PC Spikes, mines and other defenses

Onarr

Onarr

Refugee
Hi guys,

one thing I really dont understand is, why deaths caused by spikes and mines do not grant XP? I understand, that you should defend your base actively, but this decreases value of most kind of defenses:

-mines

-turrets

-blade trap

-dart trap

-spikes

On the other hand, anything that helps you slow down incoming hordes is highly valuable

-electric fence

-barbed wire

In all my playthroughs, I simply create bunker - max. out melee dmg output and smash one zombie head after another. No reason to really upgrade my defenses, if it does not provide XP. All I need I have access from day one.

The traps might be useful to weakeining ferals and iradiateds, but that usually kills normal zombies.

It definitely is not resource problem, because all of those defenses have high cost.

Tl;Dr: we have many cool defenses in game, but we are incentivised to not use them.

 
In my opinion another reason to reduce xp you get from zombies, but that is another discussion. Play Rolands 0xp mod and you might get to understand this point.

If you really look into the mechanics of this game you also realize that getting xp from zombies is not really THAT beneficial because it also increases gamestage without generally improving you through equipment and wealth. Mining and looting on the other hand also improve your equipment and resources so are the "richer" sources of XP.

My advice: Ignore XP, play like a survivor, use traps, you will still automatically level but your equipment at level 30 will be better than if you were hunting for XP while the zombies will be level 30 zombies either way.

tldr; Mining and looting is a very balanced diet while zombie killing is a fat cheeseburger :cocksure:

 
In my opinion another reason to reduce xp you get from zombies, but that is another discussion. Play Rolands 0xp mod and you might get to understand this point.
If you really look into the mechanics of this game you also realize that getting xp from zombies is not really THAT beneficial because it also increases gamestage without generally improving you through equipment and wealth. Mining and looting on the other hand also improve your equipment and resources so are the "richer" sources of XP.

My advice: Ignore XP, play like a survivor, use traps, you will still automatically level but your equipment at level 30 will be better than if you were hunting for XP while the zombies will be level 30 zombies either way.

tldr; Mining and looting is a very balanced diet while zombie killing is a fat cheeseburger :cocksure:
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I disagree, in A17, I went full XP rampage in my first week, put all my points into skull crusher and sex-trex and have absolutely no problem with zombies at all. I got so many loot bags, that I got full set of armor and tools + enough meds to really not care about few hits from ferals.

Also, if zombies do not give XP at all, whats the point of defending your base on blood moon? It incentives passive gameplay way too much. Sorry but this is not an answer for this problem

 
Tl;Dr: we have many cool defenses in game, but we are incentivised to not use them.
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It always depends on what you prioritize. If you want maximum XP you will want to kill every zombie personally.

If you don't care about XP you can use traps to save ammo or just to build an interesting base that might even work so well that you can go AFK while the base does the work.

 
I disagree, in A17, I went full XP rampage in my first week, put all my points into skull crusher and sex-trex and have absolutely no problem with zombies at all. I got so many loot bags, that I got full set of armor and tools + enough meds to really not care about few hits from ferals.
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Sure, but there are also players who have complained about horde nights and POIs full of ferals they can't deal with because they rushed getting all XP they can. TFP sadly increased the probability for loot bags in A18 which will increase this problem again. IMO loot bags on zombies is simply wrong.

Also, if zombies do not give XP at all, whats the point of defending your base on blood moon? It incentives passive gameplay way too much. Sorry but this is not an answer for this problem
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This discussion is age old. Even TFP said from time to time that the zombies should be just the danger in the game and not a loot delivery service. But they kept some of the loot and slighty increased xp (compared to A16) and probably don't really see that XP and loot are not that different.

It is hard to explain in a few words, but a game usually wants you to immerse yourself into your role, in this case as a survivor. But xp is a meta-game mechanic, something the survivor in the game should not notice or optimize for. A fully immersed player would be happy about a new gun, but not at all notice that he got 700 xp. No game is a perfect simulation and the meta-game never vanishes completely but a game designer doesn't want the meta-game to completely dominate the decisions of the player.

Look at a typical MMO like World of Warcraft how it is when the meta-game dominates. Many players there only concentrate on XP and tier X gear they read about in wikis, the story in the game (for example quest descriptions) are klicked away immediately, they don't care. They rush through the same dungeons again and again to just get that one item they are after, they don't recognize the enemies as enemies but just as targets for their attack rotation. They almost completely lost their immersion and play the game like chess or poker.

You say "passive gameplay"? So tower defense (one of the genres this game is made out of purposely) is an undesirable element for you? Being a genre mix makes this possible, you can play it as a shooter as well (I'm not sure "shooter" is in the kickstarter description, TD definitely is). If zombies don't have loot and XP, passive gameplay will never get you ammo and the best equipment (in A18), except if those damn zombies bring it in loot bags and even more XP to your base.

As I said, play 0xp mod and you might get it. In that mod XP is not the goal, you get it automatically. Surviving is the goal. How you do that is your problem. I build horde bases and defend my base at horde night even though I don't get xp for that at all. I'm a survivor and I feel more secure behind lots of thick walls and traps. I go out scavenging because I need better equipment. I don't see a problem with motivation.

 
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Just think of the system overhead to track the passive exp gains from your sea of 5000 spikes. Imagine what that would be like on a MP server where multiple people have veritable oceans around their little base hut. Remember that this is a fully 3D Voxel game that already has a lot of system overhead.

Seriously though, it doesn't make a lot of sense to get exp for a passive trap that you do almost nothing for except wait for an entity to stumble on it.

 
I believe mines at least need to be counted for exp. They are far more beneficial to use offensively than defensively, like laying traps as your going through a poi. Also they are a lot more expensive to make than spikes and it's not practical to use them in base defense or spam craft them. They also require the work bench to make.

 
I believe mines at least need to be counted for exp. They are far more beneficial to use offensively than defensively, like laying traps as your going through a poi. Also they are a lot more expensive to make than spikes and it's not practical to use them in base defense or spam craft them. They also require the work bench to make.
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i agree with this

 
You people got it backwards. Traps shouldn't get value by becoming afk xp farms, they should get value by the player actually having to use them.

 
Just think of the system overhead to track the passive exp gains from your sea of 5000 spikes. Imagine what that would be like on a MP server where multiple people have veritable oceans around their little base hut. Remember that this is a fully 3D Voxel game that already has a lot of system overhead.
Seriously though, it doesn't make a lot of sense to get exp for a passive trap that you do almost nothing for except wait for an entity to stumble on it.
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Well, I dont think it would be big of a problem. First of, they are implementing it for the A18 with scrap turret. You can implement distance restrictions for gaining XP. Also, you need to realize, that using trap is not AFK farming. You put efort to kill the horde beforehand, so in regards to time and resources spent, its on par with killing them with your guns.

 
I play with a group of 9 and we surely miss the old A15.2 of clusters of zed bodz all over the place and having to clean it all up, not to mention the massive amounts of loot... No matter what anyone says - we miss it since we started playing that way! But we go with what we got so... As for traps and such, I'd like to see the new types up gradable to steel and such... Kinda bites the big one that you can only make iron ones lol We'll see what A18 brings and we'll go from there.

 
I play with a group of 9 and we surely miss the old A15.2 of clusters of zed bodz all over the place and having to clean it all up, not to mention the massive amounts of loot...
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Even if 99% of the loot was just garbage, it was a completely different feeling.

I had a huge base and after the horde there were whole fields with corpses lying on the ground. Now I see only a few yellow bags lying on the ground. As if the horde night had never taken place.

 
tbh, i agree in some way that its wierd how something u created doesnt give exp, atleast i would say that maby the windcutter propel trap should atleast give exp sins its electric u know? spikes would be alot of exp early and alot of cheese opertunity. not sure if that is balanced but free exp not sure they want us to get that.

 
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