PC So this is where roland said to go to gripe about a17 and the early release...

100% disagree with this, respectfully.
I'm looking into Streaming myself as a hobby and finding out it's a lot more complicated than people think.

Some of the best streamers have scripts, edits, videos to create, tons of social media to update, a lot of information to read to keep up with like technology and political/social climate... and the list goes on.

Sometimes for that three hour stream there's 8 hours of work going on behind the scenes.

Sorry but, can't agree with you one bit.
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I could see me getting in trouble as a streamer with how much of a special flower people are these days and how easly people get offended over the dumbest things. It actually makes me sick how the world is today. People losing their careers over something some random person said that has no evidence whatsoever to back it up. Its just getting stupid these days. Then we got people complaining about stuff like sleeping beauty and such today. I mean where is society going these days? This is another topic though. I just have a habit of speaking my mind about things and I don't bother to filter it for those special flowers who are easly offended.

 
I don't see how it'd hurt TFP. Unless I am missing something here, if someone would point it out that'd be great.
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I guess I didn't say it directly. So, It would not critically hurt TFP's if no one watched any streamers, as 7D2D is a great product and great products are mostly immune to marketing (both good and bad). But it would hurt them at least a little. (The added people watching the streamers that own the game would help marketing exposure).

How little would it hurt TFP? I really don't know, but they would have less money by 2019 if they didn't do it this way.

 
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Another one who misses the point completly. As for streamers being hard working? you sit there and play videogames like the rest of us, Get off your high horse please. Your just a gamer like the rest of us. Nothing more, nothing less. Were all gamers here.
That said, I still don't see how releasing it to all hurts anyone. Other than streamers wanting to feel special it seems, as you've proven in that post there. Don't get me wrong I watch the odd streamer myself, mostly when I wanna check out a new game to see how it is, better to watch someone actually playing it than some docotored promo video that more often than not looks nothing like the actual game when you play it.
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I don't think he missed your point at all but I think you are too full of venom that you can't think straight. You talk about how worthless they are and then admit you utilize their services because their streams are more honest than the doctored company promos. You say they are all asshats or mostly all asshats but then say they are gamers like the rest of us nothing more nothing less.

Here are my reasons you were wanting but I doubt you'll think them good enough:

Offering exclusive access to a build 16 months in the making is what got us over 100 streamers from many countries willing to show our game in lieu of other games in their rotations. We wanted to attract streamers and so we offered something better than simply streaming what everyone already has.

The event is an exciting preview of A17. Notice how movie teaser trailers come out BEFORE the movie is released? That is because people are excited about those trailers for the very reason that they have not watched the movie. Yesterday my wife was showing everyone the trailer for Live Action Aladdin coming out next year because the trailer was exciting. Guess what aren't super interesting any longer once you've seen the movie? The teaser trailers. There is already a lot of excitement building for this weekend because people are going to get to see A17 for the first time in it's entirety. The surprises we've been biting our tongues to not say....The things some of you have guessed but I wasn't allowed to confirm....all of that will come out this weekend for those who watch and it will be exciting to watch because we haven't played it yet.

There are lots of other positive reasons to do the streaming event but the two biggest reasons are to attract streamers to do it by making it an exclusive preview and to make the event an exciting preview event.

Now here's the thing. This event is not meant to be a slap in the face of existing customers. So there is no intentional offense meant. In addition there are many people who aren't taking it as being spit upon. In fact, they are pleased and grateful for the event because they enjoy that sort of entertainment. So if TFP isn't trying to be malicious and it isn't universally seen as being insulting by many existing customers--well, then it's you and your prejudice of other gamers in our community that you claim "are just like us nothing more and nothing less". Why not be happy for their good fortune and if you don't like most streams for entertainment but do like them for information-- why not watch the testers who will be playing all weekend and bug hunting and answering questions? That, at least, must hold some interest.

 
I don't think he missed your point at all but I think you are too full of venom that you can't think straight. You talk about how worthless they are and then admit you utilize their services because their streams are more honest than the doctored company promos. You say they are all asshats or mostly all asshats but then say they are gamers like the rest of us nothing more nothing less.
Here are my reasons you were wanting but I doubt you'll think them good enough:

Offering exclusive access to a build 16 months in the making is what got us over 100 streamers from many countries willing to show our game in lieu of other games in their rotations. We wanted to attract streamers and so we offered something better than simply streaming what everyone already has.

The event is an exciting preview of A17. Notice how movie teaser trailers come out BEFORE the movie is released? That is because people are excited about those trailers for the very reason that they have not watched the movie. Yesterday my wife was showing everyone the trailer for Live Action Aladdin coming out next year because the trailer was exciting. Guess what aren't super interesting any longer once you've seen the movie? The teaser trailers. There is already a lot of excitement building for this weekend because people are going to get to see A17 for the first time in it's entirety. The surprises we've been biting our tongues to not say....The things some of you have guessed but I wasn't allowed to confirm....all of that will come out this weekend for those who watch and it will be exciting to watch because we haven't played it yet.

There are lots of other positive reasons to do the streaming event but the two biggest reasons are to attract streamers to do it by making it an exclusive preview and to make the event an exciting preview event.

Now here's the thing. This event is not meant to be a slap in the face of existing customers. So there is no intentional offense meant. In addition there are many people who aren't taking it as being spit upon. In fact, they are pleased and grateful for the event because they enjoy that sort of entertainment. So if TFP isn't trying to be malicious and it isn't universally seen as being insulting by many existing customers--well, then it's you and your prejudice of other gamers in our community that you claim "are just like us nothing more and nothing less". Why not be happy for their good fortune and if you don't like most streams for entertainment but do like them for information-- why not watch the testers who will be playing all weekend and bug hunting and answering questions? That, at least, must hold some interest.
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No, they are good enough, I get it now and the reason for it. Know of any streamers on the list that have played a16 alot on their stream? I kinda wanna see how they adapt to the new stuff. I don't watch many myself, mostly ones a friend links me when they showing a game he thinks i'd be intersted in.

 
Siv's point is that the chosen streamers would stream it anyway, so why give them a 3 day advance when they could release it en masse and lose nothing.

Tfp's point is that by limiting it, it actually incentivizes the streamers and their base, so that it drives up their views for this "event".

Who's right? No way to tell.

Will a streamers viewership go up that night? Sure. People who are interested in 7days but cannot play it due to lack of access, will indeed visit a streamer's channel, thus raising viewership.

But will those numbers drive /new/ customers to check out the fuss? Who knows.

...as to his OTHER point, that streamers are selfish and worthless pos's, I used to believe that too, and still do for some.

Then I met the bearded's, who showed me that streaming can be a good time, and then I saw a small *smidgen* of what Kage does, and saw they bust their ass preparing, editing and promoting.

So... Yeh. That.

 
Yeah Roland's got it.

Promoting a product is equally as important as the product.

I'm not some joe shmoe saying this.

I have a Masters Degree in Business majoring in Marketing and Advertising.

I can tell you after more than twenty years of business experience, getting a product is easy.

Finding people who will buy that product is the hard part.

In this case, TFP decided to add Streamers to their marketing campaign.

BRILLIANT idea especially in the wake of Activision/Blizzard's huge blunder.

Not only did Blizzard show they are greedy corporate jerks now, they showed they are out of touch with gamers.

TFP embracing Modders and Streamers shows the exact opposite and they could not have picked a better time to do it.

I fully support their decision to include Streamers.

And OF COURSE Streamers get the product first. What's the point otherwise?

It's like what Roland said, this is like a Movie Preview.

 
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Siv's point is that the chosen streamers would stream it anyway, so why give them a 3 day advance when they could release it en masse and lose nothing.
Tfp's point is that by limiting it, it actually incentivizes the streamers and their base, so that it drives up their views for this "event".

Who's right? No way to tell.

Will a streamers viewership go up that night? Sure. People who are interested in 7days but cannot play it due to lack of access, will indeed visit a streamer's channel, thus raising viewership.

But will those numbers drive /new/ customers to check out the fuss? Who knows.

...as to his OTHER point, that streamers are selfish and worthless pos's, I used to believe that too, and still do for some.

Then I met the bearded's, who showed me that streaming can be a good time, and then I saw a small *smidgen* of what Kage does, and saw they bust their ass preparing, editing and promoting.

So... Yeh. That.
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Just for the record, same story goes for modders. So ...Yeh. That.

Cheers

 
I'm completely unable to see what all the fuss is about here.

Personally, I never watch streamers. I might watch the occasional video tutorial if it's showing something specific, but just watching other people play video games isn't something that appeals to me at all. So I won't be watching any of the streamers that are playing over the weekend.

Having said that, do I mind that they'll have access to the game earlier than me? Not at all. I'll get access on Monday (well, time zones being what they are, it might be Tuesday GMT when I get it if it's not released until Monday night PST) regardless of whether or not the streamers get it earlier, so it's no skin off my nose if they do.

I really don't understand why people are whining and complaining about this.

 
I'm completely unable to see what all the fuss is about here.
Personally, I never watch streamers. I might watch the occasional video tutorial if it's showing something specific, but just watching other people play video games isn't something that appeals to me at all. So I won't be watching any of the streamers that are playing over the weekend.

Having said that, do I mind that they'll have access to the game earlier than me? Not at all. I'll get access on Monday (well, time zones being what they are, it might be Tuesday GMT when I get it if it's not released until Monday night PST) regardless of whether or not the streamers get it earlier, so it's no skin off my nose if they do.

I really don't understand why people are whining and complaining about this.
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Its been a LONG year for some people... :)

I started checking out the streamers during the A16 deal. I figure my character would know SOMETHING about the apocalypse, so watching the playthrough for game mechanics and the basic stuff mostly makes sense, but some are just fun to watch.

 
Personally couldn't care less if I get it 3 days earlier because already waited this long and I work from home atm (so the weekend doesn't really matter), but

-mass steam notifications on a Friday night with people logging in 7DTD would also be great for promotion, better than on a Monday at least.

-attracting fans of streamers who don't own the game can also happen while the rest are playing it.

-attracting streamers themselves can happen in many other ways like giving away some keys.

-those who are fans of streaming and those who don't watch streams are more likely to do what they always did, no matter what happened.

Perhaps the timing isn't ideal. As for streaming:

-yes it requires work and most importantly requires some points in charisma to be popular. Does it require as much work as the average job? It does not, but jobs, like people, aren't inherently equal. Just look at the Kardashians.

-are steamers asshats? Approx, as much as any other random group of people, which means most probably are :p

-is streaming a real form of entertainment? Yes, therefore the need for a crusade (I don't even watch football/soccer).

 
Siv's point is that the chosen streamers would stream it anyway, so why give them a 3 day advance when they could release it en masse and lose nothing.
Tfp's point is that by limiting it, it actually incentivizes the streamers and their base, so that it drives up their views for this "event".

Who's right? No way to tell.

Will a streamers viewership go up that night? Sure. People who are interested in 7days but cannot play it due to lack of access, will indeed visit a streamer's channel, thus raising viewership.

But will those numbers drive /new/ customers to check out the fuss? Who knows.

...as to his OTHER point, that streamers are selfish and worthless pos's, I used to believe that too, and still do for some.

Then I met the bearded's, who showed me that streaming can be a good time, and then I saw a small *smidgen* of what Kage does, and saw they bust their ass preparing, editing and promoting.

So... Yeh. That.
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Yeah thats what I was trying to say, but just couldn't seem to word it right like at all. Some streamers are a blast to watch, but alot of them just got way to big of an ego to the point they come off as a total jerk, it seems to be the more subs/followers streamers have the more of a jerk they tend to be in most cases, not all but most, they let it go to their heads.

I do hope when the streamers get a17 they will release some patch notes publically, I'm really intersted in reading the full patch notes for a17.

 
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No, they are good enough, I get it now and the reason for it. Know of any streamers on the list that have played a16 alot on their stream? I kinda wanna see how they adapt to the new stuff. I don't watch many myself, mostly ones a friend links me when they showing a game he thinks i'd be intersted in.
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*raises hand*

Been here since alpha 1. During alpha 16 I did hundreds of videos. Still have them coming out. I had 4 7 days to die videos in my backlog when I found out about this weekend. In 2 days I will have put out all 4 videos.

- - - Updated - - -

Just for the record, same story goes for modders. So ...Yeh. That.
Cheers
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Beat me to it. I'm super hyped for a17 medieval mod!

 
Just for the record, same story goes for modders. So ...Yeh. That.
Cheers
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Except for one point: Three days exclusive is not anything a modder will drool over.

Modders by the way got a big, no, A BIG present in A17. Not only the new buff system, but a new way to package and modularize mods. It is already christmas time for modders.

 
*raises hand*
Been here since alpha 1. During alpha 16 I did hundreds of videos. Still have them coming out. I had 4 7 days to die videos in my backlog when I found out about this weekend. In 2 days I will have put out all 4 videos.!
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Sweet! I didn't see you on the first list so I thought you had other plans. Will you stream as well?

 
The release of A17e is only an experimental. It's not a release of the definitive Alpha 17.0. How they test that experimental and who and when they decide to release it to is their own strategy. It isn't for every entitled whiner that doesn't have enough brain cells to comprehend this. The release is a HUGE gamble at this point. With so much time invested and build up TFP should be really nervous about how this weekend goes. If the streamers get it first for showcasing and 50% can't even get the game to load then that's some serious egg on their face. It's a little bit less risky if they just release an experimental to everyone and make it very clear that there will be game breaking problems up front. The fact they chose to release this way and build up hype around the streamers is a big gamble that they chose. No matter how you feel about the streamers getting it first you have to at least acknowledge that TFP is doing it the way they want despite the risk. It takes some mighty beefy balls to do it this way.

 
Personally couldn't care less if I get it 3 days earlier because already waited this long and I work from home atm (so the weekend doesn't really matter), but
-mass steam notifications on a Friday night with people logging in 7DTD would also be great for promotion, better than on a Monday at least.

-attracting fans of streamers who don't own the game can also happen while the rest are playing it.

-attracting streamers themselves can happen in many other ways like giving away some keys.

-those who are fans of streaming and those who don't watch streams are more likely to do what they always did, no matter what happened.

Perhaps the timing isn't ideal. As for streaming:

-yes it requires work and most importantly requires some points in charisma to be popular. Does it require as much work as the average job? It does not, but jobs, like people, aren't inherently equal. Just look at the Kardashians.

-are steamers asshats? Approx, as much as any other random group of people, which means most probably are :p

-is streaming a real form of entertainment? Yes, therefore the need for a crusade (I don't even watch football/soccer).
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As I recall, TFP had stated(believe them if you will) that they would release it on a Monday for the masses either way, the early release for streamers is just that -- early so streamers can build hype and convince new people to buy(and a few "old" people to come back to) a game that has been around for a long time and has on a few rare occasions been declared "dead" by some individuals.

The other thing I'd add is that while yes, streamers can stream while everyone else is playing... going through a couple of extra steps to be able to call something "exclusive" is actually really good for building hype for some people. Which means more excited streamers, hopefully better streams and hopefully more views. So they're looking at that for their hype rather than just people with the game already installed seeing it queued for an update.

Now would all of this be more effective if it had happened near the time it was announced instead of five months later? Maybe, but there's always something to screw up your plans. Either way I'm personally okay with it since I don't watch live streams and I don't even know yet if I'll get the experimental or just wait until stable.

 
Point for y'all: it was a stream that got me into this game.

I prefer games that are native to Linux. So, I'd check the streamers to see what the games looked like while actually being played live (vs canned video), and came across 7DTD being played by GamingOnLinux.

Game looked interesting, as I'd never bought or played a survival type game before. Within a couple hrs, I'd bought the game, joined them on their server, and an epic save my clueless backside run began. That was in Jan. I now have 1234 hrs in the game. (yes, 1234 lol. just checked steam, amusing)

So yes, streamers do get people to buy games. Not by saying BUY THIS, but by playing it, reacting to it, and making it look like fun.

Looking forward to getting my grubby mitts on 17e, and seeing how many things from 16 no longer apply. (methinks the not dying part is gonna be toast. well, except for ladders. I totally suck on ladders) ;p

 
As I recall, TFP had stated(believe them if you will) that they would release it on a Monday for the masses either way, the early release for streamers is just that -- early so streamers can build hype and convince new people to buy(and a few "old" people to come back to) a game that has been around for a long time and has on a few rare occasions been declared "dead" by some individuals.
The other thing I'd add is that while yes, streamers can stream while everyone else is playing... going through a couple of extra steps to be able to call something "exclusive" is actually really good for building hype for some people. Which means more excited streamers, hopefully better streams and hopefully more views. So they're looking at that for their hype rather than just people with the game already installed seeing it queued for an update.

Now would all of this be more effective if it had happened near the time it was announced instead of five months later? Maybe, but there's always something to screw up your plans. Either way I'm personally okay with it since I don't watch live streams and I don't even know yet if I'll get the experimental or just wait until stable.
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Yes they had. I am saying that they could have gone about it like everyone else by incentivizing streamers to stream the game by featuring them, giving them keys etc, to get enough streamers to market the game. Even if they released it at the same time for everyone, it's not like those who used to watch streams would stop watching and vice versa, or that new players wouldn't get as hyped. In fact it can work the other way with a new player that watches a version that hasn't been yet released or sees how many people are online currently in this game on Steam. About the timing - I am not talking about the release delay. I think it would be more effective releasing the game for everyone on a Friday to get a better player spike. But, as I said earlier, like you, it doesn't affect me either, because I don't have a fixed work schedule.

So yes, streamers do get people to buy games.
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Of course they do, it's just that I don't think there is much benefit to an exclusive release, if they can use other ways to get streamers.

 
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