PC So this is where roland said to go to gripe about a17 and the early release...

18 days of Experimental? I'm sure TFP dreams of such but seriously doubt they expect it to be less than double that. I say late January minimum for stable.
It's ready when it's ready. Right now it's pretty much ready for Experimental. ;)

I don't think F76 is targeting the same kind of audience.

In that game you can not have a (permanent) base of any kind, no lasting effect on the world, no community of "acquaintances" because you log into a new random server every time.

It's more of a game where you log in to kill some bozos. Nothing wrong with that.

 
The 18 days was just a spitball number as it'd depend on steam sales. Again, not concrete, but following a similar path and delaying to January to hit the Steam New Year sale would also be a pretty good shout IMO. :)

Fallout 76 literally just released. The reason I bring that up is because most people I've spoken to are either in the "It's a bit meh, but I'm gonna give it the weekend" camp (which overlaps with streamers hyping up A17-E for marketing purposes) or "I'm enjoying it and going to stick with it" camp.

That's why I brought it up. I'm in the "meh" camp myself and will be playing A17-E on Monday. :) It is something that needs to be considered though.

 
The focus has always been around experimental and not around marketing. We are going to experimental because it is ready now and we are doing a publicity event to lead into it. We are not doing a publicity event and then tagging on the experimental release.

You said I shot down your arguments in the other thread and yet you never responded to what I said in response nor did you address my points in this thread-- and yet you admit that what I said was compelling enough to be considered hits that brought down your argument. I'll quote what I said and if you'd like to refute it or at least address it alongside your own comments that would be great.

1) A17 Experimental is what we're talking about with all this release date stuff and the purpose of experimental is get some stress testing accomplished by the community. It isn't to compete with other games in the marketplace. Competing for market share is secondary to developing the game and if the development stage is ready for community input right when a bunch of other games are being released then so be it. In fact for experimental it might even be better with only 1000's playing instead of 10,000's at least at first so some distraction by other games is perfect.
2)The Pimps work through holidays all the time. Madmole has his turkey thigh in one hand while he redoes the textures and lighting again with his other hand. faatal can see what is in his stocking even as he creates the mod for 3 or 4 passengers on the jeep. Nobody is going to rush through experimental with a half-hearted attitude. Not when Santa sees all. In all seriousness the dev team loves working on this game. It isn't a chore and taking their time to do it right is what has everyone else so upset all the time. They won't change that.
 
Let's hope not? =P
Of course there will be some bugs. It's inevitable.

Our testers are working hard but they have the impossible job of testing a game that is in active development.
I expect bugs myself in the experemental build, some bugs are really hard to find without a bunch of people playing it to run into them. I've not really complained about bugs in 7dtd, I know its early access and it'll probally have some bugs/issues. Hell most AAA gone gold games have a ton of bugs at release (Bethesda ring any bells?). I do admit TFP is far better at fixing bugs than Bethesda is. I was going to buy Fallout 76 but decided not to bother and wait, as it doesn't seem all that great and it has a ton of issues that just shouldn't have been in there this late in its dev cycle.. and it still does have them even now.

 
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I was imagining more like...

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I still don´t see any impact on the marketing if existing players get it at the same time. There is literally no negative effect on the marketing if we get it at the same day as the streamers.

Giving it out to both at the same time is win/win. Marketing for the streamers and no angry existing customers.

Go try any other argument then marketing please.

But anyways, more importnant: Why no free weekends? Way more people do start steam on a daily basis than than people watching streams on a daily basis. Without doing any reasearch i say at least 4 times as much and that´s propably way under the real numbers.

Free weekend reaches every steam user starting steam. Not only those who watch people that play that certain genre on twitch.

Do you have to pay steam for free weekends? Or what is the reason they don´t do it?

 
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Because its their game and decided thats how its gonna go?

It has been a success in previous release. As i understand it was such a success that they are gonna repeat it for A17, A18 etc etc.

Just go with that flow. You have no influence over it. Why stress yourself like that?

Cheers

 
I simply couldn't care less about experimental release.

I'm going to wait for stable and then a month longer, so all the crap gets hotfixed, so I can finally play without having forced world restart every single week.

 
I simply couldn't care less about experimental release.
I'm going to wait for stable and then a month longer, so all the crap gets hotfixed, so I can finally play without having forced world restart every single week.
It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of people do that actually. A17e0 will almost certainly not be anywhere near as stable as a17.4(5?6?) will end up at.

 
The focus has always been around experimental and not around marketing. We are going to experimental because it is ready now and we are doing a publicity event to lead into it. We are not doing a publicity event and then tagging on the experimental release.
You said I shot down your arguments in the other thread and yet you never responded to what I said in response nor did you address my points in this thread-- and yet you admit that what I said was compelling enough to be considered hits that brought down your argument. I'll quote what I said and if you'd like to refute it or at least address it alongside your own comments that would be great.
I originally didn't respond because...

1) I'd just woken up so wanted coffee. Wanted to kickstart the brain rather than give you a half-baked, possibly rambling reply.

2) I'm pretty dumb and forgot. ;)

Really should've replied after acknowledging it in this thread, but see point 2 regarding being dumb. So, regarding your reply...

1) If the purpose is some stress testing, then you absolutely need to bear in mind that releasing the same week as an AAA game in a similar genre (regardless of what Gazz said regarding 7DTD and FO76 not being the same, the CONSUMER isn't going to see it that way) is not going to help achieve this goal. As it stands, I doubt most people will be playing it much longer than a week based off feedback from various friends... but pretty much all of them have said they don't care about A17-E right now and will be going hard on FO76 instead. That is absolutely going to eat into the potential tester base by quite a substantial amount.

2) This part I will admit was partially an assumption on my end. I say partially because I do remember WAY back in the single-digit alphas, they often took holidays off, even if just a day or two... and honestly? I think it would be well deserved AND expected this year since they've all been working their collective nuts off to get A17 out as quickly as possible. So, my apologies on that assumption in this regard.

I'm going to address the top half of your comment as point 3. :)

3) If this is true, then what's the stream team for? I don't mean to be sarcastic asking this, but I've only been given two explanations for streamers getting early access.

The first is that they're going to be streaming it early to get the hype going. Lately, hype is exactly how publishers and game devs have been marketing their games (looking at you, Todd Howard) so it's not an unreasonable leap of logic to assume that. I've also had some of the streamers in the program outright TELL me that's what it's for (and been exceptionally rude and elitist when doing so) so I don't think it's unreasonable of me to have that point of view regarding the early access.

As for the second explanation, I have seen folks tell me it's TFP's way of saying "thank you" to the streamers who have promoted the game for god knows how long. I have to say, this is the one I actually prefer over the "hype machine" one I've been fed. But if that is the case, then why don't modders ALSO get access so they can start playing/tinkering with the game? A lot of folks I've chatted to agree that 7DTD likely wouldn't be as popular as it is if it weren't for TFP embracing the modding community and us bunch of crazy sods applying our own spin to their product.

So yeah... I think I covered everything. The reason I mention it being a marketing thing is because that's literally what I've been told... and if that's not the case, then I don't see the point in streamers getting it early.

 
The two main negative effects streaming had last time was 1, current users got butthurt, 2, serious spoilage occurred. I don't think anyone who watched the streams didn't know how to get through the pharmaceutical buildings by the end of the weekend.

That sucked, because it would have been a cool surprise to fall through a floor into a room...

 
I still don´t see any impact on the marketing if existing players get it at the same time. There is literally no negative effect on the marketing if we get it at the same day as the streamers.

1) As it stands, I doubt most people will be playing it much longer than a week based off feedback from various friends... but pretty much all of them have said they don't care about A17-E right now and will be going hard on FO76 instead. That is absolutely going to eat into the potential tester base by quite a substantial amount.
I love how things like "my narrow group of friends" and "since I can't see any logic" become "I'm absolutely right in my position." Classic!

 
Lets make a stand:

Tell everyone you know, NOT to view the streams. That will send a message. In addition to that, you also won't spoil the game for you. Its a win-win.

 
I love how things like "my narrow group of friends" and "since I can't see any logic" become "I'm absolutely right in my position." Classic!
Nice assumption.

Please don't do that.

 
I love how things like "my narrow group of friends" and "since I can't see any logic" become "I'm absolutely right in my position." Classic!
1st....world.....problems. :p

I'm just happy A17 is finally here!!!!

 
Still annoyed at why streamers get first access to a17, release it for all on friday. Its bull♥♥♥♥ that they get access to it first for no damn good reason.
Its a marketing strategy as well as a way to see if there are any more bugs that need to be worked out before final release. Dont get your panties in a bunch. Be happy theyre trying to give it to you as complete as possible.

 
Its a marketing strategy as well as a way to see if there are any more bugs that need to be worked out before final release. Dont get your panties in a bunch. Be happy theyre trying to give it to you as complete as possible.
I know you are fairly new here but there is an unspoken rule.....if the words "be happy" are ever together like that then they have to be proceeded with the words "Don't worry". This has the effect of the song getting stuck in their heads, calming them down and unbunching their panties...

 
I made no assumption. The evidence is in my post.
You actually did.

You made the ASSUMPTION that I believe I'm right due to an ASSUMED small sample size. You don't know how many "friends" I have or how many people I have discussed it with.

So, again, can we not do that please? Can we just stop with the general attitude these forums have of rabidly defending TFP if someone even slightly criticises something?

And if not, can we please try and do it in a polite and well thought out manner? Because I'm honestly sick and tired of people jumping down my throat and coming across as hostile.

Thank you.

 
You actually did.
You made the ASSUMPTION that I believe I'm right due to an ASSUMED small sample size. You don't know how many "friends" I have or how many people I have discussed it with.

So, again, can we not do that please? Can we just stop with the general attitude these forums have of rabidly defending TFP if someone even slightly criticises something?

And if not, can we please try and do it in a polite and well thought out manner? Because I'm honestly sick and tired of people jumping down my throat and coming across as hostile.

Thank you.
I misspoke. I made a small assumption that you don't know "a substantial amount" of the people who will play A17-E. I mean, the average person doesn't know more than about 1,000 people, and that already disqualifies your statement even before we subtract the fact that (it's a good bet) not everybody you know plays 7dtd and that you (probably) didn't speak individually to all of your friends who do and that (by your admission) not all of them are skipping A17-E. Are we down to like 100 people? What a blow!

What if, instead of assuming that I'm "rabidly defending TFP if someone even slightly criticises something," you see that I'm just targeting your hyperbole which you used to justify making an absolute statement. Criticise all you want, but keep it in emotional/perspectival tones rather than attempting to globalize your position. (By the way, to negate an absolute, I only need one counter-example. I think I far exceeded that.)

Finally, as you can see, it was "well thought out," and I don't think it was particularly impolite. If what I said was "jumping down your throat," I'm going to need you to explain your definition of that phrase. (I didn't even address you directly, for crying out loud.)

 
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