PC "Combat is feeling better than ever"?

you will find a low level gun quite easy (see Rolands post), but without weapon mods installed the gun will be really just wasting ammo because of low damage and accuracy.
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That's not true.

Guns kill zombies. Without mods and skills you just won't be Deadpool, killing 3 enemies during a backflip. =)

 
That's not true.Guns kill zombies. Without mods and skills you just won't be Deadpool, killing 3 enemies during a backflip. =)
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So with mods and skills we will be Deadpool, killing 3 enemies during a backflip?

 
That's not true.Guns kill zombies. Without mods and skills you just won't be Deadpool, killing 3 enemies during a backflip. =)
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But can we shoot them whilst going down a Zipline Roland, thats the question.

 
I'll reserve the right to comment about A17 once I've played it a few times :)
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This has to be the most emotionally mature response this forum has seen in a long time.

The rest of the bitchin' kiddies should take note... don't pan it until you've played it. In Pimps We Trust.

 
Mele fights against zombies should be way more centered on position and timing.

For example, that zombies have a relatively slow turn rate. But once they face the player, they make an attack leap forward, and try to hit/bite the player.

The reaction of the player should not be to backpaddle, but to side-strafe, turn to the zombie, and hit them during the attack.

Another (learnable) skill could be to "block" zombies, by using the weapon or hands to push them out of balance during their attack leap.

Or use the block-action to kick them out of balance when positioned behind them.

A zombie that is not currently attacking can turn faster (counteracting the side-strafe), so the player must preferably wait for them to make a move.

Stunned zombies should also still have some animated movement (flapping jaws or such) to make them visibly different from a dead one.

 
Totally disagree with you.The harder the better.

While zombies should give you at least SOME loot (especially non farmable like brass) they shouldnt be a ressource. They are the main threat of the game.

They should be bulletsponges, fast enough to always be a threat, and be avoided unless you are already pretty advanced and want to level.
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I'd rather zombies that either hit hard but die easly with headshots, or have low health, but come in large packs at once. Taking them out at a distance is easy, but if they catch you offguard, your in for a world of hurt.

I tried the ravenherst mod, and gave up on it, even the weakest zombie was taking 7-10 headshots with a starter club on nomad diffculty to kill. Its a bit better if you choose one of the ones that starts with a 300 qual weapon like the knife user, that ql 300 kukri 3 shoted those same zombies, 2 headshots to knock down, one to ground to finish it, for standart non-fatty/specials.

I will admit I am tired of game devs thinking more health=more diffculty, it doesn't add diffculty, it just draws it out. Take base 7dtd, going from nomad to warrior diffculty, the player hits a bit weaker on warrior, but the zombies hit 50% harder. But you still kill them almost as fast as on nomad diffculty, at most it takes 1 extra hit. The next one ups their dmg more, but makes you hit for noticably less making the fight overly drawn out in a game where the combat currently in A16 is rather boring.

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Yeh Joel is showing as many features and things in the time frame allotted... Y'all really wanna see him play slow and smart?
...his vids aren't likely how he plays, when he's playing.
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I was looking more at the game features/UI than how combat was myself. The combat DOES look better in the sense that now its more involved and not simply left click walk forward hit, walk back repeat till death. There is now more timing and such involved at least for melee combat. Ranged will be the same most likely.

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Melee is riskier. You will get hit at times especially at first.
In and Out: Backpedaling can only be done at walking speed. Until you are used to it you will take hits.

Headshot: You have to be perfectly accurate. If the crosshairs isn't on the head at the moment of impact (not when you click the mouse button) you'll miss. This makes the power moves tougher because the time between clicking the mouse and the actual impact is longer so you have to keep that head right in the middle until the moment of impact so you don't miss.

Jousting: Zombies can hit as they move instead of hit or move as they have in the past. Jousting will get you clocked sometimes as you run past.

That being said people that I watch often get much closer than they need to when they melee the zombies. You can hit them from further away than you often think. All melee tactics are going to require an adaptation curve.
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Even im A16 you can hit the zombies from a pretty far distance away with a melee weapon, some of them have as far as a 2.6 block range. It feels especally far if your using a FoV of like 70 or so. As for the timing, if you've played the elder scrolls games, or the old kings field jrpg series, the timing should come to you easly enough.

In A16 I usually swing before I get in range to hit, and by the time I am in range it connects, works with most weapons other than the machete as that thing swings quite fast. This way I can dodge backwards before the zombie can even react if needed. I would like a sprint+spacebar+direction jump dodge thou in A17, especally if backpedal sprint is removed, I can see all the deaths to wolves/dogs/bears now, as even the backpedal sprint barely kept you out of their range. Mind you they tend to get alot more kills than zombies do early game. Then again half the time people survive them in A16 is because the ai starts running in circles :p .

 
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Have anyone discovered "Lancing" the zombies in melee combat yet, I'm actually surprised. What's lancing... it's an old old term where youe character in a video game takes advantage of clipping into or sideways into an enemy PC and hits tem in melee and run past them to get out of reach. Been doing it forever in 7dtd and hardly ever got hit... I never backpedal.
No reason to kill zombies.... well XP gains, it's the second fastest way to level - mining being the OP way to level. :)

I say if TFP added a Sanity mechanic that you will gain sanity killing Zeds as well, lose sanity killing players or getting mortally wounded etc etc ...
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I have been doing that a lot as well, especially when i get surrounded and try to get everyone on one side to me or in a closed in spot and plan to just do that when A17 rolls out, at least until they disable running while attacking.

Ps. The technically correct term for your tactic is Jousting.
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I noticed that as well. I thought he was talking about lancing as in blood-letting or healing zombies until i got a sentence more into his post.

 
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All zombie games combat feel's suck compared to Dead Island

I can't believe how good they did with the combat in this game, felt so good killing all these damn zombies. And wow it's been 7 years since it got released already.

I wish 7dtd got to this level... killing zombies is so tedious and they feel like they are too solid/stiff, something is wrong.

 
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All zombie games combat feel's suck compared to Dead Island

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Dead Island is great, it has the best zombie apocalypse atmosphere. And the zombies look awesome. Melee combat is great too, but there was not enough gun play for my taste. Still, I absolutely loved it.
 
Dead Island is great, it has the best zombie apocalypse atmosphere. And the zombies look awesome. Melee combat is great too, but there was not enough gun play for my taste. Still, I absolutely loved it.
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Really? I might check that one out then - because 7 Days to Die has far too much gun play for my taste.

 
Really? I might check that one out then - because 7 Days to Die has far too much gun play for my taste.
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I think it's worth it. You can curb stomp the zombies, throw knives at them, powerslam them, etc. Very engaging combat.

 
Really? I might check that one out then - because 7 Days to Die has far too much gun play for my taste.
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There are guns, but I think the problem is that they and ammo are very expensive. And rare, possibly. The game is worth playing in any case, if you're a fan of the zombie apocalypse. The atmosphere is just brilliant.
In 7dtd, just fyi, you can also play without using guns or any ranged weapons.

 
Some of you understood my point, but it seems like a lot of you did not.

We, the experienced players, can hold our own on the hardest difficulties without issue. I have no doubt I will do just fine with A17, and will probably enjoy it. However, imagine being a new player, dropped into the game. First impressions are going to be filled with rage due to horrid inconsistency, and an extremely unforgiving combat system. The point I was trying to make is that on DEFAULT difficulty, this game should not be this unbalanced in terms of combat. You want your super hardcore mode where zombies are always running and take 5 headshots? Fine, crank up the difficulty like I do. BUT, it should not be THAT hard to take out a couple of zombies on DAY 1 on DEFAULT. And before you use the "IT'S AN ALPHA" card,... yeah, I know it's an alpha, which is why I am giving feedback. It's an Alpha, so this is the time where issues like this are ironed out. Please, try to understand what I am saying.

 
Some of you understood my point, but it seems like a lot of you did not.
We, the experienced players, can hold our own on the hardest difficulties without issue. I have no doubt I will do just fine with A17, and will probably enjoy it. However, imagine being a new player, dropped into the game. First impressions are going to be filled with rage due to horrid inconsistency, and an extremely unforgiving combat system. The point I was trying to make is that on DEFAULT difficulty, this game should not be this unbalanced in terms of combat. You want your super hardcore mode where zombies are always running and take 5 headshots? Fine, crank up the difficulty like I do. BUT, it should not be THAT hard to take out a couple of zombies on DAY 1 on DEFAULT. And before you use the "IT'S AN ALPHA" card,... yeah, I know it's an alpha, which is why I am giving feedback. It's an Alpha, so this is the time where issues like this are ironed out. Please, try to understand what I am saying.
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I don't think you're correct here.

New players will discover that zombies are difficult to fight, and they'll correctly think "zombies in this game are dangerous, I need to avoid them rather than fight them - at least until my character gets higher level".

You seem to be projecting your own attitude - that you should be killing zombies from day one for their loot and xp - onto new players. That attitude is a hold-over from previous editions, and new players will be coming the game without it.

 
I don't think you're correct here.
New players will discover that zombies are difficult to fight, and they'll correctly think "zombies in this game are dangerous, I need to avoid them rather than fight them - at least until my character gets higher level".

You seem to be projecting your own attitude - that you should be killing zombies from day one for their loot and xp - onto new players. That attitude is a hold-over from previous editions, and new players will be coming the game without it.
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The problem with your assessment is that, going from previous Alphas, the vast majority of people that will play A17 will be current players so yes, we do 'hold over' our expectations.

 
The problem with your assessment is that, going from previous Alphas, the vast majority of people that will play A17 will be current players so yes, we do 'hold over' our expectations.
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Nice cup of tea is talking about the impressions new players get. That has nothing to do with what current players think, irrespective of their number.

 
The problem with your assessment is that, going from previous Alphas, the vast majority of people that will play A17 will be current players so yes, we do 'hold over' our expectations.
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And there's nothing wrong with that (well, assuming you are aware that those expectations aren't a good fit for A17).

However, I was addressing AirJacob's claim that new players would come into the game with those same expectations and would therefore ragequit the game because it doesn't fit them. I was saying that new players wouldn't have come into the game with experience of previous alphas and therefore wouldn't have those expectations. They'd be coming in tabula rasa and to them, the idea of it not being easy to fight zombies at the start of the game would simply be "the way things work" rather than "they've changed it and now it sucks".

 
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