PC Some A17 thoughts

Dear mr Mole,

Do we get any random gen updates anytime soon?

The map is pretty uninspiring at the moment and I’m holding off starting a longer playthrough. I have lost the interest with every experimental at about two weeks in. I can’t find a cool place to build in. Compared to A16 the world feels like a scrambled mess. Pretty flat too.

 
The single land claim issue is noted but not easily solved.
If I may ask, is there some problem with new engine, that doesnt support multiple claim blocks? They were working very fine in a16.

Or is the claim blocking important pois the problem? Cause it can be solved in way more elegant way, than just cutting off a major game feature so crudely. For example, just spitballing here, creating another "neutral" claim block at every poi, with only one function of blocking other claim blocks from being placed there.

 
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Totally this. For every "majority of" I have an even bigger "majority of". Majority of people you agree with lol. There is very little facts other than gut feelings and we feel we've knocked it out of the park with A17, once the performance and balance are there its a big win.
While I do love this game and have logged many hours, I don’t agree with everything TFP does. I just totally trolled Gazz in mod forums over the haybale changes.

However, I don’t think 1 or 2 or 200 balance issues in a brand new perk system constitutes a broken game. Nor has it forsaken everyone that did a Kickstarter over 5 years ago.

Just because a friend makes a group toxic over a game, that isn’t even finished, certainly doesn’t constitute thousands of people’s feelings.

 
A few things, not sure if they've been mentioned here or anywhere else.

I can't comment much on defences, but there needs to be rewards for actively facing a horde night in your base. Maybe emphasise placing your claim block in the tutorial. The longer it's placed, the more "points" it builds up over 7 days.

On horde night, any zombie dying near the claim block through the player or traps unlocks these points (based on the horde size). At the end of the night, the player and any nearby allies gain experience and possibly other bonuses based on the day# and how many zombies died.

It would have to be worked so that anyone in a party doesn't benefit from multiple claims though.

 
So nobody can reply about how building has been compromised in A17? I guess we'll leave it as is unless someone can provide some kind of logic as to how your play style was compromised.
As for single player, the game is cake on normal settings, and I disable air drops and play with 24 zeds on horde night. At least so far, I'm on day 11 and I'm level 31. If anything the game is leveling too fast and its too easy. I had iron tools on day 1, some steel tools by day 2. Bicycle by day 9 or 10. I had my forge to make my own ingots the same day my iron tools wore out. I have hundreds of meat in my box, loads of corn and potaoes but I can't make stew yet, didn't need to bacon and eggs is good enough for now. Horde night and an occasional feral are the only things that challenge me so far.
Nope. Building is fantastic. Tbh I think the ones who complain just don't like change. I've yet to see a reasonable argument for the call to nerf zombies vs bases.

 
Nope. Building is fantastic. Tbh I think the ones who complain just don't like change. I've yet to see a reasonable argument for the call to nerf zombies vs bases.
I assume you wouldn't complain about receiving rewards for actively defending your base on horde nights though. Right now it's more logical to just walk away from it for the night

 
Nope. Building is fantastic. Tbh I think the ones who complain just don't like change. I've yet to see a reasonable argument for the call to nerf zombies vs bases.
The only issue is zombies possibly spawning inside a base because of LCB changes. If your base is larger than LCB size then you can have some problems potentially. Have yet to see that be an issue but have my server set to 200 blocks so can’t say.

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I assume you wouldn't complain about receiving rewards for actively defending your base on horde nights though. Right now it's more logical to just walk away from it for the night
Giving bonus xp/loot if next to your LCB might make this worth only having a single LCB.

 
I assume you wouldn't complain about receiving rewards for actively defending your base on horde nights though. Right now it's more logical to just walk away from it for the night
No, I complain about getting too much loot from zombies. It doesn't make sense to have everything thrown at you at day 7. And why do people need rewards so damn bad for horde nights? I mean, you do realize that's what the main part of the game right? SUrviving the blood moon hordes? So how about you enjoy killing the zombies and defending your base without dying, and have gratitude/satisfaction in seeing the morning sun pop up and pick off the remaining stragglers, repair the damage and prepare for the next horde night.

The game isn't 7 days to horde 900 chests of loot. Its 7 days to die unless you counter the blood moon with your badassness/cunning.

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The only issue is zombies possibly spawning inside a base because of LCB changes. If your base is larger than LCB size then you can have some problems potentially. Have yet to see that be an issue but have my server set to 200 blocks so can’t say.
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Giving bonus xp/loot if next to your LCB might make this worth only having a single LCB.
Large lcb claim size + a bedroll works. Bedrolls work the same. I havent build a gargantuan base but I'v enever seen spawning inside a lcb zone.

 
What you just said is 200% true, people just want to see what the update offers, they will go back to their more interesting games after the hype is down because "This game still sucks." (Everyone I play with is saying this, "Don't bother." "They've HorseFked this game." "Game is even more pointless now." These are the comments I'm getting from long term 3-5 year + friends who have played this game in some various several seeds and have more than a few thousand hours of played time across multiple patches . No one wants to play. I wonder why.
I myself have close to 5000 hours,(Played since A6) and you know what, if the game didn't suck I'd have over 10,000 hours. I used to not get enough of this game, now I can't stand it for more than an hour or two. I just get bored.

I have not lost my love for the game, because I can still play other games that have building and survival elements and find myself up till the next day on weekends.

This game has UNLIMITED potential with its only limited by the players creativity, the ability to manipulate,build,craft almost anything. This game could overtake minecraft in sales and keep players playing as long as players have been addicted to games like EverQuest and WorldofWarcraft.

I've said my peace on Multiplayer Many MANY patches ago. (A12 I think ) Where players are more likely to rage quit and leave a server if they are raided or pvp killed, SI instability destroyed my A16 playing as the traps were AMAZING for a person who loves building elaborate bases. But randomly falling blocks when there was clearly proper support just made me say "Fk it.. and quit to go play something else."

and also there are even more bigger problems with this.

Locally downloading the map means anyone can locate and find anyone's base without even being on the server, they can do so in a single player game seed uninhibited by admin policing.
Hate to say it but, with that many hours playing 7d2d, it makes sense you find so much boring. Hopefully once the game goes gold there will be enough new changes to keep your attention.

My gut tells me most with that many hours will be done with the game by then.

 
We change things that are crude placeholders. Stuff that was hacked in with the meager engine capabilities of 2015-16. We always wanted this sytem, people just got used to to crude placeholder even though it was horrible. Who are these "more intelligent players"? Don't like it? Mod it out. I hate vanilla Oblivion leveling and used a mod that was way better IMO. You don't have to like everything we do, but if you like 60% of it and play for more than 20 hours, I think we did a great job considering all the 60 dollar turds out there people play for 10 minutes then delete and forget about.
At the end of the day I wanted a game that let you talk about what build or class you created, and have a skill an attribute and perk system that let you play how you wanted to play not how to grind stone axes and what other exploits are the best cheesy way to cheese your way to being OP.

Its not that we don't care about the customer. A few squeaky wheels might not like this or that, but overall its much more entertaining than ever in most players opinions. There isn't one compelling argument that is convincing that A16 skill system was better. People need to play a long term game of 200 hours before judging. Sorry its not end game in 15 hours like A15 was. So until some time has passed we can't change anything or really get a clear picture about what is better or worse.

And this is off topic anyway, I wanted to talk about why players can't build what they want to build. The single land claim issue is noted but not easily solved.
I think your goal is right on, and I also think you're correct, strictly-speaking about the need for more playtime in A17. I think some of us "smarter players" (lol) have a really good grasp of A16, but maybe actually need more time to have the same grasp of A17 as a unique offering... unless we find we don't WANT to have the same time in it... Kinda feel like I'm being subjected to some frustrating stuff due to the process.

I wish you folks would move heaven and earth to bring multiple LCBs into the new Unity engine. The default protected zone of your average server would not have kept my interest as long as the ability to protect larger, odd-shaped, or multiple separate areas did. Creative mode is all very well, but I like to build my structures in the context of the regular (PVE) game, and in a social setting where they can be appreciated and used/shared.

The depth of bedrock and the lack of safety underground is a big deal to me. I'm the kind of person that will go swim in the ocean or a large lake instead of a pool any chance I get, because of the freedom it offers. In a pool I'm only allowed to go 14-18' down, and can only swim so far before I am forced to turn around. I'm talking about freedom. I hope this changes in the A17 RWG, because for me going from A16's gloriously huge and potentially very deep maps to A17 was like having to go to the pool instead of ever being able to go to the ocean/lake again. As for the safety aspect, I feel that there is no reward for the work involved in large excavation projects if the zombies have an infinite ability to sense and reach you through all of that solid rock.

 
No, I complain about getting too much loot from zombies. It doesn't make sense to have everything thrown at you at day 7. And why do people need rewards so damn bad for horde nights? I mean, you do realize that's what the main part of the game right? SUrviving the blood moon hordes? So how about you enjoy killing the zombies and defending your base without dying, and have gratitude/satisfaction in seeing the morning sun pop up and pick off the remaining stragglers, repair the damage and prepare for the next horde night.
The game isn't 7 days to horde 900 chests of loot. Its 7 days to die unless you counter the blood moon with your badassness/cunning.
But every other aspect of the game gives rewards for doing things.

- Looting a house gives loot for the risk.

- Killing a zombies gives exp for the risk.

- Gathering gives resources and exp for the time put in.

- Building literally gives you your base.

- Crafting items gives you a new tool to use.

- Horde night, on the other hand requires you to do everything above and risk your base and your life and put in more active effort than any other night. For nothing.

And yes, I stay on horde night anyway for the illusion of it, but why NOT have a reward? Every other experience in this game has one, but we just skip the biggest experience when it comes to rewarding it?

 
But every other aspect of the game gives rewards for doing things.
- Looting a house gives loot for the risk.

- Killing a zombies gives exp for the risk.

- Gathering gives resources and exp for the time put in.

- Building literally gives you your base.

- Crafting items gives you a new tool to use.

- Horde night, on the other hand requires you to do everything above and risk your base and your life and put in more active effort than any other night. For nothing.

And yes, I stay on horde night anyway for the illusion of it, but why NOT have a reward? Every other experience in this game has one, but we just skip the biggest experience when it comes to rewarding it?
Because you get loot from literally everywhere else. In A16 and before, you could just stay in your damn base for the entire game aside from some resource gathering. The only hitch people have with no zombie loot is they're used to it from previous builds. The reward is SURVIVING. not everything has to be a physical item for it to be a reward.

Accomplishment of survival is a reward.

 
As far as building goes, I just keep one structure for hordes either next to my base or I make a tunnel between that and my base. Underground base is not a problem at all... just don't expect to sit there forever and avoid the hordes. It is still best to have something else to take them out. Once I started doing this, it was a relief to stop worrying about them destroying what I actually cared about.

 
Because you get loot from literally everywhere else. In A16 and before, you could just stay in your damn base for the entire game aside from some resource gathering. The only hitch people have with no zombie loot is they're used to it from previous builds. The reward is SURVIVING. not everything has to be a physical item for it to be a reward.
Accomplishment of survival is a reward.
I should damn well be able to stay in my base if I want to. Don't nerf the experience to the point where I can't be self-reliant just because you don't have the imagination to simply and realistically limit the loot being carried by zombies to what a person might have been carrying before they succumbed to the virus, leaving the appropriate/bigger stuff to be looted in town or in the bigger city. And leave the damn corpses around for a little while so that I can get from them what we all know is there--bones! Not gonna mention rotten meat here, because I believe all it's good for as of this release is food, and I don't think this game needs an element of cannibalism.

 
Well, THrone, you can play Rust as a pacifist, or Goldeneye roleplaying a non-violent priest, doom as a demon sympathizer, but it won't work and you can't demand the devs to change the game just because you want to do something that the game wasn't made for.

Okay so let's make zombies drop ripped up clothing, some watches, a wallet. Maybe an oddball pistol. Is that really loot? So you don't think the game needs cannibalism, but want rotten flesh from human-zombies?

*shakes head*

It's not imagination, it's being realistic in keeping the game a survival game that has a goal of surviving the zombie blood moon hordes. They are not loot-carrying presents every 7 damn days. That's the game. Not a game that adapts to you specific desires to sit in a base and do nothing but collect loot from zombies. ANd, somehow, eat rotten human flesh and not be a cannibal.

 
Don't make it personal to try to distract from the fact that it was a bad suggestion. Not impressed. Don't be so concerned with how I like to play, unless you're looking for a quarrel that we're not supposed to have in these forums. Getting loot from zombies is a pretty obvious thing. Terrible idea to nerf it. Gameplay is king, but realism is important too. Not getting anything from fully dressed undead folks aside from the very odd bag is a step down in realism. So is pretending that zombies don't have bones. Bigger/better loot at POI's than you would realistically find on a zombie's person is absolutely enough motivation to get people out and looting. It was a short-sighted argument.

 
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You CAN play any decent RPG as a pacifist, that should be a basic option in a role-playing game.

Given that humanity managed to survive for millennia without technology I really should be able to struggle along without having to visit a city. I should be able to find potatoes and corn growing wild every now and again.

Technology improves our chance of survival but it's not necessary for our survival. People managed to till land before the iron age.

 
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A zombie should have the same thing in their pockets as they had as a human, unless zombies are kleptomaniacs. That would be a few pieces of metal from coins and keys, a few pieces of paper from cash, and maybe a gun (this IS set in America after all).

 
I would argue that maybe some would be carrying a little more for having tried to survive the onset of the zombie apocalypse.

 
Hate to say it but, with that many hours playing 7d2d, it makes sense you find so much boring. Hopefully once the game goes gold there will be enough new changes to keep your attention.
My gut tells me most with that many hours will be done with the game by then.
Actually No, I still loved the fk out of the game 16.4 the issue for me was stability issues where buildings would just keep randomly collapsing despite proper building supports, I mean a hole just collapses from bedrock, what the hell ?

I got bored 16.4 because most of the people I enjoyed playing with, stopped playing, rivals went to other games. I enjoy base building a lot so I kept busy but with the SI problems I couldn't as stuff kept collapsing.

I get so bored with the game now because they increased across the board the amount of tedious and needless amount of work needed to accomplish anything simple.

3 Headshots per zed is tedious, Zeds shouldn't be surviving multiple head shots from gun and bows, but quality no longer affects damage and just affects durability, which is pointless really, I literally see no point to craft or obtain highest quality/BIS gear if that's the case.

We change things that are crude placeholders. Stuff that was hacked in with the meager engine capabilities of 2015-16. We always wanted this sytem, people just got used to to crude placeholder even though it was horrible. Who are these "more intelligent players"? Don't like it? Mod it out. I hate vanilla Oblivion leveling and used a mod that was way better IMO. You don't have to like everything we do, but if you like 60% of it and play for more than 20 hours, I think we did a great job considering all the 60 dollar turds out there people play for 10 minutes then delete and forget about.

Dont like it, mod it out.
Another rhetoric I tire greatly of. Its almost funny at this point as its the most go-to answer I get, modding out of a terrible mechanic or system isn't a justifying answer to leaving it like crap. Sorry.

Even though your "cruder" system placeholder was more fun and enjoyable than this chaotic mess of a current direction you keep taking,Artificial/Superficial difficulty, coupled with "HAH!GOTCHA!" moments everywhere and you rob the player of every basic ability down to bag space and leave us with only being able to cook a boiled egg, meaning the way I play the game my first play-through will pretty much be how I play on subsequent play-throughs, It boils down to a META linear build which everyone is forced to pretty much take with minor tweaks or adjustments along the way save for some small decision turns.

At the end of the day I wanted a game that let you talk about what build or class you created, and have a skill an attribute and perk system that let you play how you wanted to play not how to grind stone axes and what other exploits are the best cheesy way to cheese your way to being OP.
You can still have that, you can always still have that but the way I have to play is a tedious grind that bores the ever living crap out of me. (Insane difficulty, 9 Arrows+ per headshot to kill a zed, thats not HARD thats TEDIOUS, and Boring. Please understand the difference, make your boss understand the difference, this tedious early content stretching is dissuading players from the game and making it mandatory to circumvent whatever possible out of sheer boredom.

Its not that we don't care about the customer. A few squeaky wheels might not like this or that, but overall its much more entertaining than ever in most players opinions. There isn't one compelling argument that is convincing that A16 skill system was better. People need to play a long term game of 200 hours before judging. Sorry its not end game in 15 hours like A15 was. So until some time has passed we can't change anything or really get a clear picture about what is better or worse.

And this is off topic anyway, I wanted to talk about why players can't build what they want to build. The single land claim issue is noted but not easily solved.
Squeaky..Wheels? You're referring to your veteran players like we're dull/lackluster??

I have played your game since 2012, that makes me a squeaky wheel? Cute.

New players don't know anything different, anything new and different is seen in a positive light to them.

There is a compelling argument, I keep screaming it at you, over, and over and over.

TEDIOUS, ARTIFICIAL, DIFFICULTY. "WASTES MY TIME." I'm doing the same repetitive tasks over and over.

Who are these "more intelligent players"?
Your players who've played for a long enough time that understand the game on a much greater level, your players who think outside of the box.Players that have experienced all your game modes, all difficulties, Single/Multi/PVP/PVE and experienced other survival games similar.

Whats hidden to most players isn't hidden to them.

The way you ask makes it seem like intelligent players can't exist or something.

And this is off topic anyway, I wanted to talk about why players can't build what they want to build. The single land claim issue is noted but not easily solved.
Yep, that's a huge issue, only having one claim block. The main reason I don't even want to play multiplayer because I can't build a properly large/defended base because I'm limited to only one freaking land claim.

Being confined to a smaller building area is a HUUUUUUGE disadvantage, because you need more space to hide your loot, if they only have one small room to work with and a couple other doors, you'll log into being cleaned out every day after work almost.

Us veteran players that do lots of raiding/pvp are very crafty and determined players, you pretty much have to make raiding your base still livable and workable, but strong enough to stop raiders from getting to far.

Your base has to be strong enough to by rule of thumb, strong enough to withstand 4 players augering for 10 hours, if your base can sustain that without being cleared out, your base is along the lines of "Better"

If you kill all 4 players and they cannot get their bags back, then your base is legendary.

Small bases also tend to get collapsed, more space = better if you can produce enough resources to maintain and upgrade it.

Since you love to build large castles (Btw that castle screen you shared was MAJESTIC I would love to explore that! )

If anything I would revert that to how it was in 16.4.

Actually its very easy.

Keep Land claims from 16.4 how they were and create another block that does just what you want which we can only have one of, remove the zombie anti-spawn from older land claim ect. Its really not hard if you think about it and I don't mind using two different blocks if I only have to use one of them once.

There is a bug in multiplayer that lets you see everyone else's claims.

Bad, Bad bad bad bad bad!

For single player Its not a big issue how I build as long as zed stay out of it, so resources I would grind repetitively for multiplayer was enjoyable because I was doing it to keep other players out, I don't have to do that in single player I build differently.

 
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