PC Steam reviews - I kinda figured
- Thread starter hillbilly
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Aldranon
New member
Right. Its all a moving power curve and staying ahead of that is what makes the difference.
Player level and player lethality/survivability, are not the same.
Gazz brought up a good point that leveling up is not good or bad, but gaining important mods and useful equipment is all good.
So, how do you get the good loot/equipment from a strong POI without gain a bunch of levels? Backdoors.
Some strong POI's (Water Works for example) have a great backdoor that TFP's want you to use to gain a little on the power curve. There are others that may or may not be as obvious, but they are there.
Roland
Community Moderator
I enjoy the early game because it is more challenging to survive fighting zombies, clearing POIs, and defending on blood moon as a vulnerable character.
It’s not that I enjoy hours of hitting trees and rock with a stone axe. That isn’t fun at all but then again I don’t do that. I harvest only what I need and in the beginning my needs are smaller because I haven’t yet reached the point in progression to be wanting to harvest full stacks of wood, Stone, Clay, and Ore.
As soon as you level up to a point where you bringing in tons of resources for much less effort you now have the means and time to create much safer bases, armor, and weapons which in turn make the challenge of exploring and clearing POIs a cakewalk and blood moons negligible and then the game really does feel repetitive.
Now maybe there are people who really do like to tunnel down to bedrock using their tier one stone axe but not I. I would never start a project like that until I had progressed to the point where it is fun to do so. I just don’t want that progression to last a couple of days or as Wolfy was saying—for the game to begin at that point.
I agree that there is no challenge to hitting a rock 50 times vs 3 times and if you isolate that one activity and call that the early game then I agree with the detractors. But looking at mining in isolation and calling that the early game is a phenomenally skewed thing to do.
All anyone needs to do is change the number of points they get from starter quest and it solves all differences of opinion. Take 20 points instead of 4 and you can start out at a higher baseline. It is one simple edit.
It is clear that different people have fun in different ways. The only difference seems to be the inability of some people to comprehend that the universe actually is more diverse than themselves. You can spot this when they express confusion over how the devs made their decisions, assume that others can’t possibly like things they don’t so must be fanbois.
It’s not that I enjoy hours of hitting trees and rock with a stone axe. That isn’t fun at all but then again I don’t do that. I harvest only what I need and in the beginning my needs are smaller because I haven’t yet reached the point in progression to be wanting to harvest full stacks of wood, Stone, Clay, and Ore.
As soon as you level up to a point where you bringing in tons of resources for much less effort you now have the means and time to create much safer bases, armor, and weapons which in turn make the challenge of exploring and clearing POIs a cakewalk and blood moons negligible and then the game really does feel repetitive.
Now maybe there are people who really do like to tunnel down to bedrock using their tier one stone axe but not I. I would never start a project like that until I had progressed to the point where it is fun to do so. I just don’t want that progression to last a couple of days or as Wolfy was saying—for the game to begin at that point.
I agree that there is no challenge to hitting a rock 50 times vs 3 times and if you isolate that one activity and call that the early game then I agree with the detractors. But looking at mining in isolation and calling that the early game is a phenomenally skewed thing to do.
All anyone needs to do is change the number of points they get from starter quest and it solves all differences of opinion. Take 20 points instead of 4 and you can start out at a higher baseline. It is one simple edit.
It is clear that different people have fun in different ways. The only difference seems to be the inability of some people to comprehend that the universe actually is more diverse than themselves. You can spot this when they express confusion over how the devs made their decisions, assume that others can’t possibly like things they don’t so must be fanbois.
I dont have an issue with modding a few things in the game to my enjoyment. My issue is not having to make a few changes.
At this point i have to re write a bunch of features thay have added up over the alphas and some of it just plain cannot be modded back in:
Things like the mini map, removing crafting timers, removing football zombies
Are nothing by themselves. I can make these little changes.
What i cant do is remove the item mod system or harvest system or get back LBD or skillbooks or gunparts or make the AI behave like previous versions.
Letting user edit XML values is one thing.
Expecting them to write a total conversion mod to deal with an ever increasing laundry list of removed features and rebalance the entire game is another.
Im glad you have the patience to make massive changes to the game Jax but we are not all you, the ammount of time it would take me to get my mod running (currently not even possible) would sap any enjoyment i have left for this game to nothing. I play games for fun, i dont wanna do 50-5000 hours of work to it before i can play.
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I dont have an issue with a character bieng weaker at the start.
My issue is that with each alpha the character is A LOT weaker than in previous alphas and after finally jumping through all the hoops the added rpg element gives you end up in basically the exact same place as where you were maxed out in the previous alpha.
I want MORE progression, not the same progression redesigned again and again.
If TFP had stopped ♥♥♥♥ing around with RPG stuff we might have colonies of Farmer NPCs and blacksmiths.
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For me Roland the game in a16 started to be enjoyable to play (at least to build/gather and not think 'this is taking too long' while watching block hp bars tick down) after i had gotten iron tools at around quality 200 and miner69 + sextrex at 3-3/5.
Nerf the charcter a bit at the start, but make that start point a more enjoyable place and make the endpoint not so unreasonably far away. (And remove perks that make the game easier, these are not meaningful choices and detract a lot from the game).
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The game is also a lot more fun when you have cop zombies and dogs on you: grinding XP for the game to actually start throwing them at you is almost as lame as having tp grind it so mining dosent feel a chore, or the inventory doesnt feel tiny.
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A17 has made the game much easier to mod. So easy that even non-modders can add their own little tweaks if they head over to the mod section, follow some tutorials and get some help. It took me just half an hour last night to make a mod that changed the colour of my zombies and that's my first time making anything.
Another thing some non-modders may not be aware of is that the new "modlet" system allows you to pick and choose different elements to include so you can basically design your own overhaul. For example you can already see modders making comprehensive lists of modlets to choose from - faster vehicles, more resources from farming, harder zombies/easier zombies and plenty of A16 style modlets already - and this is all just after a couple weeks. Given time I'm sure we'll see more ambitious projects coming to life.
This functionality was put in the game by design as modding is the best way for people to tailor the game to their specific personal tastes. Sure people may never get everything exactly how they want it but at the very least there's plenty scope there to try.
Exxodous
Active member
This sounds exactly how are playing our MP game in A17. 3 of us and all completely different builds.
Me: A sneaky bow shooting scavenger with some mining skill.
Wife: Builder/Crafter/Miner with few fighting skills
Son: Run and gunner who plows through POI's and Hordes like a mad man.
Guess I don't see why folks don't think this is possible any longer?
Deceptive Pastry
New member
1. I was responding to someone about whether it is more/less challenging, nothing to do with the pros/cons of being slower
2. I was literally responding to a person who was acting condescending about people wanting to spend less time getting resources and you're giving me crap about people enjoying different styles of games? lol
Roland
Community Moderator
On the subject of how to have fun with this game we all just need to agree to disagree. The developers are making a game that will appeal to one set of players as the pinnacle and perfection of games. To several other sets of players it will be a great game. To many other sets of players it will be a good game. For some of these players and for the rest who have a lower opinion there is modding.
A small subset of angry petulant players will think that modders are actually "fixing" a "broken" game and castigate TFP for being lazy and incompetent because they need modders to do what they couldn't. I hope that there are only a very few of such small-minded people who cannot fathom that perhaps others have fun in a different way than they do.
At any rate, despite what these people may post, whatever TFP settles upon will be fantastic for some percentage of the player base and the rest will either be grateful or outraged about modding.
A small subset of angry petulant players will think that modders are actually "fixing" a "broken" game and castigate TFP for being lazy and incompetent because they need modders to do what they couldn't. I hope that there are only a very few of such small-minded people who cannot fathom that perhaps others have fun in a different way than they do.
At any rate, despite what these people may post, whatever TFP settles upon will be fantastic for some percentage of the player base and the rest will either be grateful or outraged about modding.
Hek Harris
New member
7 Days is a survival game. Creative is the sandbox mode. So yes.
Are you crazy !!? Now all the small-minded people will get angry and jump at you. Never tell a cat he's a cat : he really sees himself as a tiger. Mine act that way.
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Kalen
New member
I never said 7 days was a sandbox game.... I'm just saying that creative mode is not what a sandbox game is.
however, I just checked the kickstarter page and it says:
An open world, voxel-based, sandbox game blending the best elements of FPS, Survival Horror, Tower Defense and Role Playing Games.