PC Smart vs Dumb Zombies?

[Vedui]

Neither option

Pre-A17 was good for hordes. They came for your base and attacked it.

Post-A17 is great for POI's. They find you and kill you without bashing and breaking the whole POI (mostly, not always).

I'd prefer if sleeper zombies had the new AI, and the horde zombies had the old AI + digging/bashing supports if players are detected within a reasonable say 15-20 blocks, else just bash whatever. Of course, fix the spinning stuff A16 introduced, but without the super pathing.

 

[HeLLKnight]

Miscreated game has 12 mutant AI behaviors. I think a17 AI core is a great start point to make variations for every zombie type. For example combine this:

- a18 bandits will be the smartest. Can follow long paths, search for coverage while firing weapons, cooperate between them to surround you, do ambushes.

- new kind of smart zombies (lets call smart ferals): can follow long paths, can jump forward little holes (1 or 2 blocks), avoid the most obvious traps, but do less damage to blocks

- standard zombies can follow only short paths, jump 1 block upward, little random about weak blocks

- ferals like standard but stronger and they run

- police, hawaian and bikers the dumbest: doesn't know jump upward or forward, can't decide which block is weaker other than doors but do a lot of damage to blocks.

- dogs and wolves can jump forward little holes (1 or 2 blocks)

- Other little variations to spiders and screamers

- All of them with less "conga line" and more surround you

- Plus different resistances to blade and bullets (policemans, soldiers) blunt weapons (bikers, hawaians) fire mods (scorched zeds) ice mods (lumberjacks)

 

[MaxTunnerX]

I voted Pre-A17 behaviour.
Bandits I can see being smart. Zombies ought to be (or return to being) dumb.

Hopefully in A18, Bandits inherit zombies current AI.

The primary threat from zombies ought to be their sheer numbers, not their omniscient knowledge of the map I reckon.

Yes, please stop having zombies with PhD, supersenses, superspeed, and unquenchable need for griefing houses nobody is even inside of. Zombies should be slow, dumb, but at the same time somehow resilient (unless you hit them in the head), numerous and dangerous in close range (infection that makes you one of them even with one bite). And most importantly, they should NOT attack blocks just because they are in their path, they should get stuck/get around unless they sense someone on the other side.

But of course, best solution would be a toggle (zombies: smart/dumb). Maybe add that to the poll as well? Also I don't remember stupid zombies in any build. In A16 they were basically blind and deaf, but still smart and fast as ****, not to mention dogs that always run no matter the settings...

 

[Fuffel]

Moin.

I was really excited about the zombies in the first experimental version of the Alpha 17. And even if officially nothing has been changed, something has changed, because the zombies of the stable version of Alpha 17 are largely as dumb as in the Alpha 16.

Example: I am standing in a POI at the end of a corridor. 1 block raised on a wall. The zombies just have to go down the hallway and jump up a block to reach me. Instead, they walk 2 yards into the hallway, break through the wall to the right, walk something that feels like half an hour, outside around and then try to attack from behind, where they have to jump 6 blocks high, which they can not do.

AI is something different. As the AI is now, it is an insult to anyone who plays at higher levels of difficulty because he wants to be challenged.

What I would like to have are zombies whose AI is different in sophistication, depending on the level of difficulty. I play "Survivalist" and "Insane" and I want to have zombies that are not as stupid as someone who plays "Scavenger".

Someone at TFP should try out all sorts of ruses a player can think of, check out all sorts of base architectures, watch streams and LetsPlays, how the players outsmart the zombies, and than build an AI that, at least on the Survivalist and Insane levels, Adapt so that the zombies can not be outwitted by all this ruses.

No matter how. Better pathfinding, stronger opponents or just mass. On Insane, I expect the Bloodmoon Horde to reduce my base to rubble. I want to be forced to think of new defenses, to use more and more materials, and not to build a base for day 14, which I can still use on day 42, because almost nothing is broken.

I play Insane because I want to be challenged. Since I want to have an opponent who can not be easily outwitted with a ramp, a hatch or a handful of spikes. Above all, I want to have blood moon nights that deserve this name. Yesterday I played the 5th Bloodmoon on "Insane", Day 35. And like in the 4 blood moons before, I was able to leave my base at 01:30 and farm resources all around, because nobody came anymore.

This is not "Insane", that's an insult. And the really bad thing is that unlike Vanilla, it works in the current, experimental Darkness Falls Mod. There you are called the whole night and then still have plenty of opponents left. Why does this work better in an experimental mod than in a stable vanilla?

Well, the zombies are just as stupid. But at least the Horde works for that.

With Alpha 17 at the moment, I have to say quite honestly that I can not wait to see stable versions of a Darkness Falls or Ravenhearst Mod that at least challenge me with hard-to-master classes, much slower leveling and really 6 hour bloodmoon. The Alpha 17 Vanilla just can not do that right now.

And to be honest, a construction of alpha 17, where the blood moon horde is over after 2 hours, call a stable version, is an impudence.

 

[Glaston]

Variety is good.

I like how some of the Modded versions of the game have altered behaviour of the zombies.

Varying heights within a type of zombie to make headshots more difficult as in Ravenhearst.

Varying run styles from vanilla.

In Gnamod you can get any type of zombie being a spider and the napalm spitters are awesome.

 

[icharis]

How about a zombie perk system. Give zombies, depending on zombie type and maybe player game stage and difficulty setting, a certain number of points and then have them randomly assigned to a perk chart when a zombie spawns. So one zombie might have more HP, one might do more block damage, one might jump farther and another would calculate a farther path around obstacles.

 

[LuckyStar]

I have no trouble changing it to be more generic before any others come here and get sucked into the world of pedophilia and seal pup violence.

Okay I know I shouldn't laugh but the absurdity of that sentence making it's way into the forums over such an innocuous pole is hysterical!

 

[Frotus]

How about a zombie perk system. Give zombies, depending on zombie type and maybe player game stage and difficulty setting, a certain number of points and then have them randomly assigned to a perk chart when a zombie spawns. So one zombie might have more HP, one might do more block damage, one might jump farther and another would calculate a farther path around obstacles.

Not a bad idea. Insurgency does this with supply points and this allows the server operator to set the number of supply points the CPU AI bots have. Turn it up too much and you get constantly RPG'd by every bot. turn it down too low and they all have small clipped rifles or pistols and aren't too much of a threat outside of their deadly aimbot skills.

 

[webskorpion]

The lack of pathfinding and intelligence of the zombies has always been a major criticism. The zombies should solve no difficult math problems, but find the way to the player. And this wayfinding should also mean that zombies can beat a staircase into the wall at Horde night to get to the player.

I hope for further improvements in the path discovery and „intelligence“ of the zombies.

(Unfortunately, I can only speak very little English. I have used translation program German - English.)

 

[AtomicUs5000]

Moin.Someone at TFP should try out all sorts of ruses a player can think of, check out all sorts of base architectures, watch streams and LetsPlays, how the players outsmart the zombies, and than build an AI that, at least on the Survivalist and Insane levels, Adapt so that the zombies can not be outwitted by all this ruses.

Or release versions of the game for us to test for them, so that they can make changes to it accordingly. Oh wait... nvm.. we are already doing that.

 

[manni44]

Or release versions of the game for us to test for them, so that they can make changes to it accordingly. Oh wait... nvm.. we are already doing that.

why not run experimental 24/7 ? they could just never stop the experimental phase. who does not like experimental still can play stable ....

 

[LuckyStar]

How about a zombie perk system. Give zombies, depending on zombie type and maybe player game stage and difficulty setting, a certain number of points and then have them randomly assigned to a perk chart when a zombie spawns. So one zombie might have more HP, one might do more block damage, one might jump farther and another would calculate a farther path around obstacles.

I think the idea has merit but I wonder how well it would be received.

People are complaining about the tiniest pedantic things already.

imagine giving them something like...

"How are we supposed to know which one is which? I can't even plan anything now.


This game is dumb! I hate TFP cuz they make my l33t sk1ll0rz not work. At least colour them or something!!!! Rabble rabble rabble....!"

 

[AtomicUs5000]

why not run experimental 24/7 ? they could just never stop the experimental phase. who does not like experimental still can play stable ....

I could be wrong, but I think they will still continue the experimentals.

 

[LordoftheMoo]

I like pre-17, but what I'd really like to see is that plus rogue zombies that are incredibly smart. This would also be a great bonus to Ferals, where they have a predator's cunning, but the normal Zs are mindless shamblers. This way you never quite know what you're going to get from them, but the majority are the old fashioned "nrrrghhh..." that are just a nuisance. Then, when you let your guard down, *THWACK* goes the smart one on the back of your head.

 

[IgnyteZero]

I voted pre-alpha 17 but like so many others I don't find that behaviour optimal either. What I and my 7dtd playing friends really want is a combination of old and new. A large part of zombies that behave like the old ones, and a few that behave like the new ones. I also really want to point out that the new spider zombies are a lot more fun to us than the old ones. But this one track mind behaviour of zombies is not only a bit too predictable and exploitable, it's not very zombielike and ruins immersion to a large degree.

 

[lunix57]

Most definitely post A17. While I have issues with it (like I don't think they should know the exact weakest point in a wall). I think it's so vastly improved from A16 I honestly would never go back. Watching zombies run in circles completely destroys immersion while it also made the game incredibly easy. Not to mention underground bunkers....

I think people are struggling at the moment simply because they got too used to the broken A16 AI and aren't changing their strategies or adapting to the new AI. The new AI isn't unbeatable and simply requires a rework of tactics to deal with it.

 

[Reth]

[...]
I think people are struggling at the moment simply because they got too used to the broken A16 AI and aren't changing their strategies or adapting to the new AI. The new AI isn't unbeatable and simply requires a rework of tactics to deal with it.

I just wish people would stop repeating this nonsense. Nobody is struggling. A17 bases are simpler, cheaper to build and easier to maintain. And that's without any AI abuse. In A16 you had to defend your entire perimeter. Now you have to defend a single entry point.

 

[lunix57]

I just wish people would stop repeating this nonsense. Nobody is struggling. A17 bases are simpler, cheaper to build and easier to maintain. And that's without any AI abuse. In A16 you had to defend your entire perimeter. Now you have to defend a single entry point.

Apologies, but it is not non sense. I'm consistently seeing posts where people can't figure out how to build bases anymore and it's always because they are trying to do the same old A16 tricks.

Yes a lot of people have adapted and figured out the new system, but there are still a lot of people who are caught up in their A16 ways.

 

[Arkheias]

Apologies, but it is not non sense. I'm consistently seeing posts where people can't figure out how to build bases anymore and it's always because they are trying to do the same old A16 tricks.
Yes a lot of people have adapted and figured out the new system, but there are still a lot of people who are caught up in their A16 ways.

Most of those people would die no matter which version they were playing. They're just looking for excuses to blame others for their failings.

 

[Roland]

This poll is so evenly split it is amazing.

Bloodmoon behavior of A17 zombies really seems to be the sticking point for most people who hate A17 zombies.

POI exploration seems to be held favorably thanks to the new A17 behavior.

Most people are hoping for a mixture going forward and not wanting the fact that the zombies know where you are to be so blatant and obvious.