PC RWG Just When you think it can't get any worse

Well I really like the new maps and all that play on my server do as well. People want boats and fishing but get upset by more water......
You cant make everyone happy.......
Click to expand...
Boats and fishing is great.

Thou tbh even if it is in the game already, it won't work with the 17.2 world gen. The 17.2 RWG give you a big island surrounded by water. With most of the POI located away from water, you won't be using that boat very often.

 
Art

You are welcome to your opinion but what Madmole is doing is exactly what most people on the forum hope that he's doing...Looking at player feedback and factoring that into his decisions. Sorry but the game is his. He has always made decision from the beginning according to his own preferences and then moderating that a bit if public outcry is too great. I guess as long as your preferences have aligned with his you've been happy and felt his methods were genius but now that some of your preferences differ you are crying foul...
At any rate Madmole doesn't just make sole decisions on a whim. He brings things up in team meetings and they discuss and decide things as a team. For small balancing issues he will make sole decisions and yes, admittedly that creates some swings until he can get it dialed in to where he's happy but that is his development style and whether you agree with it or disagree with it he isn't going to change.

Honestly, I think most people around here think that it is a good thing that the developers do read what is posted here as they make their decisions. And it is not a shame at all about what happened between A16 and A17 for those who enjoy and see A17 as an improvement in many cases and the first steps towards potential improvement in others. I'm glad you and your group have found enjoyment with A16. Maybe A18 will be great again for you and yours.
Click to expand...
I think a lot of people tend to forget that computer games are an art form. How the art turns out is entirely up to the artist. I can just imagine Mozart releasing a test copy of a symphony online and dealing with all the comments from people who think this or that needs to be changed.

 
Fair point, more updates the better, obviously. However, from a testing/playing point-of-view; this might be a bit counterproductive (or even intuitive). Because of a massively borked system (RGW, in this case, everyone seems to agree here, it seems), I don't play the unstable version. Many people apparently don't. So will TFP gather enough feedback to improve upon it?
It's like being asked to Q&A your driving experience to the office every day, whilst being given zero traffic, good roads, 3 tires, a clutch, and 1 windscreen-wiper. Obviously one cannot Q&A this experience, besides the obvious complaints that one hasn't been given a coffee-cup holder.
Click to expand...
There are plenty of people who can look past the RWG problems and just test things out and provide feedback. The maps issues, as far as I know, don't have anything else to do with whatever other changes they put into the build to test.

I get that you and many others don't like the maps but there are plenty of people who are willing to provide feedback with things as they are.

If you can't get past the maps just play the stable. No one is forcing anyone to play the experimental and it seems to me TFP's are comfortable with the amount of feedback they get or otherwise they would heed your advice and not release test versions until everything is that bothers you and others is smoothed out.

 
I think a lot of people tend to forget that computer games are an art form. How the art turns out is entirely up to the artist. I can just imagine Mozart releasing a test copy of a symphony online and dealing with all the comments from people who think this or that needs to be changed.
Click to expand...
I've heard this argument before when Mass Effect 3 came out with their terrible ending. But it still stands that regardless of the developers' vision it still ended up with a greatly sub-par ending to a fantastic series (and in fact basically killed the series).

Games are different than art in that the user is interacting with it and spends MUCH more time (hundreds of hours) investing in it, where art is almost a sort of drive by appreciation thing that only takes a moment of your time. No harm no foul in with most art, you only lost a few minutes or at most a couple of hours (in the case of movies) if you end up not liking part of it.

To further complicate things, in the case of a16 you have something that was released and loved and then totally changed further down the line. (Yes yes, early access and all that) It's kind of like the original star wars trilogy edits George Lucas did, sure it was totally his right to do it and many people loved it, but something great was definitely lost there.

Don't get me wrong, it's still totally the developer's right to do pretty much whatever they want in this regard, I just think it's different than most art in that the players invest tons of time into it so it has much more of an impact on them than in most artistic situations.

 
<sigh>
Heheheh....We goofed folks. RWG is broke and we pushed it out to you anyway. I’m sure we’ll be back on track for A17.3. Let’s have a chuckle, now.

#justforyou.
Click to expand...
Fair enough, happens to all of us :-)

It's just a shame that we had such an amazing one (a16) and then had much of what made it special replaced in an update (a17).
Click to expand...
It might be possible to bring back 16.4 with a mod suite. The only problem there is that it seems that the dev team wants to shift into overdrive and rush the game to 1.0 (by the end of the year?). It'll make the game a somewhat fast moving target in that case. I'm not sure how much of the UI can be brought back and some of the systems might be completely gone (combining). I'm not sure how robust the mods can be.

 
Some people give video games as cursory a try as you give other forms of art and some people spend as much time appreciating and searching for meaning from other forms of art as you give to video games. You are making a mistake in saying that this art form is more involving than other art forms. All art touches people as shallowly or as deeply as they do and as their participants allow. If you flick your eyes momentarily at a Monet on your way to somewhere more important that is simply your level of appreciation. That is neither good nor bad but there are people who spend quite a lot more time than that on that same Monet.

 
I've heard this argument before when Mass Effect 3 came out with their terrible ending. But it still stands that regardless of the developers' vision it still ended up with a greatly sub-par ending to a fantastic series (and in fact basically killed the series).
Games are different than art in that the user is interacting with it and spends MUCH more time (hundreds of hours) investing in it, where art is almost a sort of drive by appreciation thing that only takes a moment of your time. No harm no foul in with most art, you only lost a few minutes or at most a couple of hours (in the case of movies) if you end up not liking part of it.

To further complicate things, in the case of a16 you have something that was released and loved and then totally changed further down the line. (Yes yes, early access and all that)

Don't get me wrong, it's still totally the developer's right to do pretty much whatever they want in this regard, I just think it's different than most art in that the players invest tons of time into it so it has much more of an impact on them than in most artistic situations.
Click to expand...

Some people give video games as cursory a try as you give other forms of art and some people spend as much time appreciating and searching for meaning from other forms of art as you give to video games. You are making a mistake in saying that this art form is more involving than other art forms. All art touches people as shallowly or as deeply as they do and as their participants allow. If you flick your eyes momentarily at a Monet on your way to somewhere more important that is simply your level of appreciation. That is neither good nor bad but there are people who spend quite a lot more time than that on that same Monet.
Click to expand...
-To be fair video games are a combination of various forms of art.

-There is objectivity in a form of art being good or bad. History proves it. And if you look deeply, it is based on logic and practical reasons.

It's kind of like the original star wars trilogy edits George Lucas did, sure it was totally his right to do it and many people loved it, but something great was definitely lost there.
Click to expand...
-And because I love my SP references

.
 
It might be possible to bring back 16.4 with a mod suite. The only problem there is that it seems that the dev team wants to shift into overdrive and rush the game to 1.0 (by the end of the year?). It'll make the game a somewhat fast moving target in that case. I'm not sure how much of the UI can be brought back and some of the systems might be completely gone (combining). I'm not sure how robust the mods can be.
Click to expand...
Overdrive? We are in the phase of development where the cement is drying.

A17 is the first alpha of 7D2D's history where practically all internal systems are in a somewhat final state and no placeholders anymore (a result also of their desire to finish the game). There will be no big changes anymore and bug fixing and polishing will take a bigger and bigger part of their development time.

For all of EA modders have been trying to paint grafiti on a moving train, beta is the train braking and 1.0 will mean the train has stopped.

 
--There is objectivity in a form of art being good or bad. History proves it. And if you look deeply, it is based on logic and practical reasons.
Click to expand...
A lot of art is not understood at the time of inception and only later gets recognized as a masterpiece. So whether you are right or not, in the short term art can be misjudged and objectivity is not reached.

 
Overdrive? We are in the phase of development where the cement is drying.
A17 is the first alpha of 7D2D's history where practically all internal systems are in a somewhat final state and no placeholders anymore (a result also of their desire to finish the game). There will be no big changes anymore and bug fixing and polishing will take a bigger and bigger part of their development time.

For all of EA modders have been trying to paint grafiti on a moving train, beta is the train braking and 1.0 will mean the train has stopped.
Click to expand...
"I don't like your description so I'm going to using a metaphor to say the same thing"

Cool story bro.

 
Sorry for hijacking this thread, but IMHO this describes in a nutshell the problem this game currently has.
If the CEO changes core elements of the game to something “what he felt was best” isn’t the way how product development should happen.

No wonder we have those 180 degrees turns (sometimes 360 degrees) and all those other “personal preferences”.

Sorry, if this sounds negative. But 7D2D has been (!) an awesome game. I always called it “bob the builder for adults with zombies”. I got hooked by Grand Spartan on YouTube and sunk many - probably too many - hours into it as it offered a mix of horror, shooter elements, free play style and creativity.

Now it’s a generic character development game. A lot of unique aspects have been nerfed and it has gotten pretty linear. Farm XP, drop points into X, rinse and repeat.

Base building has become a “let’s trick the (so called) AI” game.

I could probably go on for a while but I won’t as it doesn’t lead to anything.

And I know that 7D2D is Alpha™️ and experimental™️ but I have the impression that TFP have lost their “inner compass”. Which then leads to the above quoted post in this thread “what he felt was best”.
Click to expand...
Yes exactly, I don't know whos opinions matters so much, but game at the current state game isn't liked by most old players who actually supported the early project. If these opinions would matter TFP wouldn't be so stubborn with this direction.

For me optimal gameplay would be A16 + new additions of A17 ( A16 leveling system tweaked abit, old RWG much better than these new 8k island maps, long grind, etc ... ). If games continues going in this direction I don't think I will stick around much longer after 3000+ hours - had my fun but ARK is far what I like about survival and building game..

All A16 needed was some upgrades and additions to end game play. The balance in A16 was faaaaaaar superb to what we have now. A17 brought some sugars, but took away 75% of fun A16 had before this. All devs had to do was look at what mods are most popular around servers and players... that was the best reflection of what this game needed.

Now just being stubborn trying to satisfy ARK players ( if I wanted to play ARK I would reinstall it ) and going 180 U turn at the end of the game development??... you never make this kind of changes when the the project is like 80% done and well accepted by customers. The changes so far, for me at least, are just going from bad to worse.

Next build will bring in some mutated dinosaurs instead of zombies perhaps? YAY :crushed:

 
Last edited by a moderator:
It might be possible to bring back 16.4 with a mod suite. The only problem there is that it seems that the dev team wants to shift into overdrive and rush the game to 1.0 (by the end of the year?). It'll make the game a somewhat fast moving target in that case. I'm not sure how much of the UI can be brought back and some of the systems might be completely gone (combining). I'm not sure how robust the mods can be.
Click to expand...
I've already done a ton of modding with a17 to get it like a16, but I ultimately gave up for two main reasons that aren't moddable:

  • Limited RWG Map Size
    .
  • Zombie AI

Those are outright dealbreakers for us and can't be modded to match a16 in pretty much any way at the moment.

There's also a few other things that look difficult / impossible to bring back or change at the moment:

  • Gun Parts
    .
  • Skill Increase By Doing (a16 skill from usage structure)
    .
  • Removing the XP notification in a17


Other than that, pretty much everything can be modded back in. (Balance, schematics, perks, etc.)

But because of those unmoddable items I gave up and went back to a16 for now. Plus as you've said, based on the feedback on a17 so far I think there's a high chance of them dramatically changing a lot of these systems in the future so I'd rather wait until the dust settles before I spend that much time modding everything back.

Not to mention, like Roland said, we might end up loving the changes they make for a18 based on this feedback. So we'll wait and see for the moment.

 
"I don't like your description so I'm going to using a metaphor to say the same thing"
Cool story bro.
Click to expand...
Are you sure? I'm saying now is a better time for modders than any time before. I understood you saying that now is a bad time for modders because so much is changing now and interfaces are instable. Have I misunderstood you?

 
Plus, wouldn't TFP shifting into overdrive simply equal normal development speed...? ;)
Click to expand...
I dunno. That sounds like an attitude that won't release this year. Game still isn't feature complete and needs to iron out the grand majority of the bugs and you've still got a little more than 10.5 months left of 2019. If some serious pace quickening doesn't occur, it's just not happening. Let's not forget you guys have a track record of underestimating work load.

 
I've already done a ton of modding with a17 to get it like a16, but I ultimately gave up for two main reasons that aren't moddable:

  • Limited RWG Map Size
    .
  • Zombie AI

Those are outright dealbreakers for us and can't be modded to match a16 in pretty much any way at the moment.

There's also a few other things that look difficult / impossible to bring back or change at the moment:

  • Gun Parts
    .
  • Skill Increase By Doing (a16 skill from usage structure)
    .
  • Removing the XP notification in a17


Other than that, pretty much everything can be modded back in. (Balance, schematics, perks, etc.)

But because of those unmoddable items I gave up and went back to a16 for now. Plus as you've said, based on the feedback on a17 so far I think there's a high chance of them dramatically changing a lot of these systems in the future so I'd rather wait until the dust settles before I spend that much time modding everything back.

Not to mention, like Roland said, we might end up loving the changes they make for a18 based on this feedback. So we'll wait and see for the moment.
Click to expand...
I'll pass judgement on whatever ends up being the final iteration of RWG. I don't want A16 zombie ai to return, though I think the current ai is very nearly as bad. I'll wait to see what ends up happening going forward.

LBD has a mod in its early stages right now. It seems promising. The exp indicator isn't a problem. A16 had character levels too. Gun Parts are a loss, but it might be possible to work in something like them by giving mods quality and requiring a full set of mods to fire a gun.

It would be nice if a bug fixed patch of 16.4 was put out. Then they could trash their game all they want. But I doubt that'd happen.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
16k maps are the only viable ones, the rest are far too small once you get a vehicle and feel claustrophobic. Still far too much wasteland and repeated pois (that appear to self destruct the second you get on the roof!). Water needs some balance, either too much or close to none. Some poi need rethought (sneak in secret exit of wworks for example and get loot without the hassle of going right through is far too easy).

Caves, mines need massive expansion to compensate for nerfed mining. Only seem to be 3-4 spawn points on a map now too. deathwish is decent with some big poi, not perfect but worth a run through.
Click to expand...
Most of the dungeon style poi's you can bypass them if you know where the loot is. I feel nerd polling to get the loot easy is cheating though so I rarely do it. Its not really in the garrisons pawn and loan since all you need is a single wood frame or parkour 3 I think, to jump up to where you need to go.

 
Most of the dungeon style poi's you can bypass
Click to expand...
Not in RWG you can't, because those are the only POIs that you will encounter.

As I've said previously, there are good reasons for that, but it doesn't really matter if all you want to do is actually have a playable game. If that's what you're after, stick with A16.

 
Not in RWG you can't, because those are the only POIs that you will encounter.
Click to expand...
So not true. Random is random I guess so maybe you’ve been grossly unlucky but I think perhaps you don’t realize that many old POIs have been updated with a facelift but not turned into dungeons. I can see many people with that false assumption looking at a house from outside and judging as a dungeon POI and moving on when in fact it is not.

If you’re saying that 17.2 maps in particular are bad for only spawning dungeon POIs then load 17.1 and pregenerate a few maps. Then reinstall 17.2 and play with those maps. In the A17.1 RWG maps I played there were plenty of non-dungeon POIs. Too many for my taste...

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top