PC Some honest opinion on A17

[kidmo31]

I love the new shaders and textures. I love the dungeons and new POIs and Questing.

But as a person who plays primarily single player this game is borked now. While I understand a overall skill system needed a revamp this is not fun as SP. You spend hours to realize crafting skills are useless. Base Building also useless unless you figure out a way to cheese the system. Horde night you have no choice but to fight. You build a base to fight and 5 seconds your overrun these zeds went from Romero to World War Z. They can jump, dig, and break with a force not even really seen in movies. Perks should be gated but basic attributes should increase with that activity. Similar to how mining tools you could level by the act of mining or chopping. But Miner 69er was a purchase only with points perk and was a drastic bonus you could see. Level ups dont feel rewarding. The first 7 days play like crap now cause you never have stamina to do anything even defend yourself unless you play walk always.

Everything else is great. AI is loads better. Just this skill/level/perk system needs alot of work... feels like we took a huge step back in that area.

 

[Laz Man]

It's really tough for me to give too much constructive feedback yet due to the limited time I've played so far.

When I first booted up A17, it definitely was a bit daunting, especially after my 1st encounter with a horde at night.

The new AI threw me off completely. My 1st thought was like "nooo way, this is overkill." However, after some time I accepted the new state of the game as a challenge and have been enjoying myself ever since. I did give myself a crutch by only making ferals and BM, sprinters, and this was the perfect balance for me to in order to move forward (at least for now)

As far as as the early game is concerned, it feels much more like a survival game which is to be expected imo.

Regarding the perk/skill system, I am liking it so far. I'm a huge RPG fan and appreciate the adoption of a tried and true skill system like fallout (i.e. S.PE.C.I.A.L). The previous system was limited in scalability and a nightmare to balance. It also lacked any notable skills/ability which made it boring imo.

In general, I think the game is moving in the right direction based on my tastes (new AI, POIs, quests, item mods, etc.). I am excited to see what is next.

 

[kidmo31]

The problem is with a "RPG like" system is it cannot be based solely on Perks. The Special system from fallout gave 2 separate bonuses to leveling up which was the overall stat upgrade and a perk every so many levels. The problem is nothing feels like a "Perk" it feels like a small increase to one action. With the Pistols Perk in Fallout you felt like a Badass with Pistols... Not one perk in this makes you feel like a badass until you sink alot of hours and the gamestage gets unbalanced in the games favor.

 

[DEADication]

Horde night you have no choice but to fight. You build a base to fight and 5 seconds your overrun these zeds went from Romero to World War Z. They can jump, dig, and break with a force not even really seen in movies.

Set BM horde speed to jog*, and don't forget... barbed wire is your best friend.

But yeah, the game isn't currently balanced for SP, it can be a real slog.

*Ego permitting

 

[Roland]

I don't see that as a problem for someone like me who likes the game as equal parts survival and rpg. Ramping up the benefits too quickly completely negates the survival aspect of the game. Survival needs threat of death and management of resources-- stamina being one of those resources. No game is going to cater to every preference. What some people call a slow, grinding, and boring, I see as measured, fun, and fulfilling. I appreciate the highs by playing through the lows and experiencing all the incremental changes.

 

[kidmo31]

I don't see that as a problem for someone like me who likes the game as equal parts survival and rpg. Ramping up the benefits too quickly completely negates the survival aspect of the game. Survival needs threat of death and management of resources-- stamina being one of those resources. No game is going to cater to every preference. What some people call a slow, grinding, and boring, I see as measured, fun, and fulfilling. I appreciate the highs by playing through the lows and experiencing all the incremental changes.

Roland I have no issue with difficulty. The zeds in their base form is still easy to conga line. Granted more tactics like flanking might help with that. The issue is there is zero progression without interacting with a menu. RPGs traditionally provide small upgrades along with a specialization perk thrown in. At the start your good at nothing, Crafting only increases durability so that is useless as most resources are easy to get. Hell the first two clubs have no difference than what materials repair them. And as you slowly slog through getting food crafting, basic stamina , and maybe a small increase to blunt weapons. You cant do anything at night cause even if your in a sealed box your gonna get someone bashing in your door cause you made a noise so 10 minutes is just spent standing doing nothing so ya dont get wrecked. The design is promoting inaction so you dont increase the difficulty too fast before a horde night. and for gods sake if things are going to be tied so closely to food and water bring back the bars letting us see their status.

Also SP is a mess to play as a Specialized character. With a group sure it works. But SP is broken for any meaningful progression

 

[Roland]

Roland I have no issue with difficulty. The zeds in their base form is still easy to conga line. Granted more tactics like flanking might help with that. The issue is there is zero progression without interacting with a menu. RPGs traditionally provide small upgrades along with a specialization perk thrown in. At the start your good at nothing, Crafting only increases durability so that is useless as most resources are easy to get. Hell the first two clubs have no difference than what materials repair them. And as you slowly slog through getting food crafting, basic stamina , and maybe a small increase to blunt weapons. You cant do anything at night cause even if your in a sealed box your gonna get someone bashing in your door cause you made a noise so 10 minutes is just spent standing doing nothing so ya dont get wrecked. The design is promoting inaction so you dont increase the difficulty too fast before a horde night. and for gods sake if things are going to be tied so closely to food and water bring back the bars letting us see their status.

I get the distaste for a menu driven progression format. I'm not as bothered by it because I use it at night and it feels very D&Dish which IS the standard for what is traditional for RPG's by the way. I also don't see it as slog to go through those things. What are you goals? When you sit down to play what do you hope to accomplish by the time you finish. For me it is getting food, crafting, clearing POI's, etc and it isn't a slog. It is carving out an existence. As xp comes and I can upgrade something about myself I feel that I'm getting stronger.

What I don't say to myself is, "I want to progress three levels tonight!" I'm not sure what your problem with zombies at night is. They are blind until they get to within 4 or 5 blocks of you. As long as you move silently and throw rocks to direct them away from you there is no problem. Why sit in a sealed box waiting for them to hear you and come investigate?

 

[DEADication]

You cant do anything at night cause even if your in a sealed box your gonna get someone bashing in your door cause you made a noise so 10 minutes is just spent standing doing nothing so ya dont get wrecked. The design is promoting inaction so you dont increase the difficulty too fast before a horde night. and for gods sake if things are going to be tied so closely to food and water bring back the bars letting us see their status.
Also SP is a mess to play as a Specialized character. With a group sure it works. But SP is broken for any meaningful progression

Light your base up like a Christmas tree so you can see them and go out and kill them.



Just after 7 day horde, about a third of my torches and half my light columns have been taken out.

and it isn't a slog.

I thought that TFP had already stated (via yourself) that further balancing was needed and coming next update... is this not so?

 

[LuckyStar]

You spend hours to realize crafting skills are useless.

Can't agree with this. More than ever, I find, they are needed and very useful.

Base Building also useless unless you figure out a way to cheese the system.

Again don't agree.

I am having less trouble building now with practice.

Is it as easy as A16? Nope.

Can you still build cool stuff? Yup.

Just takes a little more effort to do the same things.

Horde night you have no choice but to fight.

You build a base to fight and 5 seconds your overrun these zeds went from Romero to World War Z.

Untrue.

You can ride a bicycle whole night if that's what you want to do.

They can jump, dig, and break with a force not even really seen in movies.

So what if movies don't have zombie behaviour the same as 7DTD.

A) That's called innovation.

B) This is a game, not a movie.

C) This is what the Zeds in the universe of 7DTD do.

No what else isn't there? Lightsabers!

Imagine that.

Perks should be gated but basic attributes should increase with that activity. Similar to how mining tools you could level by the act of mining or chopping. But Miner 69er was a purchase only with points perk and was a drastic bonus you could see. Level ups don't feel rewarding.

I won't say I agree with you but I completely understand where you're coming from.

The first 7 days play like crap now cause you never have stamina to do anything even defend yourself unless you play walk always.

Yeah I too have a problem with this.

It plays really slow in the first week.

Seems like we're doing a lot of the same stuff we used to but at a slower pace.

I don't like this either.

 

[Blackrook]

I'm loving the new alpha, new POIs definitely make it fresh but I play with a couple of Friends.

I can see the new PERK system needing extra points for attributes makes specialising in a group needful, and impossible on

single player - if you are playing single player edit the quests.xml to give yourself a extra points reward for the end of the starter quest,

we did this for our second run though to get a head start upped it from 5 to 25 points reward. Might make it more feasible to play singleplayer, as well as being able to PERK up your stamina earlier.

Base building - I'm not sure what the problem is, I made most of our base by myself in 1 day - BUT we do not use it for Bloodmoon.

If I'm by myself I just go sit on a roof on a random building taking potshots when I can. Not had any problem like that - although the spitty vultures are a bit of a pain if you don't notice them. I've not had the zombies take out the building or get me when I've been on top yet, so as far as I'm concerned they aren't rough or smart enough yet. We did sit out one BM at bedrock mining, and the zombies just got down to us as daybreak came, so we got out of the tunnel pretty damn quick. So digging ability is about right, but I think the zombies need a bit more climbing skill or climbing up on each to make it tougher for highrise bases. I'm not saying a whole hoard should be able to get up, but one or 3 reaching the top would make it a bit more challenging.

 

[OnlyMeiya]

The problem is with a "RPG like" system is it cannot be based solely on Perks. The Special system from fallout gave 2 separate bonuses to leveling up which was the overall stat upgrade and a perk every so many levels. The problem is nothing feels like a "Perk" it feels like a small increase to one action. With the Pistols Perk in Fallout you felt like a Badass with Pistols... Not one perk in this makes you feel like a badass until you sink alot of hours and the gamestage gets unbalanced in the games favor.

Basically TFP have taken literally everything away from us at the beginning of the game and in order to regain those skills we've lost we have to do so by purchasing those perks.

I not sure what their end goal here was but Im pretty sure they want the "Hardest" or most immersive single player game of all time, Except it feels far from that.

Challenge me through "Challenge" Not by crippling the ever living hell out of me lol..

I heard along the lines of people saying madmole has spoken about wanting to get away from PVP elements, personally as a player that enjoys pvp in a sandbox/creative crafting game I think thats bad game design when your game has unlimited potential for online/multiplayer and pvp yet you focus on pushing those players away.

But if they want me to play single player for anything more than 24 hours, give me something more to do.

When I purchased the game many years ago, PVP was fun and actually pretty balanced (Alpha 6-Alpha 10 were probably THE best stages of the game, every patch they do something even dumber, like making simple splints require duct tape, even though milkthisle is a thing, perhaps they should brush up on their own real survival skills lol )

Back then I had lots of friends that played this with me, now, well, almost none of them play anymore, its rather lonely and depressing.

Personally I love making amazing bases and logging in to players dropped bags in it, you get a great sense of satisfaction knowing your designs are outsmarting and killing players when you are away at work.

So now at level 1-10 I have several stacks of ammo and almost a full stack of mechanical parts, yeesh.

 

[kidmo31]

I'm loving the new alpha, new POIs definitely make it fresh but I play with a couple of Friends.
I can see the new PERK system needing extra points for attributes makes specialising in a group needful, and impossible on

single player - if you are playing single player edit the quests.xml to give yourself a extra points reward for the end of the starter quest,

we did this for our second run though to get a head start upped it from 5 to 25 points reward. Might make it more feasible to play singleplayer, as well as being able to PERK up your stamina earlier.

Base building - I'm not sure what the problem is, I made most of our base by myself in 1 day - BUT we do not use it for Bloodmoon.

If I'm by myself I just go sit on a roof on a random building taking potshots when I can. Not had any problem like that - although the spitty vultures are a bit of a pain if you don't notice them. I've not had the zombies take out the building or get me when I've been on top yet, so as far as I'm concerned they aren't rough or smart enough yet. We did sit out one BM at bedrock mining, and the zombies just got down to us as daybreak came, so we got out of the tunnel pretty damn quick. So digging ability is about right, but I think the zombies need a bit more climbing skill or climbing up on each to make it tougher for highrise bases. I'm not saying a whole hoard should be able to get up, but one or 3 reaching the top would make it a bit more challenging.

Hold up.... I have a program to fudge stats and break the game... I dont want to fudge the system cause most players are not going to have the skill set to do so. I am just trying to remind TFP Single player is still a thing and maybe balance the level system differently for each game type. Specialization is shooting yourself in the foot in SP.

 

[HeavensDoor405]

I don't see that as a problem for someone like me who likes the game as equal parts survival and rpg. Ramping up the benefits too quickly completely negates the survival aspect of the game. Survival needs threat of death and management of resources-- stamina being one of those resources. No game is going to cater to every preference. What some people call a slow, grinding, and boring, I see as measured, fun, and fulfilling. I appreciate the highs by playing through the lows and experiencing all the incremental changes.

The thing with D & D is you have base stats like Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, Charisma, etc. You might get a point in any of those every three or four levels, and the SKILLS section was based on an intelligence modifier, and the skills were 0 to 100 + Modifier. It's doable, and I don't believe the idea itself is copyrighted to wizards of the coast or anything. On the whole I love A17, the only thing that REALLY grinds my gears is the stamina crap. It's fixable, if the damage say started at 50% hunger or thirst. However, stamina damage at 100% hunger and thirst is complete bull. It's challenging enough with just the stamina recharge being slow, we didn't need the other stuff. New POI's are great, some more fun than other's. New vehicles are great, though I'm not much of a fan of the Gyrocopter, it just doesn't seem to work the way it ought to. The 4x4's hitbox is too low to the ground, it hits on every bump in the road and damages it, and it has trouble with all the bridges.

 

[OnlyMeiya]

I love the new shaders and textures. I love the dungeons and new POIs and Questing.
But as a person who plays primarily single player this game is borked now. While I understand a overall skill system needed a revamp this is not fun as SP. You spend hours to realize crafting skills are useless. Base Building also useless unless you figure out a way to cheese the system. Horde night you have no choice but to fight. You build a base to fight and 5 seconds your overrun these zeds went from Romero to World War Z. They can jump, dig, and break with a force not even really seen in movies. Perks should be gated but basic attributes should increase with that activity. Similar to how mining tools you could level by the act of mining or chopping. But Miner 69er was a purchase only with points perk and was a drastic bonus you could see. Level ups dont feel rewarding. The first 7 days play like crap now cause you never have stamina to do anything even defend yourself unless you play walk always.

Everything else is great. AI is loads better. Just this skill/level/perk system needs alot of work... feels like we took a huge step back in that area.

I am not a casual player, Single player is VERY boring to me.

Single Player is for players who are casual or do not like PVP, or cannot function in a pvp society server.

Single/solo player accentuated focus is completely stupid for a sandbox/crafting game, I wish the devs would get out of their PVE/solo/SPM bias they've been on and work more on multiplayer and PVP balance as well as fixing the NUMEROUS bugs that have been here since early Alpha stages instead of worrying about "Graphics" and changing the games core mechanics every year.

 

[Frotus]

Again don't agree.I am having less trouble building now with practice.

Is it as easy as A16? Nope.

Can you still build cool stuff? Yup.

Just takes a little more effort to do the same things.

I think base building is useless from the standpoint of survival, but it is doable and can be fun for a player. A player can get by with wood frames to use as stairs to scale tall buildings and just stay the night up there before moving on the next day. Or they can just use the roof as a base and take out the ladder or stairs the zombies use to get up there.

Just be sure to pick up the wood frames behind you ;-)

 

[Ghostlight]

Challenge me through "Challenge" Not by crippling the ever living hell out of me lol..

Well said. You win the internet.

The game has become "challenge me through tedium" instead. Newsflash: boring the player is not challenge. Yet the horrifying thing is, this seems to be EXACTLY where TFP wants the game to go. Every single build since A17 dropped has included one or more changes which slightly extend the "early game" while making it MUCH more tedious.

 

[OnlyMeiya]

I honestly feel like they are taking the name "7 days to die" with too much literal-icy.

Stretching out everything they possibly can to gimp the player as much as possible so they can "Barely" be prepared for the 7th day.

Its fine, you can always just swim in water and shoot at them since zed don't swim.

This is the currently alpha experience at the start.

I can't carry much.

I can barely run 10 meters before being winded.

I can't really explore much because low stam.

I can't craft a forge, I can't make tools, I can't farm.

I can't farm, so I can't eat good food to raise my stamina.

I can't break into much because all I have is a stone axe.

I can't craft the things I need to because I need to kill a bunch of zed to raise my int so I can make a forge.

All I have is a bow and stone arrows,

Multiple head shots required to kill even weakest of zed.

Essentially the player is a "Caged Rat" everything is a snowballed catch 22.

What do you do? Kill zed.

Basically, you "Grind" Nothing has changed. For those of us that can grind efficiently its not an issue, just annoying I have to spec into being able to craft a forge.

 

[Poojam]

I honestly feel like they are taking the name "7 days to die" with too much literal-icy.
Stretching out everything they possibly can to gimp the player as much as possible so they can "Barely" be prepared for the 7th day.

Its fine, you can always just swim in water and shoot at them since zed don't swim.

This is the currently alpha experience at the start.

I can't carry much.

I can barely run 10 meters before being winded.

I can't really explore much because low stam.

I can't craft a forge, I can't make tools, I can't farm.

I can't farm, so I can't eat good food to raise my stamina.

I can't break into much because all I have is a stone axe.

I can't craft the things I need to because I need to kill a bunch of zed to raise my int so I can make a forge.

All I have is a bow and stone arrows,

Multiple head shots required to kill even weakest of zed.

Essentially the player is a "Caged Rat" everything is a snowballed catch 22.

What do you do? Kill zed.

Basically, you "Grind" Nothing has changed. For those of us that can grind efficiently its not an issue, just annoying I have to spec into being able to craft a forge.

They are just making up for the lack of meaningful content. Add 1 or 2 things, and then just stretch out the existing content so a playthrough lasts for 40 hours. That way, new purchasers won't be able to get a steam refund.

 

[Davy Crockett]

extend the "early game" while making it MUCH more tedious.

Seems to me the reason for this is that instead of adding content, they're rearranging the existing content, which also happens to be the opposite of what you expect from an alpha version as opposed to a beta version.

 

[Feycat]

I am not a casual player, Single player is VERY boring to me.
Single Player is for players who are casual or do not like PVP, or cannot function in a pvp society server.

Single/solo player accentuated focus is completely stupid for a sandbox/crafting game, I wish the devs would get out of their PVE/solo/SPM bias they've been on and work more on multiplayer and PVP balance as well as fixing the NUMEROUS bugs that have been here since early Alpha stages instead of worrying about "Graphics" and changing the games core mechanics every year.

PvP has never been a focus of the game and won't ever be. The fact that PvPers exist in what is billed as a survival zombie horror game is only because you're forcing it in there. PvE is the intention of the development. The Pimps have made it clear multiple times that small co-op groups are their focus.