PC Question on gamestages and hordes

Our day 21 horde is tomorrow, so will send info for that horde. Is there any way to record the number of zombies that spawned during it?

 
Any complaint without stating the GS and how many players there were is just wasted space.
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Just me, level 13 and I had a mass of zeds, 2 puking cops and at least 2 vultures, all in the first horde on day 7, no mods, on default nomad, and I could care less about gamestage tbh, and wouldnt know where to look for it, im just playing the damn game... or rather trying to...

 
That's a combined GS of 99.
Personally I kept arguing for not ramping up the enemies so fast but in testing everyone kept asking for more and bigger. ;)
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Yeah i'm all for harder difficulty, but there are several issues that combine togethor.

1. Log Spikes are gone which were the durable damage dealer for bases.

2. Without log spikes we have flimsy wood spikes that don't even effect irradiated zombies as they heal more then they can get damaged by them

3. With the new changes of locking stuff behind levels we physically can't make forges till level 20, we can't make any real meds till level 30, we can't make ammo ,we can't make guns

4. So we are fighting irradiated zombies with quality 2 bows and arrow wearing padded armor and perhaps a few pieces of armor we got lucky and found.

5. New AI means zombies focus on 1 spot

6. New zombie changes means they get bonuses when next to each other which stacks with #5

So all that combined with the massive change in when they spawn is OP

 
That's a combined GS of 99.
Personally I kept arguing for not ramping up the enemies so fast but in testing everyone kept asking for more and bigger. ;)
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Makes one wonder how testing was made?

Dm or actual progression?

 
Gamestages - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1572330402

Radiated Cops starting to spawn - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1572330437

Pictures of horde - https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/941711796106351379/BEB146C4A11C5209A00D8B77B7D1D554405F3138/

So from our gamestages 3 out of 4 of us couldnt even make metal tools/weapons yet we had feral wights, radioactive cops, multiple cops, etc all spawning. Without any metal spikes nothing we could do would actually kill them. We can't even craft any medicine yet to help with fighting them.

Keep in mind in A16 we wouldn't see any ferals to gamestage 181 and we got about 6 of them alive at once, plus multiple radiated including at least 1 cop.

 
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That's a combined GS of 99.
Personally I kept arguing for not ramping up the enemies so fast but in testing everyone kept asking for more and bigger. ;)
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Any game I ever dev'd, the testers were hardcore experts who knew the game better than anybody else and knew and exploited every possible trick. They were not the sort of people to consult for tuning the game to normal users.

 
Any game I ever dev'd, the testers were hardcore experts who knew the game better than anybody else and knew and exploited every possible trick. They were not the sort of people to consult for tuning the game to normal users.
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I believe the testers know they are hardcore experts and give balance recommendations with that in mind as they give their recommendation.

I love it harder.... heheheheeh

 
I believe the testers know they are hardcore experts and give balance recommendations with that in mind as they give their recommendation.
I love it harder.... heheheheeh
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Yes, that's my point. You would use that sort of input for tuning a hard mode. It would be a bell curve. Your default difficulty would very likely be a cakewalk for testers, because they were literally paid to play the game every day for hours for months. They have skills more casual players would NEVER develop, and if they were expected to, they would just not play.

Go look at the global achievements for some real eye openers. Compare how many people have killed 100 zombies to how many people have killed 500 or more. It's a pretty drastic falloff. Check out how many people ever reached 200 wellness, or lived 1250 minutes in a single game. We're talking a small percentage of players.

 
I did the testing thing for a few months.

...if you think they're able to actually play the game, you are mistaken.

Get new build, run through checklist, get assignments, test, report results. Do it again the next day.

And the next. And the next.

 
Yes, that's my point. You would use that sort of input for tuning a hard mode. It would be a bell curve. Your default difficulty would very likely be a cakewalk for testers, because they were literally paid to play the game every day for hours for months. They have skills more casual players would NEVER develop, and if they were expected to, they would just not play.
Go look at the global achievements for some real eye openers. Compare how many people have killed 100 zombies to how many people have killed 500 or more. It's a pretty drastic falloff. Check out how many people ever reached 200 wellness, or lived 1250 minutes in a single game. We're talking a small percentage of players.
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This game has its own tune. It has never intended to be easy nor "balanced to ease the way of new players". With the current pace, which I, (day 15, level 49 with no base, 768 zds killed, 6 clear quests completed) find perfect, a player can only dream of surviving a horde without some friends and lots of defenses. Then the dawn breaks and they are kind of easy to kill because not all of them run.

Would you want a Dark Souls with an easy peezy mode? Come on ,play creative or a lesser difficult, but let 7dtd be 7dtd. Wouldn't hurt to have npcs with safe places to rent though haha.

 
This game has its own tune. It has never intended to be easy nor "balanced to ease the way of new players". With the current pace, which I, (day 15, level 49 with no base, 768 zds killed, 6 clear quests completed) find perfect, a player can only dream of surviving a horde without some friends and lots of defenses. Then the dawn breaks and they are kind of easy to kill because not all of them run.
Would you want a Dark Souls with an easy peezy mode? Come on ,play creative or a lesser difficult, but let 7dtd be 7dtd. Wouldn't hurt to have npcs with safe places to rent though haha.
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That would be great if the difficulty settings actually worked.

 
This game has its own tune. It has never intended to be easy nor "balanced to ease the way of new players". With the current pace, which I, (day 15, level 49 with no base, 768 zds killed, 6 clear quests completed) find perfect, a player can only dream of surviving a horde without some friends and lots of defenses. Then the dawn breaks and they are kind of easy to kill because not all of them run.
Would you want a Dark Souls with an easy peezy mode? Come on ,play creative or a lesser difficult, but let 7dtd be 7dtd. Wouldn't hurt to have npcs with safe places to rent though haha.
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(shrug) If you say so, bro. If I want hard I play a Quake variant or somesuch where there is always someone who can throw me a sound beating if that's what I need. I am not much interested in 'hard' PVE, in that it's trivial to progam a game to kick my ass. That being said, seems to me the guys who want it hard die a lot.... :D

 
Yeah, the hordes grow FAST.

But i honestly see no problem with it, cause we have ALL the options in the world to cheese the game into oblivion if we really fail.

I used hundreds of spikes, around 400 rounds of ammo, a few walls and a handful of mines to DESTROY my first bloodmoon horde... for the next i will crank it up from 32 to 64 to not run out of zeds so fast.

 
Yeah, the hordes grow FAST.But i honestly see no problem with it, cause we have ALL the options in the world to cheese the game into oblivion if we really fail.

I used hundreds of spikes, around 400 rounds of ammo, a few walls and a handful of mines to DESTROY my first bloodmoon horde... for the next i will crank it up from 32 to 64 to not run out of zeds so fast.
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The first horde is the EASY one, around the 2nd horde is where the gamestage changes kick in and it goes from mostly normal zombies to mostly ferals and irradiated ones.

Anyways I think the simplest solution would be to make the gamestages more like A16, and then make the difficulty mode have a VASTLY higher increase in GS. So playing an easier difficulty makes your gamestage change far slower, playing a higher difficulty makes it ramp up far faster.

So instead of

scavengerGameDifficultyBonus="1.0"

adventurerGameDifficultyBonus="1.2"

nomadGameDifficultyBonus="1.5"

warriorGameDifficultyBonus="1.7"

survivalistGameDifficultyBonus="2.0"

insaneGameDifficultyBonus="2.5"

Something like

scavengerGameDifficultyBonus="1"

adventurerGameDifficultyBonus="2"

nomadGameDifficultyBonus="4"

warriorGameDifficultyBonus="6"

survivalistGameDifficultyBonus="8"

insaneGameDifficultyBonus="10"

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, the hordes grow FAST.But i honestly see no problem with it, cause we have ALL the options in the world to cheese the game into oblivion if we really fail.

I used hundreds of spikes, around 400 rounds of ammo, a few walls and a handful of mines to DESTROY my first bloodmoon horde... for the next i will crank it up from 32 to 64 to not run out of zeds so fast.
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That is the biggest problem though, if your only option is to cheese the zombies to survive then their is something fundamentally wrong. Aside from the intense spawning the difficulty feels spot on as does everything else

 
I'm absolutely for the game being difficult, and it already is much harder in a lot of ways that seem challenging but not ridiculous. However, when you're getting stuff on the first horde that absolutely obliterates you and 2 days prep in minutes with what feels like zero chance, I think something isn't quite right. I want the difficult to ramp up as I get stronger, however right now it feels like it starts at day 7 with a 9.5/10 and goes from there. We simply don't have the tools or the levels to unlock skills until much later on that can allow us to deal with multiple ferals and cops on what's supposed to be normal difficulty. We're not even bringing a knife to a gunfight, we're walking barefisted into a nuclear bomb, on the first night, it's going to get worse from there.

I think there's a happy medium between A16 and A17 where maybe instead of going from spawning at gamestage 540 to 59, irradiated ferals could show up somewhere in between those two.

Again, I don't mind it being difficult, but right now (with 4 low level players in a normal difficulty game), it didn't feel like we even had a chance. I want to see a bit of a ramp instead of an outright wall.

 
I'm absolutely for the game being difficult, and it already is much harder in a lot of ways that seem challenging but not ridiculous. However, when you're getting stuff on the first horde that absolutely obliterates you and 2 days prep in minutes with what feels like zero chance, I think something isn't quite right. I want the difficult to ramp up as I get stronger, however right now it feels like it starts at day 7 with a 9.5/10 and goes from there. We simply don't have the tools or the levels to unlock skills until much later on that can allow us to deal with multiple ferals and cops on what's supposed to be normal difficulty. We're not even bringing a knife to a gunfight, we're walking barefisted into a nuclear bomb, on the first night, it's going to get worse from there.
I think there's a happy medium between A16 and A17 where maybe instead of going from spawning at gamestage 540 to 59, irradiated ferals could show up somewhere in between those two.

Again, I don't mind it being difficult, but right now (with 4 low level players in a normal difficulty game), it didn't feel like we even had a chance. I want to see a bit of a ramp instead of an outright wall.
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It does feel like in the starting stages the difficulty got a lot steeper. Personally, I loved it, 'cos it was a real challenge. But I can see how it would put a casual off. They'd maybe invest just enough time to reach Day 7, and then get absolutely smashed. We're starting a private server next week, and I know some of the lads I play with are in for a shock :D

 
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