PC Question about horde night spawns

The dev stream really wasn't specific on how it would work.  Just that they'd trickle in (they might not even have said that), allowing horde nights to last until 4am.  And the change can improve that (I'd never had day 7 horde night last until 4am before but it does now).  However, it doesn't guarantee they last until 4am because there is still a cap on the number of spawns.  I've regularly finished before 4am on week 2 and 3 in 1.0 in 2-player games.  I haven't tried 1.1 yet.  I'm not sure why they didn't just increase the cap far enough to guarantee it lasts until 4am.

 
theFlu said:
We're not skipping it, you're not telling how many zeds you kill in those nights. You CAN have it end early if you kill enough. You haven't told us whether you kill 2 or 2000 before it stops. 2 would be a bug, and 2000 would be a bug, the proper max amount is something in between.

If you're thinking that Joel has said something specific and you're not seeing that.. well, even Joel can have been wrong. And we don't know what he's said, timestamps please.
Click to expand...




Let me add some info. I'm currently on second playthrough day 49 (didn't take on the horde yet), so hordes 7 through 42 were as follow:

day 7 - 474 zombies
day 14 - 460 zombies
day 21 - 579 zombies
day 28 - 690 zombies (gamestage 172)
day 35 - 808 zombies (gamestage 198)
day 42 - 1139 zombies (gamestage 291)

Managed to exhaust all hordes before 2 am and I can kill fast enough (my horde defense is an electrified pit, so explosives only). In my first playthrough (77 days) from day 56 through 77 hordes I killed ~ 1.5k zombies, so I suspect that would be the maximum or close to it.

 
so found my own true answer to this went back into my 1.0 world after reverting back to 1.0 with the max zombie horde set to 32 and the day length set to 120 minutes

i killed 1500 zombies at game stage 571 on day 14 horde finished at 3:06 am

then went back to 1.1 and did another horde night on day 14 and killed another 1500 zombies same settings as version 1.0 the horde also finished at 3:06 am

it would seem that you would not finish horde night by 4 am with the day length set to the default 60 minutes

just did another pine forest day 21 horde again finished by 1:04 am with horde zombies set to 16 zombies gamestage 123 and 511 zombies killed

just a fyi i mostly always play on 120 minute days and yes the hordes were lasting all through until 4 am until i updated to 1.1.

i had forgotten i had reset my day length to 60 minutes in the version 1.0 playthrough after i think day 35 because i just was trying to complete the 10 hordes quest

Screenshot 2024-09-26 192604.png

Screenshot 2024-09-26 194426.png

 
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Whiteshark68 said:
i killed 1500 zombies at game stage 571 on day 14 horde finished at 3:06 am
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That's not normal.  They are not going to balance a game if a person gets to GS 571 by Day 14.

My experience has been that the initial blood moons lasted all night without any speeding up the GS or player progression.

 
Whiteshark68 said:
so found my own true answer to this went back into my 1.0 world after reverting back to 1.0 with the max zombie horde set to 32 and the day length set to 120 minutes

i killed 1500 zombies at game stage 571 on day 14 horde finished at 3:06 am

then went back to 1.1 and did another horde night on day 14 and killed another 1500 zombies same settings as version 1.0 the horde also finished at 3:06 am

it would seem that you would not finish horde night by 4 am with the day length set to the default 60 minutes

just did another pine forest day 21 horde again finished by 1:04 am with horde zombies set to 16 zombies gamestage 123 and 511 zombies killed

just a fyi i mostly always play on 120 minute days and yes the hordes were lasting all through until 4 am until i updated to 1.1.

i had forgotten i had reset my day length to 60 minutes in the version 1.0 playthrough after i think day 35 because i just was trying to complete the 10 hordes quest

View attachment 32383

View attachment 32384
Click to expand...


Your numbers are way off. You can't reach GS571 by day 14 and by setting low numbers like 16 and 32 max alive it's pretty obviously you are going to need more time to exhaust hordes. Not mention, I'm playing 1.0 as I mentioned before and no hordes lasted all night. The main "problem": you are not killing zombies fast enough to exhaust hordes in 60 minutes days and is nerfing max zombies alive. If you can kill fast enough, 64 max zombies alive and 60 minutes day you will exhaust hordes at the very least day 7 through 49. Example, you said GS 123 and 16 max zombies alive, according xml files:

<gamestage stage="121">
            <spawn group="feralHordeStageGS109" num="171" maxAlive="39" duration="2" interval="15"/>
            <spawn group="feralHordeStageGS115" num="171" maxAlive="39" duration="2" interval="14"/>
            <spawn group="feralHordeStageGS121" num="171" maxAlive="39" duration="7"/>

You are definitely nerfing zombies alive, therefore you "thought" horde night was lasting all night. Again, there is no such thing as "hordes lasting all night". TFP did make some changes introducing what I call "persistent wave" (those few zombies spawning after normal 3 big waves), but killing fast enough it will exhaust as well.

 
Really guys did you NOT read the entire thread and just cherry pick so your statements are correct.

I have already said i had completed the day 70 horde in that world i went back in and used the console to set my day back to day 14 just to prove a point and you all jump in and all your numbers are messed up for you can't have a game stage of 571 by day 14 no you can't but you can by day 70 i really didn't feel like starting a new game just to prove my point

Again if i had the day set to 60 minutes long there is just not enough time to kill 1500 zombies in 6 in game hours so by definition the horde will last all night which is where i was on the final day 70 horde in my 1.0 world i had 32 zombies day length 60 minutes and yes my GS was 571 again at day 70 but all you guys have seen was "day 14" FFS did any of you actually read the whole thread.

The second one where i did the day 21 horde that is more closer to my actual gamestage as it was on day 25 at 3:47 am when i set my day back to day 21 and as i kept saying in version 1.0 hordes did last all night but haven't since the day 7 horde in 1.1.

i would like to know how i am "nerfing" zombies alive because if i am reading you correct nerfing zombies alive means to you having the max horde night alive set to the  default number of zombies for horde night which is 8 just in case you have never bothered to check.

my point still stands in version 1.0 with the horde night max alive zombies set to default the hordes were lasting all night and yes at some point even after setting the max horde to 32 the horde still lasted all night if everything else was set to the default settings.

before anyone says oh but ofc the horde will not last all night if you have the day set to 120 minutes but my day 7 horde in 1.1 was at 120 minute days

also every horde in my 1.0 world was set to 120 minute days until after the day 35 horde the i set it back to the default 60 minute days, and every horde from day 7 to day 70 lasted all night.

To quote BFT2020

"My experience has been that the initial blood moons lasted all night without any speeding up the GS or player progression."

This seems to be proving my point

 
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Whiteshark68 said:
Really guys did you NOT read the entire thread and just cherry pick so your statements are correct.

I have already said i had completed the day 70 horde in that world i went back in and used the console to set my day back to day 14 just to prove a point and you all jump in and all your numbers are messed up for you can't have a game stage of 571 by day 14 no you can't but you can by day 70 i really didn't feel like starting a new game just to prove my point

Again if i had the day set to 60 minutes long there is just not enough time to kill 1500 zombies in 6 in game hours so by definition the horde will last all night which is where i was on the final day 70 horde in my 1.0 world i had 32 zombies day length 60 minutes and yes my GS was 571 again at day 70 but all you guys have seen was "day 14" FFS did any of you actually read the whole thread.

The second one where i did the day 21 horde that is more closer to my actual gamestage as it was on day 25 at 3:47 am when i set my day back to day 21 and as i kept saying in version 1.0 hordes did last all night but haven't since the day 7 horde in 1.1.

i would like to know how i am "nerfing" zombies alive because if i am reading you correct nerfing zombies alive means to you having the max horde night alive set to the  default number of zombies for horde night which is 8 just in case you have never bothered to check.

my point still stands in version 1.0 with the horde night max alive zombies set to default the hordes were lasting all night and yes at some point even after setting the max horde to 32 the horde still lasted all night if everything else was set to the default settings.

before anyone says oh but ofc the horde will not last all night if you have the day set to 120 minutes but my day 7 horde in 1.1 was at 120 minute days

also every horde in my 1.0 world was set to 120 minute days until after the day 35 horde the i set it back to the default 60 minute days, and every horde from day 7 to day 70 lasted all night.

To quote BFT2020

"My experience has been that the initial blood moons lasted all night without any speeding up the GS or player progression."

This seems to be proving my point
Click to expand...


Nobody is cherry picking in here, you are the one believing "hordes last all night" and that's simply not true. It's pretty clear you're are not killing fast enough and you are nerfing waves. As I mentioned before at GS 123 you should get:

<gamestage stage="121">
            <spawn group="feralHordeStageGS109" num="171" maxAlive="39" duration="2" interval="15"/>
            <spawn group="feralHordeStageGS115" num="171" maxAlive="39" duration="2" interval="14"/>
            <spawn group="feralHordeStageGS121" num="171" maxAlive="39" duration="7"/>

By setting 8, 16 or 32 alive, it's obvious there will be more waves on each big ones. Max alive means the ammount of zombies per wave, so any number below 39 you are nerfing the full potential of said wave, therefore it's gonna take more time to spawn and kill. If hordes indeed last all night, doesn't matter settings on how many alive: game should adjust "num" (total zombies per big wave) to match "maxAlive settings" in order to last longer. According xml files it's gonna roll like I mentioned above and max zombies per horde night is ~ 1,5k which you can kill on 60 minutes day if your horde defense is designed for explosives only.

 
Again you are cherry picking because as soon as i called out your inability to read it was no longer mentioned "Your numbers are way off. You can't reach GS571 by day 14 and by setting low numbers like 16 and 32 max alive it's pretty obviously you are going to need more time to exhaust hordes" If you had read the entire thread you would have known that this was in a 75 day world.

The other point i would like to make is that you are making assumptions about things you have no idea about when did you fight a horde in my world? because unless you have you really cannot make any assumption about what has or not happened in any of my worlds.

also just to point out in "your" example you used of mine did you not see that i killed 511 zombies in the pine forest and ended the horde at 1am because i think that just might mean i was killing the zombies fast enough and there was the correct number of spawns

My point is and always has been has something changed between version 1.0 and exp 1.1 which you can not actually attest to as you by your own admission only play 1.0

because i prefer to kill with guns on horde night why is that an issue for you i don't say oh you kill with explosives in a pit so you must be cheesing the game because you kill to fast i say to each their own.

Different people play different play styles for a reason i have never had a issue with the hordes lasting all night mine was a simple question about has something changed in between versions.

It was not and never has been a question of how many zombies am i killing or how fast i am killing them.

I'll put an example here for you just so you can understand so you are facing the horde on day 7 everything goes exactly to plan but along comes day 14 and suddenly something is radically different you are now getting over run by zombies wouldn't you question what has changed if you had updated to the newest version between hordes?

It has always been if the same player is playing the same play style and same settings and somehow the horde behaves differently i wanted to know if something changed between the only thing that has changed i.e the version.

Can you not admit that is a valid question

 
Whiteshark68 said:
It has always been if the same player is playing the same play style and same settings and somehow the horde behaves differently i wanted to know if something changed between the only thing that has changed i.e the version.

Can you not admit that is a valid question
Click to expand...
It's a valid question, but you said you were playing 60 minute days in your 1.0 game. You found out yourself that the horde wouldn't be killed by morning with the shorter default nights.

Isn't the answer "The game didn't (need to) change, as your settings did"?

 
theFlu said:
It's a valid question, but you said you were playing 60 minute days in your 1.0 game. You found out yourself that the horde wouldn't be killed by morning with the shorter default nights.

Isn't the answer "The game didn't (need to) change, as your settings did"?
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Actually my first 5 hordes in my 1.0 game were at 120 minutes the final 5 were at 60 minutes but anyways not a issue since i think the question asked has been answered

and not surprisingly it has to do with raising the max alive from the default to 16 which means more zombies alive during each wave so more zombies killed per wave resulting in the horde ending in roughly half the time but as you go up in game stage the more zombies need to be killed

it's one thing i mostly do not change because i play 120 minute days it gets a little boring if the horde ends way before horde night

 
I'm sure they don't want to make horde nights into something you can kill 10k zombies and build XP so quickly by placing a ton of automated defenses and other traps down so they get killed really quickly and continue to come until morning.  If you don't set up your base to do a ton of killing for you, horde nights after the first few should normally last all night, or most of the night.  But the faster you kill, the faster they die, and the faster they run out.

Though I'm surprised that they didn't make it so that increasing max zombies doesn't increase the total zombies per wave as well.  For example, if 8 zombies is 100 per wave, 16 zombies would be 200 per wave.  Or even scaled down, where 16 zombies is 150 per wave.  Something to keep raising the max number at once from making the horde night end sooner.

 
Whiteshark68 said:
Again you are cherry picking because as soon as i called out your inability to read it was no longer mentioned "Your numbers are way off. You can't reach GS571 by day 14 and by setting low numbers like 16 and 32 max alive it's pretty obviously you are going to need more time to exhaust hordes" If you had read the entire thread you would have known that this was in a 75 day world.

The other point i would like to make is that you are making assumptions about things you have no idea about when did you fight a horde in my world? because unless you have you really cannot make any assumption about what has or not happened in any of my worlds.

also just to point out in "your" example you used of mine did you not see that i killed 511 zombies in the pine forest and ended the horde at 1am because i think that just might mean i was killing the zombies fast enough and there was the correct number of spawns

My point is and always has been has something changed between version 1.0 and exp 1.1 which you can not actually attest to as you by your own admission only play 1.0

because i prefer to kill with guns on horde night why is that an issue for you i don't say oh you kill with explosives in a pit so you must be cheesing the game because you kill to fast i say to each their own.

Different people play different play styles for a reason i have never had a issue with the hordes lasting all night mine was a simple question about has something changed in between versions.

It was not and never has been a question of how many zombies am i killing or how fast i am killing them.

I'll put an example here for you just so you can understand so you are facing the horde on day 7 everything goes exactly to plan but along comes day 14 and suddenly something is radically different you are now getting over run by zombies wouldn't you question what has changed if you had updated to the newest version between hordes?

It has always been if the same player is playing the same play style and same settings and somehow the horde behaves differently i wanted to know if something changed between the only thing that has changed i.e the version.

Can you not admit that is a valid question
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Am I cherry picking? Stop BS, man. Your question was "about spawn and horde night not lasting all night". Now you are adding a lot of stuff to change original question. So yeah, don't say is cherry picking because you are the one changing info all the time. What I said: "hordes don't last all night", that's it. When I say "nerfing" it wasn't in an offensive way, just to pointed out that hordes would last longer if you don't allow maxAlive on each wave. That's it. And horde nights can be exhausted on 60 minutes day. That's it. But, it seems you failed to understand that and start saying "we are all cherry picking". Did I say hordes not lasting all night wasn't a problem? Nope. Did I say you don't know how to play the game? Nope. Like I said before, everything I posted was to stress hordes don't last all night.

 
lord_ahriman said:
Am I cherry picking? Stop BS, man. Your question was "about spawn and horde night not lasting all night". Now you are adding a lot of stuff to change original question. So yeah, don't say is cherry picking because you are the one changing info all the time. What I said: "hordes don't last all night", that's it. When I say "nerfing" it wasn't in an offensive way, just to pointed out that hordes would last longer if you don't allow maxAlive on each wave. That's it. And horde nights can be exhausted on 60 minutes day. That's it. But, it seems you failed to understand that and start saying "we are all cherry picking". Did I say hordes not lasting all night wasn't a problem? Nope. Did I say you don't know how to play the game? Nope. Like I said before, everything I posted was to stress hordes don't last all night.
Click to expand...
Again my question was and still is did something about the horde night change from version 1.0 to exp 1.1 ( just made it real obvious so even you can read it) which again you can not attest to. i never play 60 minute days except in the case of the last 5 hordes i had just forgot i had done that because it was 20 days ago and 50+ game hours back so sue me if i forgot that one detail, i was at one point going to set the day length to 10 minutes pretty sure the hordes even at max alive would still be going at 4 am no matter how fast you kill them which would prove that horde nights can in fact last all night wouldn't it??.

Unless you play on default settings there is no way you can possibly tell me that hordes don't last all night because at default and up to 32 max alive over 60 minute days at higher game stages yes they do and again at default they will last all night at 120 minute days but only if it is set to the default 8 max alive per wave in exp 1.1 with the weapons you would have or find by said time period But for some reason you just can't see that and you want to argue that hordes will never last all night because you in your base can kill them "fast" enough yes that is your experience but you can not take your experience and apply it to everybody else's game experience because as i said every one plays with a different style and with different horde bases which will result in hordes lasting different times. You just can not seem to process that one fact because it doesn't occur that way for you.

 
The clarification I got from a mod, is that there is a max amount of zombies that will spawn during the trickle phase.  And once those are dead, hoard night is done.

 
Whiteshark68 said:
Again my question was and still is did something about the horde night change from version 1.0 to exp 1.1
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ok, so my earlier post was from 1.0. Because your original original question did not specify any version.

Whiteshark68 said:
So as my title says i have a question about horde night spawns that someone with more knowledge about how spawns work can answer

so here is my "problem" i started a new world with the horde spawn count remaining at 7 and day 7 horde night went as expected with the horde lasting until dawn

then i upped my horde spawn count to 16 and then day 14 the horde didn't go as expected with the horde night finishing at roughly 1 a.m thought that was a little bizarre.

The day 21 horde night went roughly the same with it finishing at 18 minutes past midnight. Should this have happened or does the horde spawn count dictate when the horde will finish? or is this a bug?

i will test at day 28 but since it is day 22 in game might be awhile, also i am now in a different biome to hordes 1 - 3.
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Notice how there is ZERO mention of a game version there?  That would lead basically everyone reading it to think you are discussing the current Stable branch. You didn't post about comparing about 1.1 until much later after I had provided the code for 1.0. Which is largely what people have been focusing on, because it is a defined ruleset.

So now, since you have decided to clarify what you really meant in your OP, lets dig into this further.

Version 1.0

<gamestage stage="19">
<spawn group="feralHordeStageGS16" num="27" maxAlive="8" duration="1" interval="10"/>
<spawn group="feralHordeStageGS19" num="27" maxAlive="8" duration="1"/>
<spawn group="feralHordeStageGS19" num="200" maxAlive="5"/>
</gamestage>


Now for this, your first stage is 27 zeds. The second stage is a total of 27 zeds. The final trickle stage is 200 zeds. However if you kill all 200 spawns before the night is over, then it is done. You won't get any more zeds past that.

Version 1.1

<gamestage stage="19">
<spawn group="feralHordeStageGS16" num="27" maxAlive="8" duration="1" interval="10"/>
<spawn group="feralHordeStageGS19" num="27" maxAlive="8" duration="1"/>
<spawn group="feralHordeStageGS19" num="200" maxAlive="5"/>
</gamestage>


NO CHANGE

Version 1.0

At GS23 you get an extra spawn group added.

<gamestage stage="23">
<spawn group="feralHordeStageGS16" num="33" maxAlive="9" duration="1" interval="20"/>
<spawn group="feralHordeStageGS19" num="33" maxAlive="9" duration="1" interval="19"/>
<spawn group="feralHordeStageGS23" num="33" maxAlive="9" duration="1"/>
<spawn group="feralHordeStageGS23" num="200" maxAlive="6"/>
</gamestage>




Version 1.1

<gamestage stage="23">
<spawn group="feralHordeStageGS16" num="33" maxAlive="9" duration="1" interval="20"/>
<spawn group="feralHordeStageGS19" num="33" maxAlive="9" duration="1" interval="19"/>
<spawn group="feralHordeStageGS23" num="33" maxAlive="9" duration="1"/>
<spawn group="feralHordeStageGS23" num="200" maxAlive="6"/>
</gamestage>


NO CHANGE

That final spawn group is set to 200 up to GS103.

Version 1.0

<gamestage stage="103">
<spawn group="feralHordeStageGS91" num="145" maxAlive="33" duration="2" interval="28"/>
<spawn group="feralHordeStageGS97" num="145" maxAlive="33" duration="2" interval="17"/>
<spawn group="feralHordeStageGS103" num="145" maxAlive="33" duration="7"/>
<spawn group="feralHordeStageGS103" num="200" maxAlive="22"/>
</gamestage>




Version 1.1

<gamestage stage="103">
<spawn group="feralHordeStageGS91" num="145" maxAlive="33" duration="2" interval="28"/>
<spawn group="feralHordeStageGS97" num="145" maxAlive="33" duration="2" interval="17"/>
<spawn group="feralHordeStageGS103" num="145" maxAlive="33" duration="7"/>
<spawn group="feralHordeStageGS103" num="200" maxAlive="22"/>
</gamestage>


NO CHANGE

Afterwards, it contains just the first three groupings.

Version 1.0

<gamestage stage="109">
<spawn group="feralHordeStageGS97" num="154" maxAlive="35" duration="2" interval="25"/>
<spawn group="feralHordeStageGS103" num="154" maxAlive="35" duration="2" interval="10"/>
<spawn group="feralHordeStageGS109" num="154" maxAlive="35" duration="7"/>
</gamestage>




Version 1.1

<gamestage stage="109">
<spawn group="feralHordeStageGS97" num="154" maxAlive="35" duration="2" interval="25"/>
<spawn group="feralHordeStageGS103" num="154" maxAlive="35" duration="2" interval="10"/>
<spawn group="feralHordeStageGS109" num="154" maxAlive="35" duration="7"/>
</gamestage>


NO CHANGE

Once you hit GS381 the number for each group is 500, and it keeps increasing the max alive per wave.

 Version 1.0

<gamestage stage="381">
<spawn group="feralHordeStageGS363" num="500" maxAlive="117" duration="2" interval="12"/>
<spawn group="feralHordeStageGS372" num="500" maxAlive="117" duration="2" interval="28"/>
<spawn group="feralHordeStageGS381" num="500" maxAlive="117" duration="7"/>
</gamestage>




Version 1.1

<gamestage stage="381">
<spawn group="feralHordeStageGS363" num="500" maxAlive="117" duration="2" interval="12"/>
<spawn group="feralHordeStageGS372" num="500" maxAlive="117" duration="2" interval="28"/>
<spawn group="feralHordeStageGS381" num="500" maxAlive="117" duration="7"/>
</gamestage>


NO CHANGE

So to really and truly answer what you actually really meant in your OP....

There were no changes from v1.0 to V1.1​
 
I apologize for not seeing that i hadn't included a version in my original post thought i had as i always play in the latest version be it stable or experimental

and if you had read it all you would have noticed i did include the version numbers in my 4th post so if anyone who supposedly read the whole thread would have seen that.

but it really is irrelevant now as i had figured out the "issue" several weeks ago myself.

 
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