ivailogeimara
New member
I see a lot of people are complaining about the new level gated skill system and I kind of agree to some extend.
I like most of the perks. What I have problem is the main ones that are level gated (Strength, Agility, Fortitude, Perception, Intellect). I think instead of level gating them they shouldn't be leveled by spending points on them but rather by doing things related to them (and it should not allow spending points on them at all). Every other perk/skill will be leveled the same way as they are leveled now (by spending points on them acquired by general leveling)
For example:
Strength should be leveled by chopping trees, mining, fighting zombies (with melee weapons), destroying stuff. Each thing should give different amount of strength_XP (preferably specified in a XML file for modding purposes). For example punching grass, trees, etc. should give little to no strength_XP; meleeing zombies with melee weapons should give less strength_XP than chopping trees/mining with the appropriate tool; using better tools/weapons (better mods) should give more strength_XP. Strength_XP should be awarded on a hit and not on a complete action (killing zombie, fully chopping out a tree).
Agility should be leveled by walking, running (more agility), jumping (even more, but of course it drains a lot stamina), climbing ladders. Each action should give different amount of agility.
Fortitude. Now this is kinda hard. Looking at the skills in that tree maybe it should be leveled by multiple things. Taking damage by zombies (not really sure about that), hunting and skinning animals, harvesting crops (it's different from chopping trees / punching grass).
The perception tree is all over the place. The first 3 perks shouldn't be there at all (the gun modding system should take care of fire rate / reload speed). Looking at the rest of the Marksmanship perks I think perception_XP should be leveled by using guns. Looting perks should be in a different tree altogether IMO.
Intellect is the tricky part. This should be leveled by crafting items and disassembling stuff. BUT that way we're getting into the spawn crafting problem. My proposed solution for this is "Craft Timers". When you craft an item a timer should start. If the timer is running crafting the same item will not award you intellect_XP. There should also be system in place that detects if you craft a small amount of different items in a row (like 1-5 instances different items) because I could craft different wood items and "cheat" the craft timers. Once I go over all the wood items the timer may have expired. So if you craft small amounts of different items it should take your intellect_XP from the last few crafted items and apply you de-buff where you don't get intellect_XP from any crafting for certain amount of time (like 30min IRL). It would also be nice if these "craft timers" are exposed in a XML file (recipes.xml for each recipe). Eventually some recepes should stop giving intellect_XP at all (for example crafting stone tools with 4/10 intellect (the amount needed for forge).
I think that would be far better and interesting system than some generic level gating.
Because at the moment if you want to craft better items the answer is "farm zombies". If you want to be stronger - "farm zombies". If you want to be better farmer (crops) - (you guessed it) "farm zombies". It's not really an interesting system. And I know that doing other things gives you XP too but farming zombies is the best way to level. It just doesn't make sense why farming zombies allows you to craft better items. And even if only level by crafting stuff and building that should not make me stronger (and thus killing zombies easier). That's really a bland and generic system. My system will force you to do different things if you want to be good at everything. Also if you play multiplayer it allows for distribution of the workforce. One person can take care of building/gathering resources/farming(planting food), other person can go looting towns, fighting more zombies obviously.And you would need each other for the different skills everyone have. Because now if you want to mainly gather resources and preparing the base for the next horde you don't have enough XP to level crafting skills. The people that go looting towns and killing zombies have way more levels and basically are forced to take every skill because they can't wait for people that take care of resource gathering/building/crafting to level up.
Don't forget 7 Days to Die is not just a RPG game that happens to have survival elements and zombies, it's zombie SURVIVAL RPG game. Some systems that work well in other RPG games don't necessarily work that well here. Farming mobs for leveling may work for a lot of other RPG games but I don't think it works that well for 7 Days to Die.
Some people are completely against the new skill system while others are completely for it.
Overall I think the current skill system is a step in the right direction but it needs a little tweaking. I think TFP along the way of making A17 forgot that 7 Days to Die is not just standard RPG game and were so focused of remaking the old skill system that they didn't thought of some of the good elements of it.
I don't think the old system was better. In fact I like the new system way more. I just think that perks should be gated behind generic level and instead be gated behind your actions
Edit: In post #4 I clarify more some things a bit
I like most of the perks. What I have problem is the main ones that are level gated (Strength, Agility, Fortitude, Perception, Intellect). I think instead of level gating them they shouldn't be leveled by spending points on them but rather by doing things related to them (and it should not allow spending points on them at all). Every other perk/skill will be leveled the same way as they are leveled now (by spending points on them acquired by general leveling)
For example:
Strength should be leveled by chopping trees, mining, fighting zombies (with melee weapons), destroying stuff. Each thing should give different amount of strength_XP (preferably specified in a XML file for modding purposes). For example punching grass, trees, etc. should give little to no strength_XP; meleeing zombies with melee weapons should give less strength_XP than chopping trees/mining with the appropriate tool; using better tools/weapons (better mods) should give more strength_XP. Strength_XP should be awarded on a hit and not on a complete action (killing zombie, fully chopping out a tree).
Agility should be leveled by walking, running (more agility), jumping (even more, but of course it drains a lot stamina), climbing ladders. Each action should give different amount of agility.
Fortitude. Now this is kinda hard. Looking at the skills in that tree maybe it should be leveled by multiple things. Taking damage by zombies (not really sure about that), hunting and skinning animals, harvesting crops (it's different from chopping trees / punching grass).
The perception tree is all over the place. The first 3 perks shouldn't be there at all (the gun modding system should take care of fire rate / reload speed). Looking at the rest of the Marksmanship perks I think perception_XP should be leveled by using guns. Looting perks should be in a different tree altogether IMO.
Intellect is the tricky part. This should be leveled by crafting items and disassembling stuff. BUT that way we're getting into the spawn crafting problem. My proposed solution for this is "Craft Timers". When you craft an item a timer should start. If the timer is running crafting the same item will not award you intellect_XP. There should also be system in place that detects if you craft a small amount of different items in a row (like 1-5 instances different items) because I could craft different wood items and "cheat" the craft timers. Once I go over all the wood items the timer may have expired. So if you craft small amounts of different items it should take your intellect_XP from the last few crafted items and apply you de-buff where you don't get intellect_XP from any crafting for certain amount of time (like 30min IRL). It would also be nice if these "craft timers" are exposed in a XML file (recipes.xml for each recipe). Eventually some recepes should stop giving intellect_XP at all (for example crafting stone tools with 4/10 intellect (the amount needed for forge).
I think that would be far better and interesting system than some generic level gating.
Because at the moment if you want to craft better items the answer is "farm zombies". If you want to be stronger - "farm zombies". If you want to be better farmer (crops) - (you guessed it) "farm zombies". It's not really an interesting system. And I know that doing other things gives you XP too but farming zombies is the best way to level. It just doesn't make sense why farming zombies allows you to craft better items. And even if only level by crafting stuff and building that should not make me stronger (and thus killing zombies easier). That's really a bland and generic system. My system will force you to do different things if you want to be good at everything. Also if you play multiplayer it allows for distribution of the workforce. One person can take care of building/gathering resources/farming(planting food), other person can go looting towns, fighting more zombies obviously.And you would need each other for the different skills everyone have. Because now if you want to mainly gather resources and preparing the base for the next horde you don't have enough XP to level crafting skills. The people that go looting towns and killing zombies have way more levels and basically are forced to take every skill because they can't wait for people that take care of resource gathering/building/crafting to level up.
Don't forget 7 Days to Die is not just a RPG game that happens to have survival elements and zombies, it's zombie SURVIVAL RPG game. Some systems that work well in other RPG games don't necessarily work that well here. Farming mobs for leveling may work for a lot of other RPG games but I don't think it works that well for 7 Days to Die.
Some people are completely against the new skill system while others are completely for it.
Overall I think the current skill system is a step in the right direction but it needs a little tweaking. I think TFP along the way of making A17 forgot that 7 Days to Die is not just standard RPG game and were so focused of remaking the old skill system that they didn't thought of some of the good elements of it.
I don't think the old system was better. In fact I like the new system way more. I just think that perks should be gated behind generic level and instead be gated behind your actions
Edit: In post #4 I clarify more some things a bit
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