they are looking for, especially if they don't know what the POI looks like.
 
Riamus said:
especially if they don't know what the POI looks like.
Click to expand...
Shure. I'd like the game to make players look at the world. Maybe learn some IRL navigation skills while at it. "Point your cursor at the exclamation point, crash into lead nodes and swear under you breath" seems way too common in at least the youtuber population. Doesn't help when the marker itself blocks vision.. :)

Instead of "open map, check for a road to follow, drive in the world", you know. "Turn left at that place, was it water works..?"
 
theFlu said:
Shure. I'd like the game to make players look at the world. Maybe learn some IRL navigation skills while at it. "Point your cursor at the exclamation point, crash into lead nodes and swear under you breath" seems way too common in at least the youtuber population. Doesn't help when the marker itself blocks vision.. :)

Instead of "open map, check for a road to follow, drive in the world", you know. "Turn left at that place, was it water works..?"
Click to expand...
You: "Where is this place?"
Trader: "Alright, what you wanna do is..."
 
Jeraal said:
You: "Where is this place?"
Trader: "Alright, what you wanna do is..."
Click to expand...
That wouldn't be a pimp dream but a pipe dream. The effort needed to make that work would be quite high if I had to wager a guess. There are easier ways to encourage exploration.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top