PC Steam reviews - I kinda figured

Weird. I often found myself spending nights digging down to bedrock just because . ... It's night. What else am I going to do? Run out and brawl with a bunch of zombies and a wooden club who run and now run WAY better than I in the first 7 days? And I'd end up with a great chunk of stone to work with and could spend my days resource gathering and building.
I often found myself at bedrock with a stone axe or close to it. Though later play throughs I made I'd spend the first 3 days looking for sand to build over. Just made things easier overall.
Click to expand...
Fear the Nights is a game where you are forced to hide at nights as part of its game design. Once you are established and have a foot hold you can start venturing out. Its ok to play the way you do. People shouldn't be able to run around willy nilly at night on day 1 anyway. Or if its an issue turn on walk only. I have done it and im not ashamed lol

 
Yes but you are so much faster than them that you easily get beyond the point where they can see you and then all you need to do is crouch and walk quietly five blocks to your left and they will never find you (non bloodmoon night obviously). You don't have to run until you run out of stamina. Zeds are incredibly blind at night. When they chase you they are not seeing you. They are running to the last place they heard you make noise.
Click to expand...
You sir have had very different experiences than I in 7D2D. I bolt and sure break away from zombie #1. But as I said, I inevitably slam into zombies 2-20 and at some point I'm breathless and dead.

- - - Updated - - -

Fear the Nights is a game where you are forced to hide at nights as part of its game design. Once you are established and have a foot hold you can start venturing out. Its ok to play the way you do. People shouldn't be able to run around willy nilly at night on day 1 anyway. Or if its an issue turn on walk only. I have done it and im not ashamed lol
Click to expand...
Lol. Way to own your joy homie! :-D

Nah. I do like the risk. And I'm fine being a coward at night. Seems appropriate. Humans have feared the night ever since the invention of darkness.

And in a zombie apocalypse, I'm sure that night fear is going to be even more well founded.

 
Pure examples distort reality imo and I'll stick to it. Especially in my software development world. The day anything behaves out in a pure way is the day I'm doing a demo with fake everything behind the scenes.
The soul of Creative completely missed one of the more important phrases in that very definition.

"Minimal character limitations".

Which is not at all a creative mode. With zero limitations.

With minimal character limitations implies some limitations actually exist. Creative Mode has none.
Click to expand...
Agree to disagree then. I'm not going to keep arguing this point as I believe I made it well enough. Self-imposed limitations ARE minimal limitations. You can play the game normally with creative enabled and never use it if you choose not to or to only use it minimally or to use it extensively as you choose.

Last time: The developers consider creative mode to be the sandbox mode of the game. That is THEIR definition. People want better communication to know the mind of the devs. You're Welcome.

 
Agree to disagree then. I'm not going to keep arguing this point as I believe I made it well enough. Self-imposed limitations ARE minimal limitations. You can play the game normally with creative enabled and never use it if you choose not to or to only use it minimally or to use it extensively as you choose.
Last time: The developers consider creative mode to be the sandbox mode of the game. That is THEIR definition. People want better communication to know the mind of the devs. You're Welcome.
Click to expand...
Roland... Man... I do have respect for ya. But that is one of the biggest loads of crap I've seen you write.

Self-Imposed Limitations MAY be minimal limitations. However Self-Imposed limitations in no way define the "mode" of a game. Which seems to be what you're implying.

And if that's right, then we're also implying that on a PVE server, I can simply run around and club people, whether it kills them or not, the game is now a PVP Mode. No. It's not. You're just running around clubbing people and being annoying. You're not, in anyway, in a PVP mode because you've imposed a rule to your self that you can and must now club people... No. It doesn't work like that.

Though... I don't even know why we were arguing about this. I already said I consider 7D2D vanilla to be a sandbox game. *shrug*. Hell. I'm a step in front of your own opinion in having to use Creative for Sandbox Mode.

Considering the Kickstarter stated the game had all of these elements, I thought we were all relatively good on the front. Just all wanted tweaks. But all this leads me to believe that 7D2D would be better off, as usual, implementing more game play altering options. Then have a preset adjuster that tweaks those options. Vanilla Mode, Sandbox Mode, FPS Mode would be the options that come to mind.

Vanilla Mode for TPF's ideals.

Sandbox Mode with less emphasis on stamina drain during resource collection (stamina slider option gets lowered) and less zombie spawns (max zombies drop a bit). Maybe digging zombies turned off.

FPS Mode with much less emphasis on stamina drain and more zombie spawns. Maybe an option that literally removes tools and makes all terrain voxels invulnerable.

I'm sure other tweaks could go into all that but you get the idea. Would SERIOUSLY help resolve issues with multiple camps which this game just naturally generates. 7D2D can't help but have a wide variety of player types. So rather than having them all be pissed all the time, set'em up yo.

 
Except I'm not talking about THESE changes specifically. I'm talking about whatever 7 Days to Die eventually turns into. I might be one of those who turns to modding. I will for A17 if level gates remain. You are missing the point of my post in an attempt to attempt a zinger. If you weren't so intent on teaching Roland a lesson you would have seen that my post isn't even about A17. It is about an attitude about modding.
I'm not saying people who don't like A17 are small minded. I'm saying that people who look at modding as fixing something and compensating for incompetent developers is small minded. If TFP decide to go back LBD in A18 I'll understand that there are people who really find that the most entertaining way to play. If I decide to mod that out I won't post that I'm fixing the developer's mistake. I'll simply post that I am changing the game to align with my own preferences.
Click to expand...
I'm not trying to zing you. I'm reconciling your choice of language with your earlier query as to why people think you like the changes. I've been in a similar position as you before and you're falling into the trap where you're subconsciously perceiving everyone as if they are circling wolves and you must fight them all at once. People are mad, some of that anger naturally comes your way but outside of a few misguided folks, I don't think much of it is coming at you personally.

I am trying to reach you a lesson but not the one you think I am. In your position it's neither productive nor helpful to the points you're trying to make, to reply with hastily crafted, emotional comments that further incite your opposition. This is actually in PR 101. Your point gets lost in the emotion and people make assumptions about what you're saying.

This is why people think you like the changes in A17.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I enjoy the early game because it is more challenging to survive fighting zombies, clearing POIs, and defending on blood moon as a vulnerable character.
It’s not that I enjoy hours of hitting trees and rock with a stone axe. That isn’t fun at all but then again I don’t do that. I harvest only what I need and in the beginning my needs are smaller because I haven’t yet reached the point in progression to be wanting to harvest full stacks of wood, Stone, Clay, and Ore.

As soon as you level up to a point where you bringing in tons of resources for much less effort you now have the means and time to create much safer bases, armor, and weapons which in turn make the challenge of exploring and clearing POIs a cakewalk and blood moons negligible and then the game really does feel repetitive.

Now maybe there are people who really do like to tunnel down to bedrock using their tier one stone axe but not I. I would never start a project like that until I had progressed to the point where it is fun to do so. I just don’t want that progression to last a couple of days or as Wolfy was saying—for the game to begin at that point.

I agree that there is no challenge to hitting a rock 50 times vs 3 times and if you isolate that one activity and call that the early game then I agree with the detractors. But looking at mining in isolation and calling that the early game is a phenomenally skewed thing to do.

All anyone needs to do is change the number of points they get from starter quest and it solves all differences of opinion. Take 20 points instead of 4 and you can start out at a higher baseline. It is one simple edit.

It is clear that different people have fun in different ways. The only difference seems to be the inability of some people to comprehend that the universe actually is more diverse than themselves. You can spot this when they express confusion over how the devs made their decisions, assume that others can’t possibly like things they don’t so must be fanbois.
Click to expand...
That makes sense. I have been playing the right way then. I do the same thing, no building till iron tools. I can live with that.

Thing that makes it feel so much worse is the restarts. But can't be helped, I get it. It just inflates the feeling of grind to do it over and over.

 
Yeah I just don't get how some people watched the trailers/read the description on the store and then played the game expecting zombies to be an optional mini-game and have the ability to safely wander the world, looting and building pretty-buildings and expect zombies to not destroy their 'work of art' because they're roleplaying something that the game didn't intend them to do -- then getting mad claiming they're

"destroying the game because I can't roleplay Bob the Builder - Zombie sympathizer!"

I guess since it's too hard to select Creative Mode -- as Roland said, the option they made for sandbox -- they should have an option in the main menu: "New Game" and "Casual Roleplaying(replace the name with something that makes more sense lol)". New Game is as the game was intended to be, a grueling game where you can utilize the whole world to survive zombies who want to kill you/destroy your base - no matter where you are. Casual Roleplaying would just replace Creative Mode... since... I guess that's an option that's forbode by people who want it. Zombies either don't exist or just slowly walk around and only attack when you want 'em to, and no sleepers or anything, no leveling all perks unlocked, just give 'em the casual world so they shush bashing the game lol.

 
Roland... Man... I do have respect for ya. But that is one of the biggest loads of crap I've seen you write.
Self-Imposed Limitations MAY be minimal limitations. However Self-Imposed limitations in no way define the "mode" of a game. Which seems to be what you're implying.

And if that's right, then we're also implying that on a PVE server, I can simply run around and club people, whether it kills them or not, the game is now a PVP Mode. No. It's not. You're just running around clubbing people and being annoying. You're not, in anyway, in a PVP mode because you've imposed a rule to your self that you can and must now club people... No. It doesn't work like that.

Though... I don't even know why we were arguing about this. I already said I consider 7D2D vanilla to be a sandbox game. *shrug*. Hell. I'm a step in front of your own opinion in having to use Creative for Sandbox Mode.

Considering the Kickstarter stated the game had all of these elements, I thought we were all relatively good on the front. Just all wanted tweaks. But all this leads me to believe that 7D2D would be better off, as usual, implementing more game play altering options. Then have a preset adjuster that tweaks those options. Vanilla Mode, Sandbox Mode, FPS Mode would be the options that come to mind.

Vanilla Mode for TPF's ideals.

Sandbox Mode with less emphasis on stamina drain during resource collection (stamina slider option gets lowered) and less zombie spawns (max zombies drop a bit). Maybe digging zombies turned off.

FPS Mode with much less emphasis on stamina drain and more zombie spawns. Maybe an option that literally removes tools and makes all terrain voxels invulnerable.

I'm sure other tweaks could go into all that but you get the idea. Would SERIOUSLY help resolve issues with multiple camps which this game just naturally generates. 7D2D can't help but have a wide variety of player types. So rather than having them all be pissed all the time, set'em up yo.
Click to expand...
It's cool. I'll put in a ticket to have the name "Creative Mode" changed to "Sandbox Mode" on the main menu so the already existing option is more apparent. ;)

 
That makes sense. I have been playing the right way then. I do the same thing, no building till iron tools. I can live with that.
Thing that makes it feel so much worse is the restarts. But can't be helped, I get it. It just inflates the feeling of grind to do it over and over.
Click to expand...
Yeah, in my recent playthrough on Survivalist, 16 blood moon, no air-drops mode I just picked a POI house that was sturdy near a trader. Farmed casually just for enough stuff to reinforce the house a bit and looted/leveled up. I smelted cement down in the forge and saved it up until I could get a cement mixer. Then I just kept crafting slowly until I had enough for a solid base (and iron tools, and a steel pick), then started farming. Farming was easy, knocking out nodes in a few swings. Slapped down a concrete-fortress/bunker nearby in the snow biome, had just enough resources for a core + 2 walls with traps between each wall. That was on... day 25, 3 days for making ammo and laying some more traps on the base.

But, I guess the game is terrible because you can't build that fortress by day 4. lol

 
Which is why industries develop standards and over time the industry standard is what sticks. You can consider anything to be whatever you want and you will be correct for yourself. Meanwhile developers will make games according to the industry standard. Our developers consider Creative Mode to be the sandbox and they are developing survival mode as a game with rules and restrictions and consequences. If the survival game once upon a time resembled a sandbox it is because it wasn't developed yet.
Click to expand...
As far as I know there is no actual industry definition of what a sandbox game is.... its all personal interpretation. However, there are some characteristics that most people accept as being sandbox-like. You've covered many of them in you're googled definition. To me, as sandbox game is one that doesn't force you to follow any particular path.... you can go where you want, progress as you want, chose to follow a story line or chose not too. The Elder Scroll games are one of the best examples of a sandbox game, IMO.

A16 was very much a sandbox game to me.... A17 less so. The primary difference between the two being you could chose whether to fight or hide in A16, not so much in A17. I don't mean this as a criticism, but only to explain why it's less of sandbox game to me.

 
As far as I know there is no actual industry definition of what a sandbox game is.... its all personal interpretation. However, there are some characteristics that most people accept as being sandbox-like. You've covered many of them in you're googled definition. To me, as sandbox game is one that doesn't force you to follow any particular path.... you can go where you want, progress as you want, chose to follow a story line or chose not too. The Elder Scroll games are one of the best examples of a sandbox game, IMO.
A16 was very much a sandbox game to me.... A17 less so. The primary difference between the two being you could chose whether to fight or hide in A16, not so much in A17. I don't mean this as a criticism, but only to explain why it's less of sandbox game to me.
Click to expand...
That's the thing.. A16 was broken, the devs broke it. The game doesnt say "7 days to die: a sandbox game". The zombies are supposed to try to kill you no matter where you're at. The choice is HOW you survive them, not cheese out behind an inpenatrable wall (since A16 zombies would take weeks to break through steel walls lol) or hide in the dirt somewhere.

 
My interpretation of this game is that it's not really any one of those things. It's a mixture of all those genres and the trick is trying to balance that all together to create something that takes some of the best aspects from survival, tower defense, sandbox, crafting, etc.

I'd agree with Roland that the creative mode is closest to a traditional sandbox mode. You can't really have a pure sandbox game as I traditionally think of them when you have survival elements in it too. The survival elements will severely hinder your ability for that. Once you overcome the survival part of the game and are established - the game then becomes sandbox. But, if you want it right from the start and skip all the other genres in the game - then yeah creative mode with the option to only use the menu when you want is about as close as you're going to get.

 
Yeah I just don't get how some people watched the trailers/read the description on the store and then played the game expecting zombies to be an optional mini-game and have the ability to safely wander the world, looting and building pretty-buildings and expect zombies to not destroy their 'work of art' because they're roleplaying something that the game didn't intend them to do -- then getting mad claiming they're "destroying the game because I can't roleplay Bob the Builder - Zombie sympathizer!"

I guess since it's too hard to select Creative Mode -- as Roland said, the option they made for sandbox -- they should have an option in the main menu: "New Game" and "Casual Roleplaying(replace the name with something that makes more sense lol)". New Game is as the game was intended to be, a grueling game where you can utilize the whole world to survive zombies who want to kill you/destroy your base - no matter where you are. Casual Roleplaying would just replace Creative Mode... since... I guess that's an option that's forbode by people who want it. Zombies either don't exist or just slowly walk around and only attack when you want 'em to, and no sleepers or anything, no leveling all perks unlocked, just give 'em the casual world so they shush bashing the game lol.
Click to expand...
I don't get how people can read Tower Defense and Sandbox and not expect a relatively comfortable and safe downtime to build and build the cool tower defense aspect of the game. Your base. Huh. It's almost like it's to hard for people to up their difficulty.

And I don't recall hearing anyone but Roland state that Creative was the Sandbox of the game. Even if TFP did state that, I call severe BS on that.

"An open world, voxel-based, sandbox game blending the best elements of FPS, Survival Horror, Tower Defense and Role Playing Games."

So, to have open world, you should be in creative too?

So, to have Voxels, you should be in creative too?

I don't see that Sandbox was one of the blended options giving leeway here. The game is to be, by kickstart definition, Open World, Sandbox, and Voxel based.

Not "Open World, Voxel based, with a Sandbox Creative Mode". No. That is not what this game was advertised as. And I'll still state that the game is still a Sandbox Game so long as they maintain the ability to do anything I want in the game. Doesn't absolutely mean I have to be able to do it at the greatest ability in all things. But I should be able to do all things. Which right now, i can.

- - - Updated - - -

It's cool. I'll put in a ticket to have the name "Creative Mode" changed to "Sandbox Mode" on the main menu so the already existing option is more apparent. ;)
Click to expand...
You probably should if that's what they're really saying. Would definitely put the issue to rest. Though welcome to the wonderful life of Fallout 76, cause that's BS. I want Canvas...

 
What? Lol. You're not even making sense. I play in "New Game" non creative, and I have Voxels in my Open World game. You missed the descriptions where it showcases zombies trying to kill you at all times. Nit-picking particular elements to make your case to convince the devs to turn the game casual won't work. Look at the game's preview in Steam again.

So, you're saying, sandbox has a strict definition of "No enemies, roam the world and roleplay whatever you want with no threat"? Lol This forum I swear

 
Last edited by a moderator:
That's the thing.. A16 was broken, the devs broke it. The game doesnt say "7 days to die: a sandbox game". The zombies are supposed to try to kill you no matter where you're at. The choice is HOW you survive them, not cheese out behind an inpenatrable wall (since A16 zombies would take weeks to break through steel walls lol) or hide in the dirt somewhere.
Click to expand...
Actually, yes it does say Sandbox Game. It absolutely indeed does. Directly on Kickstarter and basically (almost directly) on Steam.

Kickstarter: "An open world, voxel-based, sandbox game blending the best elements of FPS, Survival Horror, Tower Defense and Role Playing Games."

Steam: "7 Days to Die is an open-world game that is a unique combination of first person shooter, survival horror, tower defense, and role-playing games. Play the definitive zombie survival sandbox RPG that came first. Navezgane awaits!"

- - - Updated - - -

What? Lol. You're not even making sense. I play in "New Game" non creative, and I have Voxels in my Open World game. You missed the descriptions where it showcases zombies trying to kill you at all times. Nit-picking particular elements to make your case to convince the devs to turn the game casual won't work. Look at the game's preview in Steam again.
Click to expand...
I can't help if you're bad at reading. That's on you. Go back and get gud at reading.

 
No, I am rather proficient at reading. What I'm reading is you wanted a flower-picking stroll in the park game like Minecraft. You must have invented the term sandbox, since evidently it trumps everything the game was advertised about. Ya know, zombies that want to kill you. It's a BLEND. I don't think you understand what blend means.

TFP, sorry guys. You guys have to remove zombies, zombies destroying bases and such. This guy says because sandbox is in the description it means none of the hard stuff is allowed.

And oh, you "get gud" at reading. I said, 'The game doesnt say "7 days to die: a sandbox game"', you said the description says, "7 Days to Die is an open-world game that is a unique combination of first person shooter, survival horror, tower defense, and role-playing games. Play the definitive zombie survival sandbox RPG that came first. Navezgane awaits!"

You said I was wrong. How? So, you're saying that the DEVS' description -- the people who MADE the game -- is wrong?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
No, I am rather proficient at reading. What I'm reading is you wanted a flower-picking stroll in the park game like Minecraft. You must have invented the term sandbox, since evidently it trumps everything the game was advertised about. Ya know, zombies that want to kill you. It's a BLEND. I don't think you understand what blend means.
TFP, sorry guys. You guys have to remove zombies, zombies destroying bases and such. This guy says because sandbox is in the description it means none of the hard stuff is allowed.
Click to expand...
Actually, Sandbox wasn't listed as a BLEND. Again, practice reading.

And just because you're dramatic and like to throw fits at people asking to have the promised game design delivered... which... They've been doing... Again... That's on you.

They stated this was a Sandbox RPG.

They stated this was a Sandbox Game.

Not blended with sandbox. Not a Sandbox Creative Mode. This, by TFP's own hand, was written in description as Sandbox. Among Voxel and Open World and Zombie Survival.

It was not written as Jugginator and friends game to go bat poop crazy with insane stuff. However... There's always mods. Have at it. :thumb:

- - - Updated - - -

I can't help but think that some of you guys are just posting to pass the time while your stamina regens :D :D
Click to expand...
lol. Work life... Does have it's own stamina bar...

 
Wow, this thread.

My 2c.

Sandbox - after the initial tut/quest, you can do whatever you want provided you have the skill/time/energy. Anything should be achievable if you put in the effort, not gated behind something that is a 1/0. Perks/Skill sets enhance, not unlock things just because. Progression is free form, doesnt matter which direction you choose.

Open World - Linear progression, while you're free to explore etc, you must do items x,y,z at some point to progress. Nothing further happens until you do.

Open World Sandbox - combination of. Pretty sure this is what we got. I dont agree with everything TFP do but splitting hairs over this, come on, you all have better things to do.

 
If I go back to the topic I'm really glad that TFP are going to make tower defense optional, for the last couple of alphas I felt left out, with each and every one of the alphas focusing more and more on eliminating me and everything I've collected and built, which is not why I started playing this game. Dogs, cops, football players, ferals (AND FERAL COPS OMFG), iradiated zombies and whatnot (INCLUDING COPS AGAIN FFS), heat maps, blood moons, sleepers,

FERAL SLEEPERS, you name it.

Digging zombies and overcrowded prefabs were really the last straw. That's why I really appreciate them planning to make TD optional, let people choose the experience they want. Improving performance and giving more exp for mining and stuff is a plan I also like.

I know it must be painful to see all the red reviews after so much time and effort were put into A17, but sadly the small ultra important things outweigh the super awesome, yet non-essential things. After all, how can I ever enjoy a jeep ride when I won't ever be able to build it and if I manage it by miracle, it will only bring in more zombies or just plain fall through the ground? Same applies to everything cool and new in A17 and even some basic stuff like base building. In A16.4 I could only build underground. Now I can't build anywhere.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top