PC Progressive Loot OR Weapon Proficiency ?

I've been playing since alpha 15. At that time i used to think, this game is like done. Just finish it already and release it.

Nearly 500 hours later i realize i was so wrong. I hope they never finish this game. It's only gotten so much better with every new alpha. I only play sp and pd.

The progressive loot is a better route imo. Before, i would never get to use a blunderbuss because I'd find 17 pistols in toilets day 1. The bow was nearly useless after a few days. I'd have iron picks by like day 3. Then it gets boring really quick.

I like the new system much better. Only thing i think needs tweaking is the amount of food you find. To me, that's the best part of the game, struggling to find food or medicine while barely surviving. When playing permadeath, the food becomes too easy to find. After a few weeks i have stacks or meat. I know it's a very thin line.

I like contemplating on whether i should take iron gut or risk it. Should i risk eating this moldy sandwich?! I don't want the rest of the loot messed with, just the food. So turning down loot percentage isnt the answer. Modifying game files or modding could be but i dont get into all that.

 
I've been playing since alpha 15. At that time i used to think, this game is like done. Just finish it already and release it.

Nearly 500 hours later i realize i was so wrong. I hope they never finish this game. It's only gotten so much better with every new alpha. I only play sp and pd.

The progressive loot is a better route imo. Before, i would never get to use a blunderbuss because I'd find 17 pistols in toilets day 1. The bow was nearly useless after a few days. I'd have iron picks by like day 3. Then it gets boring really quick.

I like the new system much better. Only thing i think needs tweaking is the amount of food you find. To me, that's the best part of the game, struggling to find food or medicine while barely surviving. When playing permadeath, the food becomes too easy to find. After a few weeks i have stacks or meat. I know it's a very thin line.

I like contemplating on whether i should take iron gut or risk it. Should i risk eating this moldy sandwich?! I don't want the rest of the loot messed with, just the food. So turning down loot percentage isnt the answer. Modifying game files or modding could be but i dont get into all that.
I'm glad you enjoy it,

I think bows would be more interesting to use if sound actually mattered in this game.  Sure you wake up some zombies, but using a gun should draw more, or spawn in a few more behind buildings, or in the buildings (out of player sight) so that the gun has a punishment for using.  Noise draws zombies.  or traditionally they do.  Here firing your gun, making a huge ruckus running around and banging things has little to no impact.  This would have you try to conserve your bullets or have to make a lot more since guns will always draw a crowd.

Forcing people to play slower doesn't add enjoyment for many.

I do agree the food after a short time isn't an issue, I like what they did do with this alpha regarding better foods give better food value, but at the same time I see why people are complaining too, a can of any food should fill us up, and eating 3 helpings of bacon and eggs to fill yourself up or 10 steaks to get your health to full is a bit much to accept.

Even infections become a non threat because you can make your own antibiotics.  Some of these crafting items make the game far to easy.  I don't want "Gating" but maybe these types of items require far longer to create (literally a couple in day games) - I haven't researchec how long it takes in real life to make an antibiotic from scratch so perhaps the pimps got it right, but if not, then that's something that could be done.  Making some of the craftable items too gamey make the game to easy. 

I've been infected on the first day a couple times, and then my sole focus was on finding items to get rid of it... stumps for honey, or hospitals, or zooming into house bathrooms and back out again.   That panic makes the game fun.  fast forward 6 days I have 6-12 antibiotics and a dozen jars of honey.  infections are just an inconvenience at that point.  I know some people just eat glass or whatever, I guess that's their choice but it is fun to struggle to find certain items.

 
I've been infected on the first day a couple times, and then my sole focus was on finding items to get rid of it... stumps for honey, or hospitals, or zooming into house bathrooms and back out again.   That panic makes the game fun.
That actually happened to me in my last play through.... infected on day 1 and got to 33% infected before I finally found some antibiotics late in day 3.   I play dead is dead and have never died from an infection before.  I thought this was going to be the first time and it was kinda stressful, which was fun.

 
As I said, my spontanous answer isn't optimal, but it's not like there is no way to tackle your problem. It's actually very easy to fix.

I do and I explained it. But somehow you didn't even answer on why you think otherwise, instead you created a problem that is easily fixable.
Before you feel challenged for a lengthy discussion: I don't want to convince anyone, there is no point, since the design decisions are made by TFP anyways. I just answered to your previous post, because your problem is that easily fixable and I was wondering how this is an argument in any way.
no idea what  i  "missed" but yeah discussion is rather pointless at this topic   TFP think top tier should be loot only .. and i just 110% agree with that game is getting better and better  and people whinned about every change  ... diging zombies ... ai pathfinding ... simplified quality from  1-600  .. loot progression ...auger nerf... shotgun nerf....spamcrafting .... combining items...... zombie loot ....

they do good job  game would be mess if they changed things based on minor forum whims

I rarely craft anything nowadays. Crafting more important in every alpha I played before. But that's another topic and the crafting versus looting discussion regarding gear is already offtopic, so I'd like to not engage in a general crafting discussion in this thread.
well then iam afraid you  missing out huge part of game  ...as almost everyone builfs bases    .. horde bases ... ammo ...  armor ... tools ... even more tools  to  milk every duke  from rude trader... all  equipment mods they need

Actually madmole said that he doesn't want crafting to be on par in the endgame. No legendaries for crafting.
i think its completely fine we have complex  craftin system  with so many options and usefull things to do  .. that we simply dont need to craft every single thing in game (and we can still craft all mods)

I've been playing since alpha 15. At that time i used to think, this game is like done. Just finish it already and release it.

Nearly 500 hours later i realize i was so wrong. I hope they never finish this game. It's only gotten so much better with every new alpha. I only play sp and pd.

The progressive loot is a better route imo. Before, i would never get to use a blunderbuss because I'd find 17 pistols in toilets day 1. The bow was nearly useless after a few days. I'd have iron picks by like day 3. Then it gets boring really quick.

I like the new system much better. Only thing i think needs tweaking is the amount of food you find. To me, that's the best part of the game, struggling to find food or medicine while barely surviving. When playing permadeath, the food becomes too easy to find. After a few weeks i have stacks or meat. I know it's a very thin line.
yeah people often complain but thats part of evolution ...

pistols and knives still drop from toilets btw ( probably some weird american custom ? :D)  but only Q1

blunderbuss is nice  fill between guns with ammo requirement .. and more risky melee

hopefully we can get more "sliders" over time  good example is conan exiles with sliders to modify almost everything .. from hunger rate to stamina drain

I think bows would be more interesting to use if sound actually mattered in this game.  Sure you wake up some zombies, but using a gun should draw more, or spawn in a few more behind buildings, or in the buildings (out of player sight) so that the gun has a punishment for using.  Noise draws zombies.  or traditionally they do.  Here firing your gun, making a huge ruckus running around and banging things has little to no impact.  This would have you try to conserve your bullets or have to make a lot more since guns will always draw a crowd.
problem is  most zombies in poi now are  hiden sleepers  that often stay hidden even if you have fun with rocket launcher in next room .. also walkers who wake up wont swarm you ....  they reach you  / puch through  door  .. minutes later  one by one "random spawn" of zombies  outside was hard nerfed in a17 (guess to bandaid worsening perfomance? ) and wandering hordes arent common at all as well (  good old times  when   20+ zombies ambushed you in poi because they walked around)

bows itself are great .. but you wont get compound early now  primitive bow is so awful its not worth using  and wooden bow is very weak as well

Forcing people to play slower doesn't add enjoyment for many.
finding endgame stuff at day  1 may be enjoyable but for very short while in a17 you could easily finished game by day  40 because there was nothing more to loot a18 messed  this with random stats so you needed multiple Q6 to minmax but search for  q6  with  1 more damage than your q6 doesnt really make it rewarding enought

after day  30  roughtly in a18  i just wandered  out randomly  just to find and explore unknown  poi ...  throwing away  99% loot

I do agree the food after a short time isn't an issue, I like what they did do with this alpha regarding better foods give better food value, but at the same time I see why people are complaining too, a can of any food should fill us up, and eating 3 helpings of bacon and eggs to fill yourself up or 10 steaks to get your health to full is a bit much to accept.
thats actually minor issue ... important is only difficulty / hunger   balance if food can give you  5x more  a but you find  5x  less   and beacon will cost  5x more to craft  it will solve your perceived problem .. but change nothing except creating empty kitchens

Even infections become a non threat because you can make your own antibiotics. 
well  day 34 i was infected twice ... and i have  3 stacks of honey and   7-8 antibiotics ( throwing away herbal ones)

infection is barely issue  but thonestly it never was even with old alphas .. you more often died to dog than get infected = giving you over 1+3+24? real time hours to find antibiotic and  1/2  air drops contained 1-3

I've been infected on the first day a couple times, and then my sole focus was on finding items to get rid of it....
yep think  infection should be alot harder to cure ... and lasting so people have to deal with it .. and suffer from debuff ... rather than pop honey instantly

 
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@alanea I'm not for the debuff for infections, they did that the last two alphas it was not fun.  When they had different stages of the infection, that was ok.  Stage one you're sick, get antibiotics, stage 2, stam reduction, stage 3 sever stam penalty... next death.  That seamed reasonable to me.  But the pimps decided to change it to a few terrible decisions, and then to right now which I think is fine... mind you I haven't stayed sick for terribly long, generally was able to find something speed looting to keep it from getting to high and then finally get rid of it.

 
@alanea I'm not for the debuff for infections, they did that the last two alphas it was not fun.  When they had different stages of the infection, that was ok.  Stage one you're sick, get antibiotics, stage 2, stam reduction, stage 3 sever stam penalty... next death.  That seamed reasonable to me.  But the pimps decided to change it to a few terrible decisions, and then to right now which I think is fine... mind you I haven't stayed sick for terribly long, generally was able to find something speed looting to keep it from getting to high and then finally get rid of it.
last two alphas  what?   it was  like that in a13 14 15 16   phase 1 2 3  last  being 24 hours

17 changed it to  1 hour?  then you die  thats it

18 19  keeps that same

 
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@alanea I'm not for the debuff for infections, they did that the last two alphas it was not fun.  When they had different stages of the infection, that was ok.  Stage one you're sick, get antibiotics, stage 2, stam reduction, stage 3 sever stam penalty... next death.  That seamed reasonable to me.  But the pimps decided to change it to a few terrible decisions, and then to right now which I think is fine... mind you I haven't stayed sick for terribly long, generally was able to find something speed looting to keep it from getting to high and then finally get rid of it.
Well, from my experience, I can tell you that there is a stamina regen debuff to infection... and it felt pretty significant.  I couldn't wait to cure it.

 
last two alphas  what?   it was  like that in a13 14 15 16   phase 1 2 3  last  being 24 hours

17 changed it to  1 hour?  then youd ay  thats it

18 19  keeps that same
Sorry, I don't remember being infected for any more than a few minutes in those alphas.  Whenever they put that big debuff  for being infected like you got scratched and BOOM 'oh lordy, I can hardly walk'.  I meant that.  the instant debuff effect. I didn't like that.

Alpha 11-12 when I started, I did get infected and couldn't, for the life of me, find an antibiotic, I even holed up and put all my loot in containers because I thought I was going to die. But then the next stage was just a debuff. 

This game really was the greatest when you had no idea.  Newbs just playing are in for a treat, hopefully they don't watch to many videos that spoil it all.

 
17 changed it to  1 hour?  then youd ay  thats it
The A17 implementation was pretty awful. The short time frame hardly allowed you to take antibiotics if you were not near the base or had antibiotics in your inventory or vehicle. And even then you didn't know if they worked but you only had a chance that they would work. And the debuff of stage 3 was horrific.

The lack of information was the biggest problem. I saw a live stream of Kage848 when he cleared a crack a book and got infected. He had antibiotics in the vehicle but they didn't work and he could do nothing at all but wait. I've never seen him rage like that.

The current implementation is much better. I don't have a problem if they shorten the time frame a bit and increase the debuff. The most important thing is that I know that the antibiotics work and in which situations I have to take which cure.

 
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not rly  option seeing  how close can primitive be to iron  .. even now ...but they can  easily exchange stone to  some kind of rusty / scrap  ... iron is almost as common as stones and wooden pickaxe would be epic fail
Not at all, can be easily done considering all they've done so far.  Just a minor niche level gapping  the crude/primitive stage from the next jump.  That's all.  

 
Shame that I've never felt threatened by the infection -- with 25% loot... I really hope that someday they decide to tie survival elements with difficulty or add an option for them.

I'm glad they'll be moving to zonees that will be gamestage set... I'm hoping.  so example you go to a large military base and the gamestage of that "zone" is 120.
I'd prefer set zones too, but they will supposedly have modifiers. At least I hope that some zones will be GS capped. But if they, for some reason, ever decide to have set GS zones, they also have to make sure it won't be a "run, loot the t6 and die" fest.

 
Laz Man said:
OP, higher reward locations with corresponding difficulty will hopefully address the low level gear in higher difficulty places like army bases.
This is what we need.

 
Solomon said:
Also we dont have a full auto trigger mod, even the burst mod is ridicolous on the weapon already, put on the drum magazine and something for the firerate and we reached a point where it would been better to just create an Uzi ingame.
you may want recheck this one ...  just crafted some mods and noticed full auto mod is clearly in game and craftable

 
nope its not immersive and no one ever said it is .... but if you want loot progression its a must
No, actually it's not. Loot progression was just fine before this looney setup. It used to be that when low level your odds of finding something good was slim. You would find trash items first. Then you might find something level 1 iron. That made sense. Lots and lots of garbage slowly becoming something desirable yet low level. You don't have to have progression locked into a narrow definition.

Also, the immersion level is perspective based. Just because you find absolutely nothing to relate to and connect with means nothing to the rest of us and our experience.

 
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